Yahoo wants OwnerShip my domain Flickr.pk

so much suggestions i am confused ...

 

You can comply with their request or not.

They can go to WIPO and file a dispute.

On receipt of a dispute your registrar is contacted for registration details, and to prevent the transfer of a domain name registration once a dispute action has commenced.

If the administration authority finds in favor of Yahoo you will be required to transfer, if you don't your registrar will be required to transfer.

As I understand, Yahoo is required to pay all fees (as the complainant). ($1500 US)

No matter what - you will "likely" lose the domain and gain a headache of paperwork that you will be forced to do or WIPO will unilaterally decide in Yahoo's favor.

 

What exactly is an "international trademark"? Inter-national means between nations. So either Pakistan and the US would have to have a reciprocal agreement whereas if you register a unique name to yourself as a company than nobody in Pakistan can ever touch that name...orr..there is a global authority and set of regulations that all signatories agree to bow down to during disputes. Is there such an entity for business corporations that you know of?

Regarding ICANN that sounds like an international organisation with some teeth but it still has to base its decisions on trademark and patent law does it not?

The complainents does not have that right in Pakistan because they never bothered dropping the $5 or whatever to register their name there. Obviously they did not think the .pk market was worth $5 a year so does that mean the whole world should stay away from that name in trademarks and domains? Based on what law?

Flickr is just flicker with the E missing. Its not that hard to think of. Also why didn't yahoo register the Flickr trademark in pakistan or at least aquire the domain? Obviously it was not worth $5 a year to them.

Thats an opinion, but you need clear cut legal violations to make it a fact.

 

First of all, Pakistan courts recognize International trademarks, but that doesn't matter because they don't have control over the pk domains, ICANN does. ICANN doesn't go by what Pakistan courts say.

Yahoo obviously doesn't want the domain, they just don't want infringement and they legally are required to take action to protect their trademark from becoming genericized.

Flickr is clearly a unique name and there is zero chance of it not being ruled infringement. Even phonetic and misspellings can be infringement (like Mike Rowe (his real name) registering mikerowesoft.com).

Thw WIPO does charge a fee for hearing a dispute, but yahoo is also able to claim treble their legal fees as they have a registered mark. If someone wants to make Yahoo go through the process, I would make sure they don't have the ability to turn the debt over to a collection agency in Pakistan and ruin someones credit history even if they never collect a penny.

Again, there is zero chance of keeping this domain. I've spent over a million dollars on trademark related legals fees (on both sides) over the last 15 years. While there are grey areas where you cannot predict the final outcome, this case is as clear cut as they come.

If you are so sure about your position, you should buy the domain for the $1,000 he is apparently willing to sell it for and then you could go to Yahoo and demand your $5,000.

 

give it up. save yourself time and money and worries

 

wow mjewel, you hav quite an experience in this field

 

Rep me for this...

It doesnt matter who trademarked what or registered where. It all depends on what ICANN thinks. Since I cann is based in the US:

http://who.godaddy.com/whois.aspx?domain=icann.org&prog_id=godaddy

They will most likely side with Yahoo, as they have copytight laws.

Exactly, they didnt trademark flickr in Pakistan. That is the exact case when Google LOST to some guy in Germany who trademarked Gmail in Germany AND he got the domain:

http://gmail.de/

Back from Google.

 

I got the email from Yahoo Transfer Team and they send me a form to sign up to start Transfer of the domain name .. They offer me $450.

 

I knew you would get an offer, take it. Do not negotiate further you wont get more for it. Take money and walk out of this with a big smile.

 

ICANN doesn't go by what yahoo says either. They have to have a procedure that respects the laws of the US as well as laws of other countries. Once again what is an "international trademark"? There isn't any country called Internation where if you register a trademark it automatically becomes registered in 150 countries. If yahoo was too cheap to register Flickr as a trademark in pakistan then it doesn't belong to yahoo in pakistan. Hence they have no claim over flickr.pk according to pakistani law. U.S. trademarks do not automatically become trademarks in Pakistan. Pakistan is not a state or posession of the U.S. At least not on paper, in geopolitics it may seem to be right now.

The word "Flickr" is just flicker with an E missing. Its not all that unique so in order to protect it in PAKISTAN all yahoo has to do is register Flickr as a unique trademark. Which they are too cheap/lazy/unwilling to do even now. If they want to take legal action within the legal boundaries of pakistan they have to go through an attorney there who knows trademark laws. Evidently they trademarked Yahoo Inc. but didn't bother trademarking Flickr there.

Its not unique enough to not be made up on a whim by anyone at random. And ruled by whom? When ICANN rules over pakistani domains will they assume that pakistan is a colony of the U.S. or will they step back and consider it a sovereign nation that makes its own laws? Supposing there was a legally incorporated company called chrysler in pakistan that made frisbees. Suppose also that they registered that domain chrysler.pk in 2000 and now chrystler corp. USA wants to grab that domain because it "infringes" on their trademark. Suppose also that chrysler never bothered incorporating in pakistan. No court in pakistan would grant chrystler the .pk domain(without being bribed) but according to you ICANN can just rip it away for an american company just because that company is american? It just sounds a bit...unrealistic to me. ICANN would at least PRETEND not be act like a raving maniac outlaw type entity because it would want to be accepted as a reasonable organisation internationally. At least thats what logic dictates to me. I just have a hunch that ICANN would try to behave itself.

In order to have yahoo win a judgement they would have to prove beyond doubt that the domain was purchased primarily for squatting purposes and also being used in bad faith, piggybacking off the reputation of flickr/yahoo. Here...go to www.adsense.com and then tell me why google was not able to get ICANN to rip off that domain for them? Yes the circumstances are a bit different however the key here is that ICANN by charter is probably formed to behave itself in a reasonable fashion not go around like some dark lord sith trashing and pillaging everyone on the internet as an agent for the fortune 100.

Sorry but to me the grey area is just the area where ICANN sits. The fact that he registered the domain before yahoo even registered the trademark means he has some right in cyberspace UNLESS yahoo can prove foul play or bad faith.

It sounds to me more like yahoo is the one not sure of their position, Im just an armchair theorist here but yahoo has had some pretty conflicting communications with the OP. They didn't really offer any details of how they would grab their domain back in their C&D either.

 

See I was right wasn't I?

 

$450 is enough ..

i am not able to take any step .. i am very much confused ...

 

I mean to say I was right and they cannot push you around because you have rights and you have protections also. But why are you confused? Look at everything that people have said and research it. Much of it will be weak and incorrect and useless, so get rid of all that useless scared stuff people have said to you and look at THE FACTS not the fears of people. Then whats left? 100% truth. At that point you will no longer be confused. You have so many choices and opinions here, just find out which people are right and which people are wrong.


Now the only thing you need to find out is...if this is worth $450 or if its worth more? Maybe now you can ask someone who is a lawyer in pakistan who knows about ICANN. Then if you don't have confidence just accept the $450. Or accept the $450 right now if you don't care...

 

wormy, What you continue to fail to grasp is that ICANN controls the domains, not Pakistan. It doesn't matter if Pakistan had a law that said we don't accept any trademarks and anyone can register a trademark owned by someone else. It is ICANN's domain to take regardless of what any law outside of the US says - they control the pk domains.

 

what does it take to kill a thread?

 

You got a better offer - it is a wise move to take it. You can hold out for something better (and may get it)... but before considering that, think about this:

It likely cost YAHOO a few thousand dollars just to internally discuss your case add that value to your $450... Yahoo has a bean counter... someone that determine where the line is in the sand - are they at it?

Rightly or wrongly - you're playing poker, they called, you raised, they called again... you may not have any bargaining chips to raise again, and even if you do - they may call your buff and go "all in".

 

I know they control the domain allocations ultimately. But what you fail to grasp is what I have been suggesting--that ICANN folows a strict and fair set of rules when it comes to disputes.

Their guidelines could very possibly mean following some predetermined rules and regulations based upon accepted international laws such as international trademark law. In other words even though they have the power to misbehave--they don't.

In simple english it means that more than likely they don't act like a bunch of hired burglars for the fortune 100 because if they did then nobody outside the USA would ever register a domain name with ICANN. And if they acted too recklessly they would be assaulted by a tidal wave of international lawsuits.

Why else do you think they gave up and offered the OP $450? Thats probably just for openers too you never know they might have a last resort offer approved for $1000 or even higher. Also can you explain how google got sued and lost the domain of gmail.de? Where was ICANN's mighty power? How was the multibillion dollar google empire forced to acqueisce to a tiny german company? Oh right...they were accountable to "international justice" somehow. Now doesn't this at least make you suspect that ICANN behaves itself rather than act like a bully for U.S. based corporations?

 

I agree...unless he is reasonably certain he knows exactly where the line in the sand is, its too risky to play poker. Before this offer by yahoo he had absolutely nothing to lose and statistically speaking something to gain. Now, he has something to lose($450) and has to think more carefully. Unless he can calculate the risks and benefits by visualizing precisely how they are handling this at yahoo...then its quite possibly best to just bail out now.

 

don't worry about being sued by yahoo, it wont happen, just ask for some compensation.

Just because the have the tm or rtm flickr doesn't me they own flickr.pk

 

The fact that you are in Pakistan complicates the issue. Not all countries agree to enforce each other's patent, trademark and copyright laws. I do not know what agreements exist between the United States and Pakistan, but that is important.

On the other hand, if they sue you, you need to very careful about how you approach it. Spamhaus recently did not bother fighting a lawsuit by a U.S. company it had on its blacklist, contending that it is a UK company and not subject to U.S. justice. It made the mistake, however, of trying to get the case elevated to U.S. federal court instead of arguing that U.S. courts do not have jurisdiction over an action which took place in England. By failing to show up in court, a default judgement was rendered against it. Since Spaumhaus refuses to pay the judgement, efforts are being made to get ICANN to delist the Spamhaus domain.

The moral of the story is be very careful when fighting U.S. companies on such issues.