WRITERS: If you don't want the harsh truth, don't read this.

Been sitting here reading this thread and finding it most interesting. Use of the word flow above enticed me to make a couple comments. I know this isn't exactly what was meant but fits with the kind of writing I want.

A style which flows and leads you to the next sentence is what I am after as I can't tolerate that short choppy stuff which makes me fear whiplash from starting, stopping and trying to make sense of the whole.

It might be that I am picky but it is a constant battle finding someone to produce site content. I am a small time developer with a very limited budget and get very frustrated that samples are not bad, I order and what comes is pure trash. I long for the time when I will have the resources to hire true professionals to write my content.

I can do it but usually will take 2-3 days writing, rewriting, starting over to get one article to suit me. Writing code is soooooo much easier.

With the decline of parking revenue which IMO is a good thing there will be an increased demand for writers as domainers build more and more mini-sites.

 

Are the samples you are getting related to the content you're ordering? Some writers may not be able to write well about topics they aren't familiar with or don't understand. A professional writer will be able to get through that block, but if you're not paying much...well....you probably aren't working with a professional.

Paying for good content, even when you can't afford it, can be an important step in propelling your business to the next level. It's like saying you really need a job- but can't afford to buy a suit to wear to the interview. If you don't buy the suit, you probably won't get the job.

 

Duly noted.

It isn't a matter of the content which is decent but the style, structure and grammar. In fact one admitted he wrote the samples but his girl friend did the article because he was busy. He got angry when I asked for a refund.

 

I think you are right. I seem to be picking up more jobs just to keep up with my growing income needs for the family.

 

I just read this post so this reply's a way too delayed.

Anyhoo, instead of asking for a refund, you could have asked him to rewrite the article. That way, you don't put out any more money and there won't be any ill feelings between the two of you. And if that writer's really a pro, he won't have any qualms doing rewrites of his (or his girlfriend's) article since rewrites come with the territory, within reasonable bounds of course.

 

I see what you're saying here. You have writers who are ecstatic about making $200 per week even though they are shelling out 50 or more articles and probably on the road to carpal tunnal.

I recently lost the best gig I ever had. My boss asked me to find some more writers and one of them outsourced the job to a copier. I'm a little sad by this but I had a "fallback" gig waiting just in case.

I average $15 now for a 500 word article but it's not because I turn out huge quantities but because I take the necessary time to make my articles appealing. If you find a website and see messed up English and weird sentences, odds are you will hit "BACK" right away. I know I do.

The draw of "copywriters" has gotten huge due to word of mouth, forums, and cheap content sites. No matter what, if you expect a 500-1000 word article to be interesting, you will pay more than 1-2 cents per word.

There ARE numerous companies out there that can actually provide you with decent web content for around $100 for 20 articles but the writers who work there are clueless. They don't realize what they are truly worth so they will stick with it. That's not bad news for people who need content. The problem is, those writers eventually realize they are being screwed over and either quit completely or attempt to start a private site that they can't handle.

Your best bet to find a long-term, quality writer is to troll content sites like Associated Content or Constant Content, even DailyArticle. See who's writing looks good and make them a bulk offer. If you offer a good writer even $10 per 400 word article and ensure them this gig will last a few months, you will have a great, reliable writer who will always come through for you.

If you want to find a good writer, do a simple test. Ask a few to write you a 400 word article about something. You should be able to tell the pros from the noobs immediately.

 

I'm not saying that there's no skill or work involved in obtaining work, but is there not a certain element of luck when it comes to getting 'decent' clients? I know I wouldn't be in the position I am now if my boyfriend's landlord didn't find out I was a writer. I did some work for his website, he put in a good word for me to his friends and voila! I have very little knowledge on how to market myself to potential clients and if I'm honest, only 11 months experience in writing for clients on the web.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Digital Point isn't the be all and end all for writers in category 2 and 3. I'm still charging $0.02 per word for my articles but much higher for my press releases and I see it as a learning curve. Everyone has to tread the plateau of trying to 'up' their rates and in a way it's a stage which separates the good writers from the poor ones. Natural selection if you will.

I'm not as keen to simply give up or accept that I will be working for these rates forever as quickly as you (MarketJunction) suggest.

 

Before writing anything for a few cents a word, I ask myself if I can make more money writing the article for myself and putting it on an article directory, blog or content site. If an article I write is likely to bring in more than a few dollars over the course of the next year, it belongs to me. So far, no pennies per word articles....

 

I think it comes down to those writers in groups #1 or #2 not understanding that they're the ones responsible for remaining in the low-paying ranks. If they stopped accepting such low-paid work and aimed at something a little more worth their while their incomes would go up and they'd suddenly be in groups #3 or #4.

It might also show some of those article marketers or webmasters that quality work deserves decent pay. We're not slaves.

 

It's interesting. I've been working as a freelance writer for 12 years and I find the race to bottom crap on some of these sites to be disgusting. Who would want to write for 1 cent/word or less? You wind up working your a$$ off and when you're done, you're exhausted and don't have enough money to keep a flea alive, let alone pay your bills.

When I started, 10 cents/word was the bottom of the barrel. 1 dollar/word was more like it if you could find those gigs and I did, many times. Even better, was when I learned to go beyond that and create JV's. Still, for writers at large there are some great jobs out there if you know how to find them. The worst thing that any writer can do is to go after work on sites such as elance or Rentacoder. There, writers aren't treated with any respect, which really ticks me off.

Writing is a time honored profession, in my opinion, and those who would write for next to nothing cheapen it.

Having said that, there are many writers out there whose work is horrible. I've had the misfortune of trying to edit their work.

 

The issue here, I believe, is that Digital Point has melted into a cesspool of cheap webmasters scraping for a few cents on adsense a day. They can't afford more than $.01/word and they won't pay more. As such, the writers here have to drop their rates and get paid snack money.

I, as a rather good writer myself, make a bit of cash writing articles, but at $1/100 words. The problem is that I don't know where to look for better and higher paying jobs, as most don't.

 

This is a valid point - where to look. I know where and have for years. One tip I can give you is to go the public library and ask for the Gales directories (4 large blue books) and ask the librarian how to use them. There, you will find all sorts of contacts for magazines. That's what I used to start and it worked. There are other resources I know of online, that make the process of getting work even easier. These are the subject of a new book I'm writing, about how to make money as a freelancer.

 

I guess it's the economy. Once the economy peaks, and everyone can get higher paid job, the pool of good writers will shrink.

 

Scheng 1 - this is not about Class one article writers, Sorry.

I can tell you where you can get more professional clients than you handle. Have 1,000 connect with you within 30 days. Professional business people have their skills, usually writing is not one of them. A top notch writer can use easy, above table methods to help them. If I charge a business person say $200.00 for an article so effective that it makes him $2,200 minimum is this wrong? I have in one year accepted invitations from 2,000+ business people to connect with me. In turn I have rejected 7,000. Is there room for more skilled writers that do all different types of high quality writing? Yes. I might take on a client for $250.00 in the financial service industry, and write an article. Then he want PR releases, and me to write a ghost book of 170. pages, and more. What besides collecting money for him have I done? Make him the most recognized financial college planning around 3 major universities, and helped him win a trip to Hawaii. Do I get recognition? No, as a ghost writer, you have to let your client get the glory. Opportunities are very consistent with level of skills, unique talents, and creativity. A down economy makes people want value for their money.

 

Here's how it's done for a new writer trying to work her way up in writing.

These days, you start with places like Word Gigs and Textbroker. Content mills provide a starting point. They do pay, so there's no worrying about people disappearing after work is done. They have a system that teaches a person how to do the work and do it well.

After this point, once they get comfortable with writing, they look for other gigs. This may mean finding their own clients or it may mean bigger markets.

There's two types of content writers. Writers who wish to make it in writing and those who are just trying to fund their way through college or until they find something better. (There's the third category, writers who like content writing and will stick with it forever, but that's just that group 1 writer base as mentioned.) Those who write just to fund their way through college or what not are much more likely to stick with content writing as it's easy and doesn't require a lot of effort to find someone to buy their skills.

So leveling up includes getting in with Demand Studios, WiseGeek or similar. Still content mills, but higher quality work and better pay rate. $15 for a 400-word article. Once a writer writes for places like Demand Studios, they'll pretty much make the majority of their money from them while filling in on occasion with the lesser paying gigs just to keep the 'extra' on hand.

If they have a private client, they'll want to be paid at least better than what WordGigs and Textbroker pays them. Otherwise, they may as well work for WordGigs or Textbroker.

I've been paid $100 for a 500-word 'content' article, and I've been paid for articles that have been placed in magazines on the web. I've also started out by writing 500-word $2.50 articles. (Silly me!)

I worked much harder to write 500 words for $100 than I did for writing for $2.50. What you are paying for is time and how much research I bother to write for. If a person can't earn more than minimum wage writing, they eventually go back out into the workforce.

So if you can at least keep it so they are making at minimum $10 an hour, you can keep a lot of them happy until they 'level up'.

I can earn an average of $30 an hour or more with my higher paying clients and they can make a lot of money off of me. It evens out.

I've also learned that I can pay $5 for a crappy article from a poor US writer, or I can pay $10 and get a fairly decent article that will be published in high quality and high ranking blogs.

So, yes, the original poster is correct, there are plenty of people figuring out that content writing can be a lucrative and steady gig. There are plenty of people willing to pay $5.00 for a 500-word article and you can make a minimum of $10 an hour if you're doing a good job.

But you don't have to insult writers by posting about what you think we want or what we think of ourselves. We already know or we figure out eventually what works for us. To think about it in a per piece and point out that writers are working for low wages is silly. Since we know the language well and have become pros at the research and write from what you know thing, we make better than minimum wage. A whole lot better.

Give some respect to your writers and treat them well and they'll be happy to work with you. Bob over at Word Gigs gets so much respect from his writers because he's honest and treats his writers with as much respect as he'd treat his lawyer. His rates are on the low end (as mentioned starting rate is .01 per word) but because he's respectful, writers stick with him.

 

I should mention, also, that there are plenty of writers who move on to writing for magazines and top websites that only fill in with Demand Studios or similar when they've hit a dry spell. There's also writers who wouldn't touch writing content with a ten-food pole unless it paid $.50 a word or more, and they get those rates.

Since there are so many writers at so many levels and so many variations and we eventually figure out what works for us, assuming to tell us what we think or what we are willing to accept or what not is presumptuous.

 

QUIT MAKING YOUR ADVERTISING POSTS HERE. Start posting on the Market section if you are allowed to. Your "Demand Studios" must not have much demand, as you constantly try to advertise them. Just GO TO ...............the right Forum. Most of the people here want to provide free advice, show their individual ways, and start good discussions. PEDDLE YOUR MOUSE TRAP ELSEWHERE PLEASE.

Opinions, guidance, asking how would you do it, and encouragement is one thing. Sneaky outright advertising for your benefit is not. DO YOU NEED A SIGN, NO PEDDLERS HERE, MOVE DOWN THE STREET?

 

What are you talking about? I don't own Demand Studios. >.> It's just another content mill. Like Bright Hub. Or WiseGeek.

 

Dear demand studios rep. This comes from your site.

" but we choose not to accept the Contribution for any reason, we may elect to terminate the Assignment and pay you a "kill fee" (depending on the Assignment, up to 15% of the payment amount specified in the Assignment for the completed Contribution). Demand Media will not pay you more than three kill fees during the term of this Agreement or your participation in the Demand Studios program. Except for the "kill fee," we have no obligation to pay you unless and until we notify you in writing that we have approved a Contribution"

To me this is worse than other places making money off people. They take 10%. You can take 15% to 85%, and then resell their hard work. Plus you only make this available to people in the US, Canada, & UK. I wonder why. This is an opportunity for you, not for others that want to make 100% of what they are worth. You cannot fool all the people, but you can fool yourself. Please contribute, not deceive. Honesty is the best policy.

 

Breaux, they don't have to work for Demand. It's just a content mill. The folks here are selling themselves for $1 for 100 words or so and sell all rights. The company content mills are a bit of a 'step up' but they aren't the end all. It's just more content writing (not the writing you do for magazines and such). It's a different ball game.

Demand Studios pays $7.50 for 250 word articles, $15 for 400 words and up to $80 and up for articles posted with USA Today (one of their clients). WiseGeek pays $10 an article. Bright Hub pays $10 plus passive income. About.com pays $700 a month for guides plus extra for better performance. FreelanceWritingGigs lists more options.

Look dude, I run a blog, I'm building websites and I've been writing for the past 10 years. I haven't posted word one of my own blogs or websites at all. My entire goal is to not write any more, I want to build websites, but I don't mind telling others how to make more money. Just throwing out ideas.