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'You fascists! What are you doing to us?' Ukrainians despair as Kiev shells East

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by ST12, May 30, 2014.

  1. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #21
    Forget the Ukraine, the people I feel truly bad for are the Russians. Russia is now a defacto dictatorship under the iron rule of "president for life" Putin. At least the people of the Ukraine still have the ability to take up arms against the Russian invaders. "Unsanctioned demonstrations" within Russia, access to forbidden websites, or the wrong type of speech can get you fined hundreds of thousands of rubles or thrown in jail. Gays and minorities are now legally persecuted with regularity.
    SEMrush
    Russians are increasingly living in a closed, totalitarian state. The people here posting against the "evil" democratically elected governments of the US, Canada and Europe, whatever the flaws of those government's may be, probably have very little in their individual lives to be happy about, so blind nationalism fills the void. They are like prison inmates, cheering on their jailers in an act of attempted sodomy.
     
    Obamanation, Jun 2, 2014 IP
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    SEMrush
  2. N_F_S

    N_F_S Active Member

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    #22
    yeah right - "peaceful civilian" tried to shoot a ukrainian border guards base:



    regarding the RT video, they are in a basement, because of these "peaceful civilian" on the roof of houses:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2014
    N_F_S, Jun 2, 2014 IP
  3. N_F_S

    N_F_S Active Member

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    #23
    because Crimea was occupied by russian forces BEFORE referendum, breaking Ukraines sovereignty. that "referendum" is not legit at all.
     
    N_F_S, Jun 2, 2014 IP
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  4. ST12

    ST12 Active Member

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    #24
    With the reunification of Crimea a historical injustice was rectified by the will of the local population in Crimea.

    Who are you to say what is legal or illegal?

    Illegal was the US supported coup in Ukraine. That is what was illegal.
     
    ST12, Jun 2, 2014 IP
  5. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #25
    Who are you to say the vote was legal? Who are you to say the separation was an injustice? You are just a guy living in Encino who doesn't speak very good English.
     
    Obamanation, Jun 2, 2014 IP
  6. uand.eye

    uand.eye Active Member

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    #26
    I'm not saying the referendum was legal, my point is that is hypocritical on one hand to support a military coup to overthrow a democratically elected government, then to say the referendum was illegal, while at the same time citing yourself as a model democracy.
     
    uand.eye, Jun 3, 2014 IP
  7. Karuna17

    Karuna17 Member

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    #27
    Ukrainians with their elections have shown they support the "coup". It's their legitimate power and its heading the country to Europe (making Mr.Putin bloodpoopin:)
    As to "reunification" -- Crimea had been under Greeks, Tatars, Russians, Ukrainians, so it's really difficult to speak about its "historical belonging". Europe had been a calm place since Soviet union breakdown, and Russia's taking Crimea has created a really bad precedent for all the continent's international relations.

    Russia could have taken Eastern Ukraine with brute military force as it had taken Crimea. They didn't. Not because they were not able to, but 'cause they don't really need such an economically and socially unstable region. Putin's support of "protesters" is just an attempt to make Kyiv bleed and to create another Transnistria
     
    Karuna17, Jun 3, 2014 IP
  8. N_F_S

    N_F_S Active Member

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    #28
    you are funny. There are lots of russians in Latvia. Also Latvia was a part of USSR too. Why dont Russia annex Latvia? Because, if russian troops break the border with Latvia, NATO will kick their ass. period.

    do you know where is that "democratically elected government" now? They are all in Russia, so if they were legit and so good why wouldn't they stayed at least in East Ukraine? Even East Ukraine hates them, thats why.
     
    N_F_S, Jun 3, 2014 IP
  9. ST12

    ST12 Active Member

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    #29
    NATO, kicks only the weak, and even then with insufficient success. Talebans are on the rise in Afghanistan, Iraq is in chaos, Libya became a war lord country.

    BTW, it is against any morals and international laws for Russia to go and just annex any territory. You better start reading and reading and reading independent sources to inform yourself on the matter, and you will find out that Russia has not broken any such laws.
     
    ST12, Jun 3, 2014 IP
  10. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #30
    Am I the only one who finds it amusing to see a Russian using failure US' failure to conquer Afghanistan as a put down?

    So you think Russia broke no laws when it ran its military across the border of the Ukraine in Crimea?
     
    Obamanation, Jun 3, 2014 IP
  11. Jameyson MacDonald

    Jameyson MacDonald Well-Known Member

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    #31
    Actually, I said no such thing and you're an idiot if you think I did. Violence is never a good thing and I would never say it is. What I said is that everything that has happened is the result of Putin.
     
    Jameyson MacDonald, Jun 3, 2014 IP
  12. ST12

    ST12 Active Member

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    #32
    Jameyson MacDonaldActive Member

    You don't want to know the truth about Kiev, and the US investment of $5,000,000,000.00 to install vassal government in Ukraine. Check V. Nuland on youtube.com



    It is about who they will put in the future government after removing Yanukovich.
    This fact wouldn't matter for you anyway. You have made up already your mind.

    Anyway the video proves who is behind the mess in Ukraine.
    Victoria Nuland with her "F. the EU" showed how many in Washington think of themselves and everybody else.

    Washington should have banned her from taking position in any office, if they wanted to show the EU that what she did was not how US thinks of EU.


     
    ST12, Jun 4, 2014 IP
  13. YJunK

    YJunK Active Member

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    #33
    I get most of my news first-hand from a friend in Ukraine (just Ukraine, btw, not "the Ukraine"), and it seems like a very great majority of the people supports the new government and is strongly against what they perceive to be a "sneaky Russian invasion". It's not secret that Russia is behind all the chaos in the East, however they are sneaky enough to make it difficult to prove it's THEM doing it. I, myself, think that Russia's being a bit of a bully in this situation, and that's putting it lightly. I don't think there's a middleground in this situation, and either Russia is going to completely get away with this BS, or the repercussions for the whole country will be quite severe.
     
    YJunK, Jun 4, 2014 IP
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  14. ST12

    ST12 Active Member

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    #34
    I never heard of the local Crimea population rising up against Russia. Did you?

    If it is about laws, who's and what laws they broke?
    You only want to know the one sided truth that Obama states. That's it. You talk about law only when it fits you.

    How about breaking the laws in the following independent countries without UN approval.
    Bombing of Serbia, Iraq, Libya causing huge human suffering including hundred of thousand of deaths and hundred of billions of dollars of property destruction?

    How many got killed in the reunification referendum in Crimea, how many buildings were destroyed?

    Man you talking things while you should be keeping quiet.
     
    ST12, Jun 4, 2014 IP
  15. N_F_S

    N_F_S Active Member

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    #35
    what about crimean tatars that gathered in Crimea with ukrainian flags? There are lots of russians in LAtvia, I dont think they will rise up against Russia, so why wouldnt you make a referendum there just like in Crimea?
     
    N_F_S, Jun 4, 2014 IP
  16. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #36
    Are you saying that it is wrong to have a referendum and let the people decide because they make a wrong decision and that is the wrong thing and instead USA has the right to bomb and kill them so they won´t make the wrong decision because it is the right thing? :rolleyes:
     
    gworld, Jun 4, 2014 IP
  17. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #37
    No more than an ant rises up to the human who is about to step on it.


    Entering another sovereign nation with your military is in violation of international law, unless condoned by the UN.

    Educate yourself http://unsmil.unmissions.org/

    Bloodless coups are not uncommon. It doesn't make it any less of a coup.
     
    Obamanation, Jun 4, 2014 IP
  18. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #38
    Are you saying that the fact that they didn´t do any resistance and participated in a referendum and with majority voted happily to join Russia which has improved their lives by increasing their salaries and pensions shows they are ants because they were thinking about what is best for them instead submit to will of the USA?

    Are you trying to condone USA for entering Pakistan and other countries on daily bases? :rolleyes:

    Are you saying that bloodless coups are wrong, but violent coups with bloodbaths like Kiev is OK?
     
    gworld, Jun 5, 2014 IP
  19. N_F_S

    N_F_S Active Member

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    #39
    it is right according to you, so why not start from russian north Caucasus and make referendum there instead of shooting everyone who wants it every week and calling them terrorists? For example, there are only about 0,8% of russians living in Chechnya and Ingushetia, thats even more % of chechens & ingush there than % of russians in Crimea.
     
    N_F_S, Jun 5, 2014 IP
  20. Jameyson MacDonald

    Jameyson MacDonald Well-Known Member

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    #40
    It is most definitely wrong to have a referendum with armed Russians running around ensuring that the referendum is approved.

    You seem to think that everything that happened in Crimea was good and legal and all that, but it wasn't. The only ones in Crimea who wanted it to become part of Russia were the Russians, but those who disagreed were terrified to say so and the ones who did speak out disappeared. How you can say this is all right is beyond me.

    What if Mongolian residents in southern Russia suddenly decided they wanted to join Mongolia, or those of Belarus descent decided the part of Russia they were living in should now be Belarus? Even if they had majority populations in these areas, would they be allowed to hold referendums to join their regions with their "mother country"? Should they be allowed to do so? They should not and I can guarantee Russia would have troops there in a quickness to ensure that such a thing did not happen. Mongolians are not the only residents of southern Russia, and even if they are a majority in some areas, their rights should not trump the rights of Russians living in those areas.

    The same holds true in Crimea. Yes there are 58% Russian living there, but the remaining population is Ukranian and Tatar, neither of which wanted to become citizens of Russia. Why should the wants of 58% be forced on everyone else? But this is not all that is at stake.

    Many countries have residents of other nationalities. What if the Mexican residents in the United States suddenly decided they wanted their homes to be part of Mexico? What if the French residents of Quebec decided that because they make up the majority that Quebec should be part of France? Whenever something like this happens, it gives other people in similar situations hope that they can do likewise and this is wrong and no other nation would tolerate this, including Russia.

    While the Russians in Ukraine could have left and moved to Russia if they wanted to be Russian citizens, the Ukranians and Tatars living in Crimea had no choice in the matter. The Russian residents of Crimea were descendants of immigrants, while the Ukranians and Tatars were not. The NON-natives have forced their will on natives in Crimea and only someone of Russian descent can look at it and say it's okay.
     
    Jameyson MacDonald, Jun 5, 2014 IP
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