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Writing is a Joke

Discussion in 'Copywriting' started by lynder, Dec 8, 2007.

  1. Alevoor

    Alevoor Active Member

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    #41
    Of course yes, you are right.
    I don't have anything to discuss on the first point you made, however the market still remains as tenable and powerful as ever it did. Market dynamics have a kind of cross elasticity which sets everything unto their rightful places. If you can sell at higher prices it can only mean that you are good enough for the best buyers out there. No less, no more.

    But I think the issues of copyrights and legalities are out of the scope of this thread. However, I am of the opinion that, both buyers and writers must be aware of legal implications they are getting into by their engagements. (IMO, elance.com handles this issue beautifully)

    Copyscape is a much touted, non improving, glorified tool (sorry owners!) which is of little use and even the word 'unique' referred to genuine or supposedly genuine articles is no better than a joke as we all know what we really mean when we hear it.

    I have never faced issues concerning my English nor with 'uniqueness' of my articles. I think it all lies with us, buyers and writers.
    A sensible buyer (market demand) decides who prevails or goes down and no one else.
    SEMrush
     
    Alevoor, Dec 13, 2007 IP
    SEMrush
  2. ConstantContent

    ConstantContent Banned

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    #42
    The people looking for $2 articles will simply find out the hard way what that gives them. We get these sites banned on a regular basis... Why... Simple they pay $2 for a stolen article and the thief goes to Constant-Content to get a article and tries to re-write it. We find it and the offending site then file DMCA paperwork with Google. The site gets banned and the webmaster is out the money paid for the articles, website, and anything else that has been invested in the site.

    Normally this means lesson learned.... happens all the time.
     
    ConstantContent, Dec 15, 2007 IP
  3. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #43
    Legalities are always within the scope of a discussion about writing rates. ;) You can't get around it. For example...

    1. A $2 article from an outsourced writer in another country will usually be worth less than a similar quality article for the same price from a writer from your own country, simply because the buyer has a great deal of added protection.

    2. At the same time, a $2 article outsourced to another country with different copyright regulations can be an extremely big risk for an average webmaster not earning enough to cover a potential lawsuit. In that case, paying $10 for something from a writer in their own country might actually be much more cost-effective in the long run.

    The point is that there's much, much more to pricing and value than simply the dollar amount being charged. A buyer must account for all risks when factoring their budget. Otherwise, they're jeopardizing their business as a whole. They have to ensure that the writer is taking on some of that risk if they're being responsible in their business. In the writer's country, rewriting something may be entirely legal. In the buyer's country, it may not be. I'm not saying never hire overseas. I'm saying that a buyer has to research the different laws if they choose to go that route, and be sure they have some kind of recourse if problems do arise.
     
    jhmattern, Dec 15, 2007 IP
  4. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #44
    Here is what I see as a content buyer...

    Writing quality is very difficult to determine -- especially before a significant amount of content has been delivered.

    When you are buying content by the word or the article, it makes sense to purchase the words or the articles that cost the least, right? You're getting the same "product" for less cost, right?

    Well, that is obviously not right. But, how do you determine the quality that you are getting?

    Price is a horrible was to determine quality -- in the other direction also. You can easily pay significantly more and receive absolutely no increase in quality.

    I've worked with very inexpensive writers and very expensive writers. I've seen good and bad content from both. Paying more guarantees you nothing.

    Moreover, working with native English writers is far from a panacea. Many native English speakers are quite inept with the written word. The Vietnam-era draft deferments for college education created an entire generation of completely inept fools with college degrees -- many of who found employment in the American public school system. The socialist mentality of the current American K-12 public school system almost ensures graduates without the ability to think critically and write effectively.

    In addition, good English skills do not guarantee that the content will be well organized or factually correct. These issues are probably both more important than proper grammar for most articles.

    Right now, by best writer is Portuguese. My best English editors are from India and New Zealand.

    I prefer to work with U.S.-based writers and am very willing to pay a premium for articles that require less editing. However, that expectation does not match my experience.

    As usual, caveat emptor.
     
    Will.Spencer, Dec 18, 2007 IP
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  5. internetauthor

    internetauthor Peon

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    #45
    As both a teacher and writer I have to completely agree. I'm not sure if the Vietnam era has much to do with the faulty education system in the United States today (although perhaps it contributed), but there are a slew of other problems including standardized testing and poorly paid/poorly appraised teachers.

    I became a teacher because I wanted to. I walked away from two different highly paid careers because I realized teaching was the rewarding and challenging career I wanted. Unfortunately, I've realized that out of the forty teachers in my building, I'm one of three that actually enjoy the profession for something other than the paycheck and summers off. (I'll mention teachers do earn those summers :) )

    The educational system is faulty and a college degree isn't much indication of intelligence or success (I could write pages on "remedial" college classes.) Many of the 'native English speakers' on this very forum can't seem to write a complete sentence to save their lives when advertising or promoting their services. But that doesn't surprise me seeing my fellow teachers hand out worksheets, putting a check on a finished paper (regardless of the work caliber) and waiting for June to roll around. You can imagine the kinds of writers I get by the eighth grade after being taught to fill in the blank and being taught to write only in the specific style of the standardized tests.

    I think the bottom line is that you are looking for a particular style of writer for your style of site. Those writers may not live in the United States or other English speaking countries, but they meet your needs and expectations. And you pay accordingly.

    Price is not an indication of quality nor is background. Some "writers" specialize in putting keywords on a page for pennies. Others are specific technical writers. Some writers specialize in humorous blog posts and still others do their best work with sales letters or white papers.

    There is no question that most of the "writers" advertising and responding on DP are the words on the page kind. Some of these writers (and unknowledgable clients) also take on projects that fall outside of this level of experience. This is why so many webmasters find the end result unsatisfactory - especially if they were hoping for something completely different. A sales letter should be repetitive and wordy - a concisely written article or site content should not. Many writers don't seem to realize one style or skill set doesn't fit all forms of writing.

    I think the best indication of what you can expect to receive from a writer isn't price, forum posts or nationality. It's the proven experience of that writer in his field - and that proof should be easily evident in past work documented in a sound portfolio.
     
    internetauthor, Dec 18, 2007 IP
  6. jenishshah

    jenishshah Banned

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    #46
    Today web content writers are in such a demand that it is really a good news for all of us and all those content writers around the world that we share a very important place when it comes to the communication aspect. But there are many fake content writers and tools that are actually trying to eat up our share in the market. Let me narrate to you my example where while visiting google I came across a site which would write articles for you. I was astonished to see that. When I visited the site it asked me the article and the important keywords. I thought may be it must be a tool which would rectify my grammatical error and may be give me suggestions as to how I may add keywords. But when I submitted the submit button. Gosh what am I seeing my article had been turned around completely. The words were so difficult that I began wondering which kind of english it is. This prompted me to read their guidelines and what this tool does. There it was mentioned that the tool is a script based and the results may be completely unreadable. I was like if this is the case then why generate such kind of article. I thought about it a lot and then realised such articles are used for SEO purposes. I really doubt this. Rather I would prefer assigning this to a novice writer or paying extra bucks and getting it written from a professional content writer coz such articles can be detected as spam and may be dangerous when google may come up with.

    So I hope this post is helpful in making the content writers around the globe and would like to inform that humans cannot replace machines in all departments
     
    jenishshah, Dec 18, 2007 IP
  7. Kal_El

    Kal_El Peon

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    #47
    If people are interested in getting content, just for the purpose of getting content they can surround with adsense and hopefully get long tail traffic, those 1$ 2$ content writers are more than enough. However if you are serious and would actually want to create a truly resourceful informational site, than they should be ready to pay. Or read the post I made on http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=608758

    Cheers,
    Kal
     
    Kal_El, Dec 19, 2007 IP
  8. firewolf08

    firewolf08 Peon

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    #48
    I have been freelancing here at Digital Point for over a year now and have written for other websites as well, however, right now I'm only receiving $.01/word for my work.

    Where do you find the market to sell and market your article writing service for more than a penny per word? I've searched all over the internet and have come up empty. I'm literally sick of getting paid just $.01/word for the web content that I've been writing for over a year now, but I don't know where to market my services or get new clients who will actually pay more. Do many of you just write for magazines and publications that usually take 1-2 months to get back to you about your article?

    I read somewhere in this thread that many people just buy cheap content only to sell it for a higher price. I'm aware of that, but I'm not sure how to tap into those buyers who can actually afford to to pay more than 1-2 cents per word.
     
    firewolf08, Dec 19, 2007 IP
  9. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #49
    I have quite a few posts (and markets) over at www.AllFreelanceWriting.com. Check those out as a starting place. There's also Deb Ng's blog where you can find tons of writing jobs - www.FreelanceWritingGigs.com. Anne posts a lot as well over at www.TheGoldenPencil.com.

    A lot of us are out there trying to help writers out, whether they're new or just trying to increase their rates. Hope that gives you a nudge in the right direction. :)
     
    jhmattern, Dec 19, 2007 IP
  10. Ganceann

    Ganceann Peon

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    #50
    The market for $0.01 per word and $0.10+ per word exists in the same places. If you post that your rates are $0.01 per word, then no matter the quality of your work, the chances are that you will only be approached with the people wanting $0.01 per word articles and content.

    There are many digitalpoint users that do pay for quality and refuse to even consider people who write for $0.01 per word. It just takes time for those users to need new writers as they will normally hire writers on a longer term basis.

    One way you can look at attracting better paying clients is to have your own website with your own rates outlined. There is always room for negotiation on custom requests, although the bottom line should be that you should write for a price that enables you to be rewarded for your efforts. Writing at $0.01 per word will not be rewarding for anyone living in a country that has a high cost of living.

    The highest paying jobs for writers would not normally be through forums but through direct contact with prospective clients. For instance, if you had your own website and maybe some business cards, you would be able to offer your services to local business owners in your area. Your specialist area may be writing web copy or promotional material intended for internet distribution.

    A local business would not take you seriously if you offered that service at $0.01 per word. They may well be interested in paying much higher prices if they visited your website and read your compelling arguments why your service would benefit people like them.

    Bottom line, if you are writing articles intended to be used on the internet, the best paying customers may already exist in your local community - they just don't know it yet.
     
    Ganceann, Dec 19, 2007 IP
  11. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #51
    I agree. The more I know about a writer before I sign them up, the more comfortable I am with them and the more I am willing to pay them.

    Another item worth mentioning is the style of the writers advertisement and private messages. Any errors in grammar or capitalization will instantly cause me to discount the writers skills and, as a result, pay rates.

    Editing is almost as expensive as writing. If I can receive publication-ready articles, I can justify paying the writer more.
     
    Will.Spencer, Dec 20, 2007 IP
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  12. INEEDCONTENT

    INEEDCONTENT Guest

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    #52
    I can not understand why people want sub quality work for low prices, they seem to totally overlook the idea that these articles are actually read by real people not just spiders, when you go to a site and the home page is 'in nearly good being English' do you bother to go to the sub pages I don’t because it instantly makes me mis-trust the content and that’s nothing to do with me being a writer its about perception of the quality of the whole site.
     
    INEEDCONTENT, Dec 21, 2007 IP
  13. 2LSolutions

    2LSolutions Active Member

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    #53
    I'm starting to see 0.50 for 500 words. That is sick.
     
    2LSolutions, Dec 21, 2007 IP
  14. waxingpoetic

    waxingpoetic Well-Known Member

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    #54
    This is exactly why I stopped looking for writing work on DP. It's too hard to land a gig because no one wants to pay. Especially if you are trying to build rep. It's rough. I've chosen to branch off into other avenues feeling it would be easier than the content writing headache.
     
    waxingpoetic, Dec 21, 2007 IP
  15. Ganceann

    Ganceann Peon

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    #55
    I am working on a website of my own, where most of the articles will be written by me initially and as such, will be unique and original content as well as quality.

    I am using DP as a way to gain some constructive feedback to enable me to improve and as such I do offer very low rates for writing. However, my rates are higher than the majority of writers and I do get some requests and many queries.

    I am technically a part-time writer at the minute as I have other day to day things that require attention, although when I do launch my new site, writing will become a full-time position and I would have a more professional setting to showcase my portfolio.

    The combined affect of writing at least 1 quality article for my site per day and taking direct writing requests through a website will ensure that writing does become a full-time job.
     
    Ganceann, Dec 22, 2007 IP
  16. waxingpoetic

    waxingpoetic Well-Known Member

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    #56
    Sounds like you have a great plan, and I wish you the best of luck.
     
    waxingpoetic, Dec 22, 2007 IP
  17. Spencer

    Spencer Banned

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    #57
    It's a big funny,best wishes to all
     
    Spencer, Dec 22, 2007 IP
  18. Celtik

    Celtik Well-Known Member

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    #58
    I agree...I have wrote a little before, and one person offered me VERY CHEAP rates, I figured they were all like that, so I stopped..Now that I see there is decent pay, I may start.
     
    Celtik, Dec 22, 2007 IP
  19. eFYI

    eFYI Peon

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    #59
    This subject is under discussion in a work at home forum. One of the threads has called all writing moms to strike against $3 articles. I have joined the strike even though I have never written anything for $3.

    I write high quality content. My clients are extremely pleased with my work and I can only see increases in the future. My heart aches for moms who write for pennies just to make ends meet. Many of them don't realize they have options or don't have the time to research a better marketing system. It all boils down to education and I'm not talking university here.

    There are are a few sites loaded with free info on starting a writing career. One of them offers free job leads. I'm new to this forum and don't want to break any rules. I will not benefit in any way from the urls I would love to share. PM me and I will gladly share what has helped me become a writer.

    As a writer I am also a sales person. If I want a better price I must supply a better product, target a different market, or offer something unique. I almost forgot. I may need to change my marketing techniques.
     
    eFYI, Dec 22, 2007 IP
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  20. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #60
    There are actually a lot of sites that offer that kind of information for free. I already mentioned a few of them in this thread a few posts up. ;)

    Honestly, one of the biggest problems is that people aren't doing proper research before jumping into freelancing, and when that's the case, there's no one but themselves to blame. The same is true for those who don't learn to market themselves. Then they wonder why they can't get high-paying gigs like those of us that do market ourselves effectively. Nothing sets writing groups apart financially more than their marketing ability... even overall writing ability doesn't come close. It's a shame, but people aren't going to stop jumping into business while being uneducated. The worst part is that, like you said, a lot of the information they should be learning up front is available to them for free.

    Long story short, if they don't have time to do that research, then they're not ready to be in business for themselves.
     
    jhmattern, Dec 22, 2007 IP