I understand that science is based on the senses. It then begs the question whether one believes there is anything beyond them. Since anyone's guess is as accurate as anyone else's, it's the reason why I stick to believing science, even if this does mean it's flawed in the grand scheme of things, because it's the only thing we can be sure of within our reality - narrow or not. I'm very interested in alternative views, cheers for the link.
i was reasoning with you in our conversations and i was leaning towards atheism more but when you threw away the entire conversation with demonstrating how much you weighed it in your thought, it set me back. wouldn't that designer be God to some? here is a thought about intelligent design and evolution.  Was God so involved with the creating of animals and plants that he would make so many varieties of them?  did he design every known species of plants and animals and their variations?  did he paint that detailed of a picture?
Let's stone the devil worshipers to death!! Or burn them alive!! That's what they did and even doing these days.. So much for science and logic!!
You are welcome. The suggestion that DNA was a "language" in the strictest sense was an eye-opener for me. I have one more tool to put in our discussion; ability. I use it quite often to make people ponder how in the world ( pardon the pun ) people will ever be able to recognize the truth once it arrives. ? The truth can arrive, but if a person has no ability to see it, hear it, enjoy it, etc... it will never be the truth FOR THEM. But... surely there are such things as "absolute truth" ? The truth is true even if only one man believes it, right ? Oohh... so subjective here For example, our eyes are not sensitive enough to see infrared rays. Infrared is just a small wavelength above normal vision. It exists, even if we never see it. Science gave us infrared goggles that amazingly allow us to "see" in the dark. Infrared exists, but you could never prove it to anyone without the goggles, and even then there would be some honest questions being asked. What is needed to be able to recognize truth ( especially absolute truth ) every time it comes our way ? Denying it exists is the same as denying that infrared exists, just because we can not see it with our human eyes. Common sense, Brum, common sense.
Well I have to say Blue Star, I listened to the full audio cast. It was extremely interesting. It has made me consider other possibilities and being from a programming background I can relate a lot to what he says. I also like that he gives credit when due, i.e. accepting natural selection is indeed true and well documented. I've heard and read even mainstream references to DNA as being a language before, but not in the depth he gave. I found fascinating his point on information being utterly abstract and existing only through consciousness. I can see some of these ideas may have influenced Icke. I've come across the problems with random mutations before too. I think this is the biggest problem evolutionary proponents face. Despite all this, while his ideas are great and even possibly irrefutable, there is still a void to explain how this code came about, so I don't agree that it is proof of "god", necessarily. Its origin is anyone's guess in my opinion. There are very few, if any, absolute truths in my opinion. Even logic itself is subjective when given the appropriate situation. I like the rather nihilistic quote: "The only truth is that there is no truth". This is not as oxymoronic as it may first appear when logic itself is not law. I suppose an element of relativity can be applied. If one strongly believes something to be absolute, then, like you say, it could be considered absolute for him. About infra red, we can view it through technology which brings it to within our senses. A deity on the other hand is not as simple.
It is at this point that people make the "leap of faith". But if it is guided by "common sense" the right choice is made. It is apparent that time and chance are happening all over the place, but nothing good is being created from these events. In fact, the world, just as you noted about the DNA, is experiencing damage not advances, because of these random occurences. Everyone has to make their own decisions. If you did not exist, the same world would still be here. Same goes for me. Absolute truth therefore exists, because it exists outside of man's volition and experiences. I say so. ( Said with a smile. )
Excuse me sir, but First of all, Infrared is any wavelength longer than visible light to human. Its not 'just a small wavelength above normal vision', any wavelength that is longer than visible light, is Infrared. Also You don't need some high tech goggles to see infra red, just take any digital camera, no matter which, get the cheapest you can find (even webcam) and look through it, you can see infra red light. 2nd, yes I get your point, it's hard (hard but not impossible) to believe that infrared exists without seeing it. But then again by definition infrared is relative to visible light. If we can prove that visible light exists, its proven that infrared exists as well and so does ultraviolet. How is denying that God exists same as denying infrared exists? Nothing relative to god exists (You may imagine the relation that hey, universe exists thus God exists).. No matter what Goggle or device you use, you can not prove that God exists. Now if ever, by any means, I can see the God, I'll have no problem accepting that yes, God exists..
Hey.. "sir" is not me.. I am a regular person I said : I was not explicitly applying this to the existence of God, but it could be used that way. Getting beyond the normal to the "paranormal" is going to be hard for many people I think. Infrared and God are both in the paranormal category... if you would allow me to use the word that way. For your question, denying that something exists just because you can not see it is a problem with pride. A popular question I try to help atheists with is : If you and I both knew 100 percent of everything, and you knew 50 percent and I knew 50 percent, could God exist in my 50 percent ? I change up the numbers of the question to make me know just one percent and the other person 99 percent. The answer for the question is a clear; "Yes it is possible for God to exist in your one percent.". But for a person to proclaim that they know 99 percent of EVERYTHING is pure pride. It is unreasonable, and atheists want to be known as reasonable people. Anyway. No, I am assuming there is no one in this thread that can prove to you that because we exist, therefore God exists. As you said, it is hard but not impossible to believe that infrared exists without seeing it. It is a choice, a "leap of faith".
Ohh well, that's just a figure of speech.. No, It's not a matter of pride.. It's the matter of logical acceptance.. I may accept something that 'I' can not/do not explicitly see, if its proven that it does exist. For example I have not seen an atom my entire life, but I accept that it exists because its a proven fact. As far as Infrared goes, I have seen it in action, worked with it, played with it, used it, using it in my daily life. If anyone questions the existence of Infrared, I can easily prove it. Yes why not, because If you know something even if its 1% of the whole knowledge, its still a fact. So if you know that God exists, its becomes a fact. But then you can prove everything that you know for a fact. Now do you know that God exists? Nope.. You believe that God exists. It's not a fact, not a knowledge. It's just what it is, a belief. There is no physical or relative evidence supporting it. It can not be observed, it can only be assumed. That assumption may or may not be true. So yes, we can safely assume that there is a tiny remote chance that God exists. But since there is no evidence supporting it, greater chance is that this assumption is false. No, no atheist claims that he knows 99% of Everything. We claim that 100% of what we know is actually a knowledge. There is a great difference between two. We choose to base our belief on known facts (Most of the science) and theories backed by evidence (such as evolution and natural selection). We just refuse to believe in pure assumptions with absolutely no evidence backing it up. You may call it unreasonable within you reasons. But calling it unreasonable is quite unreasonable and even ridiculous, if you ask me.. You missed the point completely mate. Yes it's hard to believe that infrared exists, but if you question it's existence, I can prove that it does exist. That's not the case with God (or any paranormal entity)
I don't think 'climate change' itself is a scam. As a gardener of many years the seasons are about a month early it seems to me these days. What i'm not sure on is the cause. I have wondered if all those atom bomb tests might have moved us off our axis but how do I find an answer to that?
Forget about God - your own morals are all that is required for your Proof. ??? Can you prove the Universe Exists, Has Always Been and that it is Everlasting? And that life only exists in a Physiological Form.  Â
What is proof for you is not enough proof for others. On the flip side, some people can be presented with enough facts to make a logical conclusion, but they fail to do so. Others are presented with tons more information and knowledge to make a right decision, and refuse to do so, because of their beliefs ( religion ). Anyone may accept things as long as it coincides with their own views. What do you use to discern that people are telling the truth to you ? That depends on your perspective. At the end of the day people believe what they WANT to believe... It looks like you want to believe that God does not exist. You will not be able to prove that God does not exist right ? It is a moot discussion. You mentioned life... what exactly is life anyway ? I could go on and on, but again, people believe what they want to believe. Some try to push their beliefs on others and when they cant, they start insulting them. For those types of people, they would be better to stay out of the politics and religion forum. If an atheist does preach to others that God does not exist, they are in fact declaring themselves to have some kind of personal experience in the matter. How did you find out that God does not exist ? How will you prove that to others ? What if they do not believe you ? Will you end up insulting them because they need to be "culled" from society as "dead weight" in the tree of DNA ? Evolution breeds bad character in people. It makes people think they are more important than they should be, and allows them to look down on others... and who needs that ? All this pandemonium from a theory that has never become a law. That is a true waste of time and because of this I will be unsubscribing. If you want to answer, PM me. The person who does know that God exists is also declaring they have some personal experience in the matter. I would love to go into the lives of some of the first scientists ( such as Bacon ) and why they began their journey for a search for truth. I do not have time. You can not prove to me that infrared exists without some sort of machine. My body will not accept it. I can see your TV clicker and just tell you that you are a magician. There is no proof that infrared exists without an external input. Here is a challenge. Go to the jungles of the Amazon to one of those untouched tribes and convince them infrared exists. You are not allowed to take a machine... Good luck ! One last time... people believe what they want to believe. End of debate.
Morals are just a perspective.. It changes human to human... My morals say I should not kill anyone, I should not rape anyone regardless of their belief, race or religion.. Taliban or Klu Klux Klan, for example, don't share my morals.. Where is the fact, where is the proof? I have never been presented with facts or proofs regarding god's existence.. Your beliefs are not facts or proof.. haha classic... Can you prove that Three headed clown monster does not exist? Can you prove that flying Spaghetti monsters don't exist? If I claim that universe was made by a three headed clown monster, can you prove me wrong? Lets say hypothetically that God exists, now there are hundreds of different religions on this earth. So which god exists and how many gods exist? Is Christian's God real or is it Muslim's? May be a Hindu's 100 different gods are real? Ahh may be Sikhs are right, their God is real. Then what about Jews? Or probably my three headed clown monster God is real!! Or may be my friend rabbit's Flying Spaghetti Monsters are real.. What is your basis to claim that YOUR god is real, YOUR book is the real deal? Yes it is a moot discussion because when you choose to believe in an assumed, unseen, unheard, non-existent super being based on popular beliefs and stories, logical arguments lose their place.. There can't be a discussion at all.. I don't think that I insult anyone just because they do not believe in what I believe.. I've been insulted quite a few times by the likes of Apoc and IsraeI on the other hand.. Ironic at the least, hypocrisy at the best. They are believers, so they should have a higher morals than me... May their Gods forgive their souls for they have committed the sin, because my Three headed clown monster God wont.. Mate, can you prove that Santa Clause is not real.. Tooth Fairy does not exist? Harry Potter is just a story? Cats are not evil aliens from outer space? Its impossible to prove assumptions wrong or right.. What if I tell you that Wizardry world is real, there is actually an invisible school for wizards and witches. There is a whole world of them hidden from us. Would you call me crazy? Or would you believe me? Again, I don't insult people who do not believe in what I believe, heck I don't even insult people who insult me.. So I have no idea why you telling that to me.. What personal experience? Hallucination? Delusion? Just so you know, hearing voices in head is not a good sign. Its often caused by Schizophrenia.. Let me point my high power infrared laser on you, and see if your body accepts it!! Just kidding.. Not easy, but not impossible.. It may take time to educate them.. It's not hard to prove the existence of infra red, because existence of visible light is a fact. infra red is just relative to visible light. (Provided they don't cook me and eat me) Golden words, not end of debate however. If even 1 in 100,000 turns out to be a Clinton. Our hidden agenda, the evil plan of world domination comes one step closer to success.. *Insert an evil laugh here*
It changes human to human... My morals say.... I believe that is the point, your "Life" is separate from your Physiological form, your present state of existence. Your Life that is different than others can exist in some other form. Transition is possible. Transition to the Outerworld of the Everlasting. As a viable goal for those willing to accomplish it.
Well why do you kill for profit? Look in your dinner plate , you have no idea how many got killed to make sure you have a morning stool. Oh but I guess you were talking only about humanoid animals? Everyone else sure as hell can be killed for profit or pleasure. Right? That's because they can't lock you up or revenge themselves by putting your pious ass in the grave. That is the only reason.
I can't speak on your behalf, but reprisal and repercussions are certainly not the only reason why I don't kill unjustly. I hold no religious values but I'm just as moral and have as much a conscience as anyone else.
it's like cannibalism, there aren't many animals out there that eat there own kind. Â others animals out there do no kill there own kind, they kill for food or for pack leadership.