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WRITERS: If you don't want the harsh truth, don't read this.

Discussion in 'Copywriting' started by marketjunction, Aug 28, 2008.

  1. dyadvisor

    dyadvisor Peon

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    #61
    After an email exchange I must apologize. It may have appeared leaning to hire writers cheap. However I should have also read between the lines. We both now communicate easily with each other.
    SEMrush
    So in conclusion: So no one else misunderstands, like I originally did. InkCreativeStudios is giving starting out writers a ton of good alternatives.

    Today, my wife got stung by so called "programming professionals" found on Odesk for Wordpress modification. While they collected over $500.00 they will eventually be hurt by the comments left on their work performance. The point, either side can get hurt. So if you do hire yourself out, just remember that your reputation is at stake. That is something you cannot buy, and is not worth ripping someone off for.
     
    dyadvisor, May 5, 2010 IP
    SEMrush
  2. Kraven2

    Kraven2 Active Member

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    #62
    A few comments on the original post:

    1. English hard to master? I think not, in fact it is the easiest language I know.(I am Dutch by the way)

    2. I still see plenty of writers from other(mostly western) countries that speak and write better English then the US/UK native speakers. So besides the misconception that native speakers write the language best, I see no real advantage in being able to hire more UK/US writers.

    3. I charge $ 5 for a 500 word article, not because it is not worth more, but because it is enough. I am about good business, not greedy business. The benefit from that being the fact that my customers actually come back for more, establishing long term relationships. I rather have a steady mid sized income per month then the occasional article making a bundle, as it simply is not reliable enough in terms of income.

    Just thought I' d throw that in the mix. Discuss! :D
     
    Kraven2, May 7, 2010 IP
  3. Fem

    Fem Active Member

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    #63
    I would say you are partially right. Though I can't say that some writers never try to have a better payment, the competition has paved ways to quality empowerment among writers, in many different ways. Even the guys who are not native speakers are capable of producing top notch contents that would catch the attention of great buyers.
     
    Fem, May 21, 2010 IP
  4. Kraven2

    Kraven2 Active Member

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    #64
    Agreed, and I never stated I don't do higher paying jobs. I am just saying that I made the $ 0.01 per word market my core, as demand is much higher in that market. I can guarantee enough assignments to make a comfortable living. I also write for constant content for example, and the orders I pick up there usually are between $ 25 and $ 100 per article.

    The difference is that if I do one post offering my services in here at $ 0.01 per word I get PM messages up to 3 weeks after the post, and hundreds of articles to write, while I would get 10 articles at constant content.

    On the other hand both the clients I got from constant content and the ones here keep coming back, so I must be doing something right, and I would be lying if I would say that it did not affect my income in a very positive manner :)
     
    Kraven2, May 31, 2010 IP
  5. trafficweb

    trafficweb Peon

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    #65
    You ended the progression a little too soon. If rates online bottom out for quality work,
    many of the #3 and #4 writers will probably move to offline magazine and
    newsletter writing. I am about to make this transition myself. The rates are
    excellent once you break-into the market.
     
    trafficweb, Jun 11, 2010 IP
  6. +xenon+

    +xenon+ Peon

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    #66
    Some of the sites suggested here such as Word Gigs, Demand Studios, and Text Broker only allow US residents to sign up. WiseGeek also prefers US residents. So where does that leave the rest of the non-US residents who are fluent in English? With the lower end content mills...

    The point I'm trying to make is that people have to start somewhere in a marketplace that is competitive. Some people will use the 1-2c/word articles to help build their portfolio or perhaps to start building their network. Or perhaps they don't know where to go and are currently studying copywriting books that they've found online or at their local library. Or they just have no idea where to go other than the content mills, mainstream freelancing websites like freelancer.com, or websites such as DP.
     
    +xenon+, Jul 20, 2010 IP
  7. Kraven2

    Kraven2 Active Member

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    #67
    BS. Being a non native writer I am living proof that that is not a boundary, not something that holds you back.

    Constant content, and plenty of other well paying sources are happy to accept any talented writer. In fact I have been collecting those places. Click on the cure in my sig if you would like to find them too :)
     
    Kraven2, Jul 20, 2010 IP
  8. InkCreativeStudios

    InkCreativeStudios Greenhorn

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    #68
    I don't even recommend staying with Demand Studios, or Word Gigs, etc. It's a starting point. DP can be a starting point, but go beyond that. Work with private clients that will pay your more.

    If you want a great gig, instead of looking for job openings, market your services. That's really the next step as a freelancer.

    My advice is usually to stop studying copywriting and start looking at how to market your business by using your copywriting or other means of getting attention. Freelancing is 80% marketing. I've been there. I've had my big clients, and they didn't care where I was from as long as I was producing what they wanted. High quality content, ranging from $50 to $100 an article and up.

    Some who have the drive figure it out, some don't and stick with what they know or move on to another career.

    I can't babysit the world and help them with ideas and concepts though. It takes personal responsibility and just getting out there and doing the work. If you have a specific need you'd like to address or need help with in your business, I'm always happy to help, but concepts and theories don't get to the heart of the matter: It's hard work and if you don't know the method in your situation, ask.
     
    InkCreativeStudios, Jul 20, 2010 IP
  9. Kraven2

    Kraven2 Active Member

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    #69
    Writers should print this, frame it and hang it above their desk!

    It's so true it hurts!
     
    Kraven2, Jul 20, 2010 IP
  10. Perry Rose

    Perry Rose Peon

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    #70
    Are you kidding, +xenon+?

    There are, God knows, how many websites, magazines, trade publications, newspapers, small circulars, newsletters...to write for, it'll make your head spin.

    Think outside the box.
     
    Perry Rose, Jul 20, 2010 IP
  11. +xenon+

    +xenon+ Peon

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    #71
    No I'm not, in fact I'm merely re-iterating what others have posted on this thread about half the time, so you don't have to go and jump up and down because it's nothing new (unless of course, you've skipped the entire thread and landed on my post). For example, Kraven2 admits that his core marketing is 1c a word starting out, which is less or on par than some of the content mills are actually paying for.

    People have to start out somewhere, and some people do not have the confidence to write for magazines and other publications because "they aren't good enough" or whatever. While I'm not saying that content mills are an all-round good thing because the pay is quite low, I am saying that some content mills (especially those with good editorial feedback) are good for newbies to get their feet wet, decide whether they do want to do it or not, before going on to bigger and better things such as trying to look for a job (eg Copywriter for an advertising agency) or marketing themselves to others as a proper Freelance Writer.
     
    +xenon+, Jul 21, 2010 IP
  12. Kraven2

    Kraven2 Active Member

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    #72
    That has changed since then xenon. The $ 1c articles have since become something I do when I feel like helping out someone. My current client base pays a much higher rate. I have been shown the way as they say. A wizard crossed my path and whooped my ass into shape :D
     
    Kraven2, Jul 21, 2010 IP
  13. Perry Rose

    Perry Rose Peon

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    #73
    Uhhh, there is no jumping up and down.

    You asked a question, and it got answered. If you want to limit yourself, fine, but don't post negative stuff that others who DON'T want to limit themselves can read.

    Yeah, and? Just about all here are amateurs, at best, so that is not saying much.

    The bottom line: Just about all do not want to work at improving themselves, even when given info that can jumpstart their success.

    Hell, some want their dick held when they go to the bathroom.

    As for content mills...they aren't worth a bucket of horseshit.

    Period.
     
    Perry Rose, Jul 21, 2010 IP
    Tyler Banfield likes this.
  14. Kraven2

    Kraven2 Active Member

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    #74
    Hey don't kick the horse shit, that stuff works miracles in any garden! :D
     
    Kraven2, Jul 22, 2010 IP
  15. leeshamore

    leeshamore Greenhorn

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    #75
    You can be in any group that you want to, but I think you're better off being in group #1 or #4. With group #1 you get quantity over quality. With group #4 you get quality over quantity. In other words, you get what you pay for. I don't fell that groups 2 and 4 will be in much demand, so they need to think about moving, really. So essentially, I agree.
     
    leeshamore, Jan 22, 2011 IP
  16. linkem

    linkem Peon

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    #76
    Whilst I'm not denying that good (perfect, even) grammar and language skills are important, there's really no need to go out and buy any kinds of books or resources on copywriting. You just don't need to. For those who don't speak/read English as a native language but want to learn, the best thing to do is spend some time reading high-quality free language resources on the internet and practising writing. If you have any friends, teachers etc. who you know are good at writing or good at English, then ask them for help. Ask them to correct your work. Even post it on English-speaking forums and ask for feedback.
     
    linkem, Jan 25, 2011 IP
  17. awundrin

    awundrin Well-Known Member

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    #77
    I have seen many Indian writers here on DP bragging that they can write "better English" then American writers. Ha ha! What a joke. Just browse through one of the article directories and look at the articles written by Indians--they are laughable! Really, if you need a good belly laugh, browse these directories.
     
    awundrin, Jan 25, 2011 IP
  18. Kraven2

    Kraven2 Active Member

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    #78
    Its the ones who don't post, and make their deals in private that possess the skills ;) What you see posted is not all that is out there. I know quite a few Indian writers who can deliver top notch quality.
     
    Kraven2, Jan 26, 2011 IP
  19. dan64

    dan64 Member

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    #79
    Absolutely right.
     
    dan64, Feb 5, 2011 IP
  20. vishals

    vishals Active Member

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    #80
    As an Indian freelance writer, I was tempted to reply harshly to the "point" made by awundrin, but this response is as good as any that can be made without taking it personal; which would not have been inappropriate because her claim itself is personal in nature - that no Indian can be a better writer than an American. People forget that for many of us English is not just the lingua franca, it is also our first language. As Khushwant Singh, an Indian English writer, put it in his own style, "My mother tongue is English, though my mother does not know a single word of it!" :D
     
    vishals, Feb 6, 2011 IP