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Adwords related to SERP position?

Discussion in 'Google AdWords' started by lonewolff, Oct 4, 2009.

  1. #1
    I found an interesting thing this morning.

    My site has been at position 18 in the SERP's for my chosen keyword since my adwords funds depleted three weeks ago.

    I just added $20 and as soon as I did that I jumped to position 14 in the SERP's for the same keyword.

    Co-incidence?
     
    lonewolff, Oct 4, 2009 IP
  2. Lucid Web Marketing

    Lucid Web Marketing Active Member

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    #2
    We've talked about this before. Yes, most of us chalk it up as coincidence. It's normal for your rankings to change. You didn't check your SERP position just before adding the money, did you?
     
    Lucid Web Marketing, Oct 4, 2009 IP
  3. lonewolff

    lonewolff Member

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    #3
    I certainly did check. I was position 18 one minute before I added funds.
    As soon as I hit submit I jumped 4 places.

    Seems more than a co-incidence to me. :)

    [edit]
    And another thing...

    When I first signed up to Google Adsense (2 months ago), I was ~50 in the serps for my whosen keywords. The following day I was #8 on page 1.

    Another co-incidence?
     
    lonewolff, Oct 4, 2009 IP
  4. lonewolff

    lonewolff Member

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    #4
    And yet another thing...

    I have another new site (2 weeks old) that has been sitting around ~150 mark, that has just moved to #45.

    Again, is this just luck?
     
    lonewolff, Oct 4, 2009 IP
  5. cyoung35

    cyoung35 Peon

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    #5
    I don't think it's coincidence as long as your site is half way decent I think Google will reward the people who spend money with them. Just my thoughts from experience.
     
    cyoung35, Oct 4, 2009 IP
  6. lonewolff

    lonewolff Member

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    #6
    That is why I figure too. Why wouldn't they reward those who help keep them in business?
     
    lonewolff, Oct 4, 2009 IP
  7. JHardy_WV

    JHardy_WV Peon

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    #7
    totally wrong - adwords DOES NOT affect your natural listings - trust me on this.

    (apart from the indirect route of more people going to your site via ppc therefore you getting links from people if they post about you on a forum, which ain't gonna really happen)

    The thing about coincidences is that they always seem really coincidental
     
    JHardy_WV, Oct 5, 2009 IP
  8. cyoung35

    cyoung35 Peon

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    #8
    Jhardy WV, Do you have some insight into this that maybe the rest of us don't know? When you say trust me on this, what are you basing your comment on? It makes total sense to me that the search engines would reward the websites that give them 90% of their income. It's just good business if you ask me, and of course they won't admit to it because there would be a lot of controversy and bad publicity for them. I wish someone would actually do a controlled test on this theory, and as far as I'm concerned if they do or if they don't, it's still a theory either way you look at it.
     
    cyoung35, Oct 5, 2009 IP
  9. Lucid Web Marketing

    Lucid Web Marketing Active Member

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    #9
    > I wish someone would actually do a controlled test on this theory, and as far as I'm concerned if they do or if they don't, it's still a theory either way you look at it.

    ???

    So whatever we say or even if we test and prove (or disprove), you still won't accept? You're going to be a hard one to please either way.

    Anyway, FWIW, the system that determines the SERPs and the PPC system are two totally different, separate systems. One cannot and does not affect the other.
     
    Lucid Web Marketing, Oct 5, 2009 IP
  10. cyoung35

    cyoung35 Peon

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    #10
    What I meant was until there is a controlled test it will only be a theory and people will always voice their opinions. I worded that last post wrong.
     
    cyoung35, Oct 5, 2009 IP
  11. magda

    magda Notable Member

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    #11
    Do you really think that if Google were this corrupt - and have no doubt, this is a major corruption you're accusing them of - that with all the eyes of every seo-er in the world on them, it wouldn't have been exposed by now?
    You can find as many people in these forums claiming that adwords harm, as claim that adwords help their position in serps.
    Like this poster who was equally sure that adwords had depressed his position in serps - http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1513847
    Both can't be right.
    Both can be wrong.
     
    magda, Oct 5, 2009 IP
  12. lonewolff

    lonewolff Member

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    #12
    How is it a corruption? It make good business sense. Google is a business, don't forget this.
     
    lonewolff, Oct 6, 2009 IP
  13. JHardy_WV

    JHardy_WV Peon

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    #13
    Just at this moment in time I'm managing over 1 million KWs for one company. They range in position according to profitability, but the vast majority are first page, and the vast majority of those have a Quality Score ranging from 8 to 10. Obviously, we also target these KWs for SEO too, so I have a very large data set at my disposal which I monitor a lot - so I probably have more of an insight than yourself, and all my data says to me that NO, PPC does not affect natural results.

    On top of that, as Magda says, Google have said many many many times that this is the case and this would be a huge fraud if that were not the case.

    There are also many many threads about this on many many threads, and users with larger data sets than mine all concur on this.

    It's essentially one of the few hard and fast rules that Google have - PPC RANKING DOES NOT AFFECT YOUR NATURAL LISTINGS.
     
    JHardy_WV, Oct 6, 2009 IP
  14. lonewolff

    lonewolff Member

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    #14
    lonewolff, Oct 6, 2009 IP
  15. amit-seo

    amit-seo Peon

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    #15
    google does not effect your natural listing on fund or money basis...
    ppc campaign and natural ranking both are quite different......
     
    amit-seo, Oct 6, 2009 IP
  16. textbox

    textbox Guest

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    #16
    I don't think anyone except for Google can 100% say that there is no relation between the two. Let's say there are 1000 factors that go into organic ranking, maybe 1 of those is related to having a ppc account. I agree with lonewolf to a point, but I would hope that any favoritism or goodwill is minimal.
     
    textbox, Oct 6, 2009 IP
  17. ctrlfreak

    ctrlfreak Member

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    #17
    Try logging out of Google and see where you show up in the Serps. It will probably look a lot different once you do so.

    Cheers!
     
    ctrlfreak, Oct 6, 2009 IP
  18. cyoung35

    cyoung35 Peon

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    #18
    Yes, try closing your google adwords accounts and see what happens to your rankings after a month or so. Maybe the adwords help you get your page indexed faster therefore indirectly helping your rankings. Google is a business and a business does what it needs to make the most profit it possibly can. Fraud or not they control most of the internet searches so I highly doubt everyone would boycott them if they found out it was fraud. Just like when a politician tells us "no new taxes" then goes out and raises them anyway. Google is not a democracy, it's a dictatorship just like any other company and I believe it has a little something to do with your natural listings, maybe not much but indirectly possibly. Every one does it, you spend money with staples and they give you vouchers to spend like cash later, why don't they do this for everyone? because they are giving their best customers preferential treatment by giving them discounts not every one can get unless they spend money with them. We all know better and have the choice to do business with them or not so you can choose what to believe or you can choose how to think. Regardless of what someone says at Google they are going to continue to be the leading force in search for a long time and they will continue to do what it takes to make as much money for them and their stock holders...wouldn't you?
     
    cyoung35, Oct 6, 2009 IP
  19. lonewolff

    lonewolff Member

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    #19
    The site has been indexed since March and I didn't use adwords until about August. Once funds depleted, so did our ranking and as I said the other day merely minutes after adding more funds, got an immediate boost in ranking. Co-incidence maybe....

    I have another site that is not tied in to adwords (totally unrelated site). It currently ranks 21 in the SERP's for my chosen keywords. I am thinking of doing a test when I get the chance tonight to see if anything happens to ranking if I advertise on Google. It should be in interesting test one way or the other. I am personally hoping that it will boost my SERP position :) (wouldn't we all)

    Most likely, it shouldn't though. I'll let you guys know later on.
     
    lonewolff, Oct 6, 2009 IP
  20. lonewolff

    lonewolff Member

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    #20
    I just added an a campaign for my other site. I'll let you know if any 'coincidences' occur shortly :)
     
    lonewolff, Oct 7, 2009 IP