Yet another thread about: Is Islam a violent religion?

i have to get back to you later. just leave you with a thought. we are all of human race. no one has any right over another.
this is not just politically correct. this is jut correct.
ps. when you are so close you don't see the whole picture.

 

Lived in Switzerland in the recent 4 years when I did my phD. It was indeed interesting to see the event from the eyes of the Swiss.

 

Islam means submission for The Peace.

No doubt, the Peace is Above all.

The criminals wheather they are muslims or non muslims will be destroyed.

 

That's like hybrid cars: both gasoline and green energy.
So this is the environmental friendly interpretation of islam, instead of "submission" or "peace" why not "submission for peace?"
Very good Polite teen my dear quran teacher!

 

Pizzaman, you still around?

I have a question for you.
Why, in your opinion, is Iran calling and acting for the destruction of Israel?
Please provide the most important reason and why you think this is the main reason.

 

this i a very simple question to answer.
US and the rest of the world have put pressure on the iranian govt since its creation.particularly at the beginning of iraq war, both bush and sharon were talking about a regime change in iran one way or another. iranian govt for its survival needed proxies and friends, in particular around israel and the rest of ME. so by saying things like that, it tries to gain support from other radicals in the rest of the muslem world. hence increasing the cost of any attack on itself.
by the way. i am hoping to change your mind and show you how illogical and unproductive your way of thinking is.

 

beeep ... wrong answer again pizzaman...
"when you are so close you don't see the whole picture.", but also "when you are so far you don't see the picture at all"

u're implying that Iran is just "saying" it is not doing everything it can, every minute and every day, to kill as many Israelis as it can and even hurt the world's jews? I didn't see anything about "doing" in your post.
hmmmmmm...... ?
99.9% of the weapons pointed at Israel at any point of time by the hamas, hizbollah, syria, and whatever, were manufactured, shipped, and financed by Iran. If you didn't know that yet, welcome. my pleasure.

that was the consequence my friend, not the result.... the Iranis acted against Israel even before the first gulf war. They started to seek Israels destruction at dawn of the first day after the 77 revolution. They were always the no.1 financier of palestinian terror, but never a fanancier of Palestinian schools, doctors, or infrastructure. Why? the reason is below. Just in case, before you even DARE argue that the Iranians give a damn about the Palestians, google and find about the discrimination and prosecutions of the arab (=palestinias are arabs) minority living in northern Iran.

Sorry my friend, you do not understand the middle east at all. The most important country in the region is Egypt. The classical Sunni-Shiite rivalry between Egypt and Iran was upgraded to a degree of "Hate" couple of months ago, after Egyptians found out that Iran was trying to perform terror attacks on the Egyptian mainland.
Jordan has a peace treaty with Israel, so they can't help Iran either. Syria still didn't quite decide where they stand, with obama or with achmedinjad. And Turkey is a great ally and friend of Israel. Iran have no friends except hugo chavez. Bombing the world jewry will certainly earn them no extra friends except ThraXed.
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htterr/articles/20090820.aspx
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2009/04/egypt-hizbollah-dismissed-as-terrorist.html
Following the failed bombing attempt unveiled in Egypt, the Israeli-Egyptian relations in the recent 3 months are the warmest I have seen in my lifetime. That's a story for another thread maybe.

Everything you said is simply not consistent with the reality.
Here's the sad reality:

Iran and Israel were best of friends before the 77 revolution. The revolution changed that because of a VERY simple thing, a.k.a "the religion of peace", that turned from something private and intimate to a state-law:

Iran of 1977-2009 is a dark and poor fundamental Islamic dictatorship. The "rules and wishes of god", as the Dictator of Iran and his Gang interpret them, are the rules of the state. No exceptions. No excuses.

These include:
1) Enprisonment for 10 years for a woman who marries without her father's permission.
2) Death penalty for anybody who marries a non-muslim, anywhere on the globe.
3) Death penalty for gays.
4) Beatings and amputations etc' for robbers, theives, etc'
etc'
etc'
etc'
In the same set of principles, there is another one, just as holy as the ones I named before:
543452) The whole land of Israel (Palestine), in view of the Islam of Iran, belongs to the Muslims. It is an Islamic Waqf.

Just as sections 1+4 are fulfilled in Iran without any compromise or merci or remorse (remember: the words of god), so is section 543452. Israel get no special treatment than gays get. Gays must die and burn in hell = Israel must be wiped out. The Iranians are developing nuclear weapons and are not even trying to fool you what the nuclear weapons are for- they declare: "this is for Israel". Until all Israelis will convert to Islam or exile themselves, the Iranis will fight them with the goal of Israel's total annihilation. NOTHING political that will happen in the middle east could possibly change it - god's will is not for humans to question!. Understand?

I am glad you attended this very basic introduction to middle east politics. It is my mission to help westerns understand better. This is why I'm here. Unlike ThraXed new imad etc' it is not in order to spead lies and hate and encourage westerns to convert to Islam.

To conclude: Iran's seeking to destroy Israel has one core reason (beside the negligible and circumstancial ones you hold for the core reason), and that is: their extreme fundamental shiite interpretation of the "religion of peace" rules out any possibility that my country has a right to exist, in any format. Unfortunately.

 

blah blah blah.
you look at things with this pair of glasses that makes everything look funny.
if you think iranian govt does things based on religion you are crazy. everything they do is calculated and logical. what they say is also calculated.
that is the exact reason why US and israel have been so unsuccessful in dealing with them.Bush and israelis have misread them for the past 8 years or so.
here is some interesting read if you love politics

i do not agree with everything here but it is not a total nonsense.
http://www.iranian.com/Opinion/2006/October/Biblical/index.html

 

So this is what happened in previous posts:
I asked a question. You give me an explanation. After killing your explanation with excerpts from reality, and giving a better alternative explanation, you stick to your original explanation, this time using the following reasoning:
1) blah blah blah.
2) you look at things with this pair of glasses that makes everything look funny.

But offcourse! Bombing of the jewish community center in Bueno Aires was very "calculated" and "logical". The dictator and his gang (did you follow the links?) are actually western-loving party animals. All this islam thing, is just a show. Holliwood. The dresses they wear is just P&R. when the cameras are off, they organized huge orgies with a lot of booz. Now holocaust denial - that was the most logical and calculated thing. They earned a lot of respect worldwide.

So yea. Israel sold weapons to Iran in the Iraq-Iran war. Lets keep the 80's out. It is a more advanced subject. Other than that, I don't see how the article relates to 2009 and my question.
Here's a second chance. Just try to refute my argument. Either directly but killing my reasoning (as I did to you in previous post), or indirectly by suggesting a serious alternative of any kind:
1) If they are bluffing that they are after the destruction of Israel, What is the REAL goal the Iranis are after? and why? remember - they have NO friends in the middle east anymore (except Syria, maybe, at least until US dollars comes for a peace treaty with Israel)
2) Explain how bombing civilian jewish buildings in Buenos Aires serves the real goals of Iranis from 1)

............................... looking forward................................................. a new mideast specialist on DP. its a pleasure.

 

the point is that they do not do things because of religion. they do it for political advantage.
they say what they say and what they do according to their political goals, not because of some religious belief. they made deals with Israel when it was good for them although they were saying anti israel things at the same time.
as far a the incident that you are talkng about, i do not remember now, but i guarantee it had some political advantage for them,t the time

 

I am not stupid. I understood what you said.
But my problem is that you say it like a religious preacher, you do not explain and demonstrate what you say. It is hence worthless.
My point is that they do things because of religion. I supplied a framework of ideas and events which support that. You understood everything I say.

If you argue that its something else, you should say what it is actually, and what are the signs that tell you are right.
In case you expected my to trust you like a messenger of god, sorry to disappoint you. It will be a bit harder to convince me that i'm wrong. U'll have to do more than quote some irrelevant article.

The middle east is not a hobby that I do half an hour a day pizzaman. I live here, its my life. I had a 6 year military service, I am engaged in political and I speak all the languages of the region and know pretty much about the history, religion, customs, and the cultures of all the major players. Nobody heard of the Shabak people until I mentioned them, not so? I can't afford the luxury that americans can: just switch to baseball when i'm tired of it and forget all about it. It comes knocking on my door everyday.
Don't be so sure that you do know better than I do about the middle east.

You do have a religion. This is the american Ideaology.
"all groups of people are equal contribute equally to humanity and operate from the same motives."
"all people mean only good".

And your explanations are just as good as the explanations of the religious preachers, so far. But maybe u'll surprise me next post.

 

there are 1.3 to 1.8 billion muslems according to wiki
an there are 13 to 18 million jewish
so roughly there are 100 muslems for every jewish person.
then that 300 jewish person is equivalent of 30,000 muslems.
why don't you use your own logi

 

GOOD! Now U're Talking! Its all about numbers!

If there were only 30,000 muslims who are violent, you were right.

The problem:
30,000 muslems is nothing. Less than the amount of armed men Hamas in Gaza have. If you know what Hamas is, you should know that each and every one of them will "get rid" of his sister if she had sex with a married man.
So how about... 15 million? 0.1%. Sounds like a reasonable number. Just to settle your ear, I would have the nerves to say AT LEAST that 15 million men in around the globe today will kill their sister "if necessary", kill you if you dare insult the prophet or write a "discrediting" movie about Islam (remeber the dutch director?) etc'. Thats All. No other religious group has so many people prepared to act with violence for any reason. This is all i'm saying!

More numbers, to Illustrate:
At every moment there are dozens of thousands of muslims who train in Iran and Pakistan to be "mujahideen" and "fight the crusaders".
In practice, there are ~20 honor killings every day worldwide. A Hebron massacre every day. And in Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and many other muslim countries, it is perfectly legal!!! You can't be serious and continue to argue that this is a part of a peaceful religion.
The pictures of blood from the Ashoura shiite ceremony in the other thread you saw already? is this a peaceful civilized ceremony? http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=12300363&postcount=21

it IS all about numbers. in overall, and in relative numbers, Muslims just practice more violence around the globe everyday. that's all. plain and simple dry mathematics, facts. Refer to the "political events" table again to refresh your memory about the incomparable frequency of religious-motivated events.

Just watch the members of the religion of peace on DP and see the reflection of the violent intolerant and full of hatred education they received in their posts. And image that these are the elite of the society! You think that imad will not butcher his sister if according to his interpretation of his religion, this is his duty? I doubt it. Maybe yes.

Sum everything up. use your logi!

Seems you give up on Iran. Your apology is accepted. It was just another example. I believe I provided more than enough examples already. I presume you finally agree that their hate to Israel is only due to religious reasons? no other reason could make sense! we did nothing to harm or offend them. For Israel, every friend is a treasure. we don't dump friends. If you think there is another reason that Iran calls for the destruction of Israel, bearing in mind that they have no friends in the area who they try to "seduce", name it!

Islam can not be called "the religion of peace" simply due to the FACT that Muslims are world champions in being responsible for violent events of all kinds! more than any other religion or group.

 

i have nothing more to say on this subject.
we can agree to disagree

 

done deal

 

Hhhmmm. I think you need a history refresher course. In the above post you mention the 1977 Iranian revolution several times. In my history book the revolution was 1979 NOT '77

 

of course. my mistake.

 

As always