Obama Adminstration Selling Guns to Mexican Drug Lords? REALLY???

But it turns out that Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.), the head of the House Oversight Committee and one of Melson's chief critics, was briefed about Operation Fast and Furious last year and did not express any opposition to it at the time.

Issa would have a far stronger standing had he raised objections when first briefed about the program, his lack of knowledge for the details above is more an indication of inept oversite on his part and personal responsibility for his own actions involving the program the same as his accusations against the other officials involved.

 

All governments do it. It's nothing new under Obama. You'd have to be naive to think this doesn't go on. Hell, the feds fly in so much coke there have been cases of planes crashing full of it! Woops!

http://www.narconews.com/Issue48/article2919.html
http://www.narconews.com/Issue48/article2941.html
http://www.narconews.com/Issue49/article2965.html

 

Rebecca, it still remains, THERE WAS NO WAY TO TRACE THE WEAPONS!!!

And we are talking THOUSANDS of automatic weapons. I suspect that the damage done by selling thousands of automatic weapons far outweighed the imaginary tracking of the weapons.

The House hearings seemed to have made a big point about the fact that there was no way to trace the weapons. Along with the problem that nobody has taken responsibility for the idea in the first place.

 

Corwin, I think they can. Read this: National Tracing Center

 

I read the link, and it seems to indicate what common sense would already tell you. For the weapons to be tracked, they would have to fall into the hands of authorities or be registered legitimately. I'm, hard pressed to see how an assault weapon smuggled south of the border is going to come in contact with the authorities again until it is found at the scene of a crime which, as Corwin points out, must be the most idiotic plan on the face of the planet.

[video=youtube;cPXPYI0iRbg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPXPYI0iRbg[/video]

 

Right. Under Operation Fast and Furious, once it's smuggled south of the border, it's gone. At least, until authorities have the weapon, and then, are able to track where it came from.

Nice video.

Edit to add: But, to say there is no way the weapons can be traced, is incorrect (at least to find where they were sold, the purchaser, etc.) It's just that in order to do so, authorities would need to be in possession of them (if found at crime scene or what not) .

 

The "scandal" for this thread has its origin from the "shootout along the Arizona-Mexico border in December" after Border Patrol agent Brian Terry was murdered and that two weapons found on the scene were linked to the “Fast and Furious” program.

Well Corwin, the scandal itself is proof the weapons were traceable.

Also, as pointed out the Cartels have access to unlimited sources for weapon purchases of which even thousands of weapons is minuscule to their availability and most likely only coincidental in their purchases. What would have been unique would have been ATF selling US Assault Riffles rather than the AK47s they sold.

 

That is pretty much what was said at the Congressional testimony. ATF agents that objected to the plan testified that there was not tracking of the guns

If you want to laugh and cry, you have to see how Jon Stewart explains this:
Jon Stewart Botched Operation - Have Guns Will Travel
(isn't it curious that this didn't get much attention until Job Stewart brought it up this week?)


And let's not forget - no one is taking responsibility for this clusterfuck!

 

Issa is trying to deny that. However, after Googling a bit more about him, I'm not so sure if he has a great deal of credibility. Here's a few things I've found about Issa after a brief search. He was caught lying about his duration of military service (almost doubled it), and about the responsibilies he had in the military. In this article it also states he was accused of car theft while serving. Source. Issa has been arrested for Suspected Arson, Intimidation With A Weapon, Auto Theft and Weapons Charges. Source. Here's an article talking about where he verbally attacked four women giving testimony whose family members were murdered. Source. Issa's thoughts on 911: San Diego GOP Rep. Darrell Issa was under siege for suggesting the federal government had already done enough to help New York cope with "a fire" that "simply was an aircraft" hitting the World Trade Center.

 

Who the hell cares??? Attack one of the people criticizing the program? Are you freaking serious? You think that if you attack Issa that the ATF is magically cleared? Are you really trying to sell us that shit? And why are you believing Breeze, who has the credibility of a dead used car salesman? That's why almost no one bothers to reply to him anymore.

Stop the useless ad hominem attack and take a look at the program. Look at the Daily Show. Look at what CNN is saying about this. Stop making excuses. A Federal Agent is dead and no one is taking responsibility for this insane program. ATF agents are testifying that this program made no sense. Will you attack all the ATF agents too???

 

Wow. Corwin, settle down. You seem overly angry. As far as, "Who the hell cares???" - my comment, obviously, wasn't even directed to you. If Breezewood doesn't care, he doesn't need to respond. And, why would I want the ATF to be "magically cleared?" Earlier comments I've made saying it was a "really, really bad idea" and a "really bad plan" should have been your tip off that I'm not supporting Operation Fast & Furious. I'm not trying to "sell you shit", as you so eloquently put it. Out of most of the people in this thread, I'm probably the one with the least of an agenda. As far as your attack on Breezewood, claiming he has the "credibility of a dead used car salesman", that's your personal opinion.

I haven't made an ad hominem attack, at least I don't think so. I mean, you start this thread by saying that the Obama administration is selling guns to Mexican drug lords, so, I dispute that. Then, you bring up Issa, Breezewood responds, and I respond back to Breeze, questioning Issa's credibility, and I think, rightly so. I'm sorry if you find the conversation so disturbing, and can't understand why you would feel the need to tell me to "stop making excuses." I'm not sure what "excuses" you might be referring to. "Will you attack all the ATF agents too???" seems to be a meaningless question, as I'm not in support of Operation Fast & Furious. I have criticized the program itself, but not the individual agents, no.

 

Geez, Rebecca, stop playing the victim.

This was not "a really bad idea" or "a really bad plan". What I'm saying is that this sort of scheme would never had been approved had it gone through conventional channels. It smells of corruption and a coverup.

The ATF cannot decide not to enforce a law, even if it was a sting. Not even the head of the ATF has that authority. To approve a plan of this scope demands and requires letters of consent from the Justice Department (part of the Executive Branch). It requires approval from Attorney General Eric Holder, which begs the question - did Obama approve this plan? Because if Obama did not approve this plan, then this really IS a scandal.

 

You've made numerous attacking statements, along with attributing a particular viewpoint to me that I don't even have. I simply responded back.

 

Just thought I'd post a link to a post I made a while back regarding banks funding Mexican drug cartels: http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1963051

It makes a great further read.

 

This Wikipedia article begins with:
The National Tracing Center (NTC) of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) is a United States' only firearm tracing facility

That's United States Only.

These automatic weapons went to Mexico. The ATF and the FBI do not conduct investigations in Mexico (duh). The Mexican authorities were deliberately not informed.

There was no way to track these automatic weapons once they entered Mexico. The plan itself had no way to track these weapons. No one was tracking these weapons. And no one is taking responsibility for this clusterfuck.

In the end, Mexican drug cartels now have thousands of new automatic weapons, courtesy of the U.S. Department of Justice.

The whole thing stinks.

 

Seems like a fucked up operation turned turtle than a real controversy.. Although people are working head and toe to make it look like one..
Though I have to agree that it was a horrible operation, who ever thought of it passes the GIT with flying marks.. Also, wonder how exactly they thought they will be tracking weapons in Mexico.. Were the weapons bugged or something?
Or had they planned to wait till someone gets killed by one of these then match the shells..
"Hey the shell matches, that's one of ours.. Good job Stan, you found one of the lot.. Too bad you're dead"

Hey, nothing against the movie, it was awesome!!

 

I think it's being politicized (esp. Republican vs. Democrats) a great deal.

Wait a minute. Are you saying "is a United States' only firearm tracing facility" indicates "That's United States Only?" That's amazing, simply amazing. Who would have thunk it? And, people say you can't learn anything from hanging out in P and R. /sarcasm

We've already covered that.

As bad as it is, the straw buyers the ATF was aware of, are most likely, a tiny, drop in the bucket. What really makes it easy for the drug cartels to get their hands on weapons, is our lax gun laws. Not to say I want to make gun laws stricter, just saying. So, I do believe Operation Fast and Furious is a misguided, fail program. With weapons, they shouldn't let them "walk" into the hands of a criminal, even if the intention is to cast a wider net for arrests. However, the programs existence or non-existence would probably make little difference in whether drug cartels are armed in Mexico.

 

That's pretty naive. Because it looks exactly like a corrupt "cash-for-guns-to-Mexico" program. The operation was illegal and conflicted with all known protocol. ATF Agents that objected were threatened with "punishment and retaliation" by their superiors:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...s-sting-that-backfired-on-the-us-2297924.html

Oh, Rebecca, in case you're not keeping score, YOU brought up that "The National Tracing Center", a USA program, could track the guns in Mexico. So direct your sarcasm to yourself, sweetie

That's funny, since BEFORE Operation Fast and Stupid, only 6% of guns used by Mexican drug gangs were American-made.

Would you like to make more shit up?

 

This is a 100% true and happens everyday. However more people buy guns in south america and ship them over to the U.S.A. The guns are sold based on how many kills are on them. Condition then comes into play and scratching the barrel so they can not tell what groves the bullet made.

 

Eeew, don't call me sweetie. I did bring up the National Tracing Center, and said weapons found at crime scenes can be traced. And, so?

If you're going to be making a statistical claim, source?

On FactCheck.org (article: Apr 09) they say the exact number is not known. Obama and Clinton had said 90% of guns in Mexico involved in crimes were from US, but apparently, that was a misunderstanding. It's 90% of the guns sent to us from Mexico for tracing, obviously, not all guns are sent to the US for tracing, which suggests the number is lower. On the right conservative (FOX) they had suggested 17%, but Factcheck said that percentage was too low of an estimate, and explains why.

What have I made up?

Even if I were so inclined, I doubt that I would be as good at it, as you are.