A devoted christian man beat his wife in the front of the kids

Another huge wrong.

The illegal state of Israel is not a democracy, even Israeli's themselves know that:

But yeah, there is no deny that many Middle Eastern countries, are not democratic, and many of them are supported by US and it's tails,

anyway, refer to the so many threads about this subject, but in short, Israel is an occupation power, or a colony, and West always support colonies, as they been themselves colonies in the past here, but been driven out, this is the natural result always to occupation, no matter how long does it take,

at the same time, West support non-democracy, so your reasoning they support Israel cos its democracy, is not true, why then they supported and still support so many dictators in many parts of the world?

 

OK .. so when it comes to Christians you divide in yanks and canadians and when it comes to Muslims you want to throw all of them under the same blanket

and I can't understand that what's the big deal about being a 'democracy' does being a democracy gives you a free for all pass to kill murder and loot and deprive other from their basic rights
and as Imad mentioned .. why is USA supporting all of the monarchs and dictators in ME ?
and what do you mean by sharia law bad ?
why do you want to force people in ME to live under a western style democracy ?
why do you force others to follow your ideology .. you see your problem lies just there .. you claim to be nice good and innocent and tolerant and yet can't allow Muslims to live the way they want and than complain that why are Muslims to hostile towards the west!

you might prefer the western democracy but many Muslims want to live under the laws of their religion and I don't see how anyone can object to this
you may think democracy is good and cool but not everyone has to follow that right ? that is a basic principle of 'democracy' itself

 

Yeah he should have she prolly spends most of his money on junk she wants and puts god on the back burner.

 

Is sharia law bad because it is a law or coming from Muslims? NO.
It is bad because the set of rules that it tries to enforce, is too old and irrelevant to toady's world. The world has come to a degree of civilization that individuals guaranteed a certain level of individual freedoms such dressing the way they like or have sex with who ever they want and no "law" sharia or otherwise have the right or moral authority to deny people such individual freedoms. Before you try the democracy argument and how about if majority wants it, ask yourself would you agree with a law if the majority in west decides to kill all the Muslims? The same way that non Muslims don't have the rights to deny Muslims personal freedoms, the Muslims don't have the right to deny non Muslims their rights.

 

what is good or bad
let them people (in this case Muslims) decide for themselves
just because someone sitting in London feels that something is 'primitive' does not mean that everyone else is bound to feel same
you don;t need to feed and force upon others your brand of 'liberty' and 'modernness'
what is irrelevant or old is not my or your choice, it is choice or people and so says the democracy

 

yeah you could, but it wouldn't be supported by reality like my statement was. Don't let that stop you jew bashing though. If only you had the guts to go and fight for the cause you pretend to give a shit about, you little armchair jihadist you.

 

I have nothing against Muslims decide for themselves. If the Muslim women like to cover themselves or Muslims don't want to have sex, by all means be my guest. The problem with Sharia law or Islam in general is when they try to enforce the values on those who don't want it and don't care about it. Can I as an atheist drink alcohol, my girlfriend wear bikini and have sex when we want under Sharia law? These are basic human rights and no "democracy" or religion should be able to take it away. Do you accept "democracy" if people in England freely vote to kill all the Muslims there?

 

Being pure neutral. I actually agree.
Guys, start threads to make people understand about the religion. I think that is the better way. If people wants to understand or not we can have a discussion there.

 

any male who beats his wife, women or children has no God in him, he is a predator and bully and a whimp, he is not even worthy of being called a man, and to me it doesn't matter what your religion is

He is a sissy and a punk and so is anyone who taught him that this type of behavior was okay, it's not they were wrong.

One adult person can not raise another, thats why we have mothers and fathers and even some of them do not know how to be parents.

 

Here are some more 'such threads' if you never noticed them before.

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1476810

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1533953

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1592778

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1590159

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1551694

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1554492

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1537005

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1421503

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1364513

I think this posts isn't very friendly either because this lady wants to kill all the 1.6 billion Muslims on the planet earth Have you taken any action or is it her right of freedom of speech?? This post is funny you must read it complete.
http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=13614648&postcount=46


Cheer

 

Lets start to post posts which can explain Islam better. True there will always be those in a great opposition frenzy but just take it as a small challenge

 

lol .. I know ..what you utter automatically becomes fact
Don't let that stop you Islam bashing though

Good, that is great if you are ready to give Muslims their just right of self-determination
however if you read the post of OP, he was terming sharia law as some some of menace, which can't be tolerated by him (and west) and this is also the view of most of the Islam bashers who post in P&R
which in a way justifies and means support for the crusades as it means that you are at war with the system which is offered by Islam. Just as was west was at war with communism

 

New, the problem is that I am ready to fight and defend your Imam rights to wear funny clothes (in my opinion funny),right to build what ever they want on their private property (as long as they confirm to building code) and your woman to wear what ever they want to wear but are you ready to fight and defend my rights to drink alcohol and have sex with who ever I want when the Sharia law is enforced?
What you must understand is that democracy is not a simple rule of majority, it has limitation. For example in the western countries right now the economy is bad and the cost of health care is high, do you think we can decide by democratic vote to deny medicin to people over 60 and simply let them die and call it democracy? No, we can not because people have certain rights that over rides the simple majority rule.
The problem with Sharia law or any form of religious government is the simple fact that it denies people their rights and no amount of votes can make this right. Let me ask you this question again, I am ready to fight for your rights, are you ready to fight for my rights?

 

Democracy is not a simple rule of majority, this is true, and Sharia law, is not a simple rule at all, it is complicated and this complicity is not because Muslims or Islam love to make thinks complicated, but because the subjects and issues that deal with it, are so wide, and Islam stresses much the subject of justice,

a part of its complexity is not having the same Sharia law everywhere there are Muslims, because it would be unfair or injustice to use the same laws everywhere, every time, since conditions will not be the same,

not even in the same Islamic state itself, Sharia law was not the only law been used there, there was Sharia law for Muslims, and each minority has its own laws, as long as it does not contradict with common sense of course, as in the example you mentioned about democracy if all England voted to kill Muslims, the same here, non-Muslims can have their own laws, but within limits, because, there is nothing called absolute freedom, else murderers would sue police men for trying to stop them,

I can't speak much about sharia law, I m not the person to speak about it, and I do not think there is anybody on DP who can, for that I need to study Islamic law for like 10 years at least, and before that I of course had to finish some other types of Islamic studies, to be able to judge in a case, this alone should tell you that it is not a simple issue to deal with, but there are some clear things,

You often see some say, Islam punishes who drinks alcohol, which is true, but it is also can be misleading because:

Alcohol is forbidden in Islam, and if any Muslim drinks alcohol, and been caught, then he will be punished, but that does not apply on non-Muslims who live in a Muslim state, they can drink alcohol as long as their religion or laws allows it, without being punished.

more..

drinking alcohol for non-Muslims can be something, and drinking alcohol in public in a Muslim majority community is another thing, having some private-public places or in other words public places like restaurants but only some groups can use it (like Christians, or non-Muslim tourists) where they can drink alcohol, is also another thing, all these three cases and even many more are covered, and its only about alcohol.

 

I understand that you are not an authority in Islam and can not give opinion about Sharia law and therefore I ask your opinion as a Muslim. If in your Islamic country, I would like to declare to be an atheist, and willing to drink alcohol and have sex with a girl without being married, will YOU defend and fight for my rights to be free in believing what ever I want and also publicly admit to it?

 

Yes of course, I will defend and fight for your right to be free in believing what ever you want, you or anybody else, atheist or theist, and I will have no problem in admitting it, nor there was any problem in admitting it in Islam, "there is no compulsion in religion".

And it is not just empty words, or being apologetic, it is a part in Islam, as it was clear in Mohammad pbuh letter:

I know you are not Christian, but this also applies to all non-Muslims:

and this is only an implementation of Qur'an teachings:

You say you understand, but you do not, accuracy is needed here, I have a right to speak on behalf of myself, so do not take it by putting words in my mouth when you say "I understand that you are not an authority in Islam and can not give opinion about Sharia law" because I can give opinions about Sharia law, this is what I been actually doing here, but I can't produce a law, without being qualified, in the same sense as when some can't work as judges without studying law and gain enough experience, and requirements, but that does not mean they can't speak their opinion about the laws.

You have the right to believe whatever you want, and you have the right to declare it, I will not hate you for that.

 

Since you are saying that you believe in my right to think and do what I want and also defend it, I went to an Islamic web site to see what Islam opinion about having sex is and this is what i found:

Islam about adultery

Now my question is that you as Muslim, fight and defend my right to have sex with who ever I want or would you follow quoran (word of God according to your religion)?

 

What you pasted does not apply to you since you are not a Muslim, if you were an atheist in a Muslim state, it does not apply to you too, in the same way Christians under Islamic state were not punished for drinking alcohol or eating pork, despite it is prohibited and punishable for Muslims.

edit: By the way, you are mixing a lot, having sex is not the same as adultery, at least not in Islam view, everybody can have sex, it is even encouraged and not looked at as something disgraceful or a shame, but there are some controls and restrictions, for example, in Islam, sex outside marriage is not allowed, so is in Christianity and Judaism, and they have also set of rules and punishment for adultery, but they do not implement them.

another thing, you asked whether I will defend and fight for your right of belief, then you added that I will defend your right of belief and "do"

do can have big meanings, you need to specify the action, if it was "believe" then yes, if you believe that sex outside marriage is ok, I will defend your right in believing so, if doing sex outside marriage is not allowed for you in somewhere, I will not defend you if you did it, see the difference?

If you are an atheist in a Muslim country where there is a contract between you and the state ( that contract can be something like green card or visa) and you been caught having sex outside marriage, I will defend you, but I will not defend your action, since I believe it is wrong, in the same sense if a Christian been caught drinking alcohol in a Muslim country, there will not be a punishment, but let's assume Muslims there wanted to punish him, I will defend him and fight for his rights, but I will not defend drinking alcohol since I believe it is wrong,

I hope that made sense.

 

Let's make it clear, according to your understanding and opinion about Sharia law, in your Muslim state people should have the following rights:

1) They can deny God and be atheist
2) Since they are not Muslim, they should have the right to drink Alcohol, eat pork and have sex outside of the marriage

and you defend these rights, is this correct?

I noticed that you edited your post by making a difference between believing in something and doing it according to clarification that non Muslims must follow Islamic rules because the government has passed those laws.
Let me ask you this question, according to your religious laws, you should pray 5 time per day, do you think that western countries have the right to forbid Muslims from praying (doing) but they can believe in it as much as they want? How about western countries forbid Muslims women from covering themselves (as partly is done in France) but let them believe in covering themselves as much as they want?

 

No compulsion in religion, is a verse in Qur'an, short and meaningful, and the compulsion is not one-way, its two-ways as you can read, it does not say, let there be no compulsion in becoming a Muslim,

so according to the two points you listed:

1- They can deny God and be atheist: also needs some accuracy here, deny as I understand it, means believe in something and show else, so deny God means, they believe in God but show else, for some reason, but I got your point,

since it is impossible to know what is truly inside somebody's heart, or mind, if some were Muslims and decided to change their religion from Islam to another religion or belief, then they MUST have all the freedom to do so, according to the very clear rule in Islam, that there is no compulsion in religion, they will be advised of course, and given some period of time to think, and given some info and their questions answered if they have any, at the end, if they insisted on changing from Islam to something else, then they will need to declare the new belief, so they can be recorded as followers of that belief, if it was Christianity for example, then they will belong to that group, and to their justice system, unless if they asked specifically to be treated under Islamic rules and laws.

If there was apostasy involved then it is another subject, apostasy in Islam is not just changing religion from Islam to something else, but it is that and added to it participate in some action that will bring harm to Muslims, then they will be punished in that case depending of the kind and amount of the harm they caused.

2- If they are non-Muslims then they are treated depending on their belief and according to their rules and laws as explained before, if they are Christians, they will not be punished for drinking alcohol or eating pork, since Christianity does not punish these things, and since they have their own justice system inside the Islamic state,

if it was sex outside marriage, then they will be punished according to their Christian judges, without interfere from Muslims, you will need to refer to Christian laws for this.

Note that we are talking here about the laws that been followed in Islamic state, or the laws according to Islam, which been followed up to 1700 I think, before this one state become many Muslims states, now each Muslim country has its own laws, some are Islamic and use these laws or some of them but not all, some have violations to Islamic teachings and so on, each in this case must be discussed separately in reference to the general Islamic teachings in Qur'an and the life of the prophet pbuh.

Edit: I forgot the other part which says:

What I said, is that I will defend your rights, but it does not necessarily mean that I defend the actions you did, again, Christians, Jews, any other non-Muslims minority, had all the right to believe in what ever they want, and that's why they had their own justice systems inside the Islamic state, if a Christian wants to drink alcohol, he is not punished for doing so, but that does not mean that me as a Muslim will defend the action of drinking alcohol, I can't contradict my beliefs, I will defend his right in drinking alcohol yeah, but I will not defend drinking alcohol.

so "do" and "believe" are two different things for me, my action "do" in defending his right for drinking alcohol, does not mean I "believe" drinking alcohol is right thing to do.