Yes, opening eyes means not believing in a particular myth that you happened to have been brainwashed with at a young age, that is really too silly to not be able to see that obvious trick of the mind.. That the human mind is prone to religious belief, of course that's true. Do it mean that religions are true? Of course not, and by the way which one of all the religions should be the true one? Come on. Anyway, it's not even an interesting argument nowadays, just like those wanting to argue with evolution, honestly it is tiring, so don't do the surprised when people simply call you names like stupid, becaus ehonestly that's all that's left to it really, if people are too stupid or insecure to accept life as it is, without the myths, then so be it, but their beliefs don't deserve any respect, they should be ridiculized and that's it. Now of course people can get violent to defend their stupid beliefs, well they should be punished for any violence, there's no justification of violence to defend one's stupid beliefs. So you see, more and more people get fed up with the myths.. It's so obvious that they are just beliefs, personally I would be all for protection of children from "religious education" just like they're protected from "sexual education". Just wait for the children to be old enough to think critically, maybe 11 or 13 years old. Then introduce them to religion if you want and see their reaction of laughter!
the parables in the bible are meant to help people about God, it doesn't mean that it has to be true to be convincing. Â moses parted the red seas? yeah right but who cares, what a story. Consider that. do you think most religious people believe that moses parted the red sea? Â it helps convince some but others appreciate the concept of God as being something, based on numbers, influence, duration, popularity. Â it is something.
I think each to their own and agree on zero tolerance for "unwanted" violence (some like to be hurt) against others. I personally think there's still a lot we don't know and much to (re)learn. I believe there is a "force" controlling karma that i'm happy to call God. We all use the force for good and bad though many don't realise it. I believe we are all connected and can manipulate each other based on thoughts alone. I have seen this over and over. Do you believe in anything supernatural? 4th dimension, UFOs etc.. anything that could be considered even slightly kooky?
Thanks I think I might have watched bits and peaces of those videos. I'll take another look. I was homeschooled from k to 12 and my parents pushed Christianity like we were going to drop dead if we didn't believe in God. I have no lasting bitterness, besides some mild frustration, towards them. They showed me their way, I eventually chose what made sense to me later on. My parents are the typical extreme Bible believers, using the same logic a lot of the posters use here. I guess not everyone who's indoctrined from birth ends up pounding the same beliefs into adulthood(I heard a stat of 1 out of 12, but seems too high.) Yeah, glad to say I no longer believe in creators, or angels, or NDEs, or ghosts or magical laws of attraction. It really has nothing to do with how I would want it. The point here was, it doesn't make logical sense. How can you prove or disprove a god completely? First you can't per se prove that a god doesn't exist any more than you can disprove that magical pink and yellow faries exist. If there's a significant lack of real evidence that they DO exist, then we can safely say that they don't, until further evidence proves otherwise. And we can't be 100% certain ether way. Most of your post(the parts I didn't quote) just repeats "God is God so he can do whatever he wants." I'm no longer going to address this area. My point was that it doesn't follow basic logic. That's all I really care to say about it. I don't know what else I could say that would make it worth anyone's time. And vice versa. And you know what? It's ok. In fact, it's necessary. It's nearly impossible to have a discussion like this and not step on someone's beliefs or hurt someone's feelings. If I say, "X belief is wrong" and you get offended, I'm really not concerned. The point was that "X belief is wrong" and if I have to explain why and how people believe it, and that offends you, then ok fine. The point was the truth, and not to appease anyone. If your religion is causing your eyes to be closed then yes. Religion is mainly based on myth, fear, false promises, etc. so it would only make sense that detaching from religion is apart of opening your eyes. Yes, lack of logic does confuse me. Lol, only a small percentage of the world is deluted by arrogance and pride? They must move around alot, because I bump into them often... As for the inclination to believe in God, there's an evolutionary answer for that. It's a need that we out grow as he hit adulthood. Again, I wasn't saying 90+% of the world can't use their brains, it would be a smaller percentage than that. I was saying the main factors were upbringing and social pressure. Then there are some that just haven't taken the time to dive into what they really believe. And...some people are agnostics and don't really know what they believe yet. Yes yes, it is getting a little old. If it's not true and convincing I'm not going to devote my life, time and energy to it. The point is, living life based on what IS true and convincing. As for the "numbers." The numbers of people who still believe in a creator means as much as the numbers of people who believed the earth was flat 200+ years ago. Duration means nothing either, bad ideas can stand the test of time, just like any other ideas. Influence, I'm not sure what influence has to do with it either. Hitler had a lot of influence in spreading his lies.
Reason why the world is messed-up not enough of free of thinkers around. World would be a kinder place if it was the other way around.
There are those that want to be "God-like", are they not logical? or is not a logical issue? that's the point, dismissing the existence of God and saying that there has to be a God are not appropriate. i'll sum up by saying that "it doesn't follow basic logic" is a little condescending. you should hear these arguments back and forth.  they are so cookie cutter like.  the atheist ad hominem responses and the religious "you must this, that and the other thing" responses are so strangely simple i wonder if either side understand what they are representing? how do you know if religion is causing your eyes to be blind?  i went to church alot went i was younger and hearing the "myth, fear, false promises, etc." did not impress me enough where i would follow God blindly, but it is not hard for me to acknowledge that God could exist. the bible is a guide.  it's not the basis of devoting your life, time and energy. "As for the "numbers." The numbers of people who still believe in a creator means as much as the numbers of people who believed the earth was flat 200+ years ago." after finding out that the world is flat, how many believe that the world is flat now? not many in proportion now then back then. after science proved alot of things, how many stopped believing in God, not many. "Duration means nothing either, bad ideas can stand the test of time, just like any other ideas." but not as long as religion has so far, wow.  there was an archiological find that showed cavemen buried there dead, possibly demonstrating that they believed in an after-life. "Influence, I'm not sure what influence has to do with it either. Hitler had a lot of influence in spreading his lies." hitler was stopped.  he was a blip on the screen in comparison to how religion influence people.
To strive to attain omnipotence, the ability to know all, see all, answer prayers, count sins and so on of over 6 billion people and watching over all nature, including the cosmos, is illogical. We usually call these people delusional. I didn't say there is a God, I said being unable to disprove a claim is not the same as saying the claim is true. Just like not being able to disprove a claim that an invisible teapot orbiting earth is not confirming that the claim is true. Our lack of evidence to support the claim justifies us in disbelieving it, until there is some conclusive evidence. It would be condescending if I wouldn't have previously explained why it's illogical a number of times in my last few threads. Otherwise it merely reaffirms. We're using the insight we've accumulated over the course of our lifetimes so far. We're representing our own beliefs, what we've managed to grasp so far. If we can't grasp it, we don't pretend to know or just say "God did it." Maybe the cookie cutter responses are a result of the same old questions. Curious to ask, what factors led to you that conclusion? Aside from the stories, if a guide isn't based on truth, who's it meant to guide? I would think following a truthful guide is important. There is no eternal damnation for not believing the earth is flat. Religion is a clever trap. It gets passed along by people afraid their kids and loved ones are going to hell, or that they're going to suffer God's rath for not passing the word along and being hopelessly convinced. That could be one of the reasons. There's also the smell, respect for the dead, etc. This brings up an interesting point. Aren't Cavemen lesser evolved humans? In which stage of man's evolutionary cycle did God add souls or the gift of eternal life? You're right about the Hitler part. However being influential does not require being truthful or having good intentions in mind. Again, influenced can be gained by the carrot and stick, hell, heaven, etc.
The Garden we live in is proof of Creation and the Architecture that transcends its inhabitants is its Guiding life.
Faith (belief without evidence) is hit and miss. I mean once you know if it's true or false it's no longer faith, but knowelage. How can you claim that that one faith is truer than another, unless you have evidence for it? Complexity does not have to mean intellegence. Humans use this limited frame of mind: We create stuff that looks intellegently designed, that means our universe is intellegently designed. *sigh* Starting to feel like this thread is soon reaching the end of its purpose. I don't even want to bother with arguments like "Islam is the only true faith," or "God exists because how are we here?" People just make crazy claims and expect us to say, "hmm, you know what? That really makes sense." or "God sent his only son...Wait what, where do I sign up?" Like are you serious? If you're going to make a claim, please back it up with evidence. We all like to believe in mysterious things. Ghosts, underwater monsters, UFOs, conspiracy theories, gods, angels, devils, numerology, horiscopes, the afterlife. Have you ever stepped back and asked yourself the honest question: am I believing because I want to, and am searching for evidence to justify it to other people? Or do I believe this because it was what as proven most correct? Religious: I choose to believe this(it gives me hope, comfort, etc) ~> I must find evidence. Sceptic: Evidence found ~> This is what's true, whether I like it or not
Yes yes, there is evidence!!.. It's true faith because my mom said that her mom said that her mom said....... that God said so to Mohammad. And... and... and it's written in Quaran.. Enough evidence for you?
Boom! I'm converted again back! Hehe, as facetious as that is, that's the kind of logic used quite often. "How dare you not believe in GAAWWD! Don't you know He sent His Son to save your sins? *serious tone and look* See ... see ... right here in The Word!" or "Don't you know that people from Islam threat their women like dogs? Of course there's nothing like that in The Holy Bible where it shows nothing but God's love and goodness."
Your response is not relevant to the quote. Intelligence is not equatable and parochial to the subject.
Fear, shame and religion are the only things that can set you back in life. Just my mantra though, not trying to start a flame here...
illogical or implausible?  what is the other side of the universe?  we don't have evidence of this so it's not believable? huh? with respect of the concept of God, God can do anything whether it's illogical to you or not.  God choses to like humans, hhhmmm, lucky us. i don't like the bail out of the sayings it's God or it's the Devil. it was socialogical observations mostly. -so many people like religion on this planet. -religion has endured for centuries, if it is not something that's some snake oil that is being peddled. -B.C. and A.D. are based on religion. this is how i appreciated religion when i was young.  i liked going to church for the entertainment value. i liked singing with other people instead of singing by myself to the radio.  i liked the human aspects of the people in the sermons.  it's a guide not a map.  the bible should be used to help you believe not tell you to believe, at least i think the bible should be used like that. some denominations of christianity use the fear of God to push God to people and others use the kindness or love of God to push God to people.     cavemen would not expend wasted energy or else they would not survive.  they would have thrown the dead body away from the cave if he died there or would have left the dead body where it died to save energy. the influence of religion is something not rivaled by anything on human's timeline.  i recently thought of this.  this is some snake oil being pushed effectively through out the years if there is nothing to it.
Would it not be a worse thing to kill for convenience ? The average is that 3000 people a day die in the USA for convenience. Stox says he is from Europe, Clinton does not say. I am appalled that any civilization can do this. It is corruption to the core, and hardly anyone wants to talk about it, but everyone knows it is happening. The evolutionist and creationist both work from the point of faith, since neither can use facts to prove their case. In other words, both sides are priests preaching their particular religions. Here is the recalling of the man behind one particular religion. I consider him ( Hubbard ) to be an average, as in typical, religious leader : [video=youtube;ciupsqkLLkQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciupsqkLLkQ[/video]