I'm sorry what is the releveancy with hacks and this thread? and @miktor; it is not a secret that Armenian Genocide lie is the only thing armenians around the world have in common and their only political arguement. I am sorry to let you know. And btw to other 3 post guy; me knowing what you don't does not make me ignorant, makes you one. Now stop whining and testing patience.
It is relevant since you claim Turks don't have problems with other races or anything else like that. And how would you know what Armenians have in common if you are not Armenian yourself? I know for a fact that I don't know what Turks have in common so I won't even go there. If you don't know a culture, don't speak of their people. Also, you see most people on this thread (including me) respond in respectful ways while you just show complete disrespect towards everyone who does not have the same mindset as you do. I think most people on this thread will agree with this.
Of course we do not, do you have any idea how many races lived within Ottoman ruled lands in over 500 years? Do you assume a common living is possible only with violance and brute force? If you think so, check todays world to see if it's possible or not. And for the question let me refresh your memory a bit; Greeks, North Africans, Balcanic & Arabic region, Bulgarians, Egyptians, Jews, Bosnians, Serbs, countless others(check the map) How many of them claim such a thing but you? Doesn't it make you rather exceptional? You are calling my nation as genocider, totally ignorant, provoke people towards us and assume it is respectful talking. Ok very nice point of view. I will not show respect to cry babies, which do not cover all Armenians but people like you who play with the fire. Besides, i know your people very well as i have many friends of your race, it does not matter you accept the fact that it is the only thing you have in common, it is no secret. That's why you can't afford it disproved and that's why you official history institute refuses to share legal documents or common investigations, because it is not historical it is political. As you see you will not get anything from us, why do not you start a campaign to take it by force since there is no other way around? Or is it better to wait till a world war breaks out so attack our civillians again then? How long do you think we should bare such a hostile nation who does not even recognize our borders living next to us? Who would? When we react your hostility will you cry genocide again? How scary it is! I hope there will be people to take the advice and be more peaceful, otherwise we do not have to be or will be on defence all the time, there is always consequences of attacking others, there had been in the past and there will be in the future. You can name self-defence to whatever you like, eventually what goes around comes around. We have a fame about being helpful to others and hospitality, if someday you elect historical-failure-complex-free politicians who are wise enough to see peace will do a lot better to you than the ongoing situation, you will see more help from us than those who use you for politics. You choose your destiny, not French or Brits or Russians or we do, i'm just telling you, do not make the same mistake again trusting wrong people, at the end, you can live with us in peace and harmony, or you can go on attacking and messing with us and force us to defend ourselves, which would not be really pleasent.
now read this from Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalist_Movement_Party Did you commit a genocide towards them? You did towards Armenians, as another proof you may think of Ani, which is a good Tour place but you don't know its history, though it is in your territory respectful manner in this case is when you know what you are talking about. YOu don't just type cry babies all the time, but bring facts and not couple of ignorant words, and a huge quoted post with another couple of words which do not have any connection to the whole post You never know me, or the real Armenians, you know people who lived in Turkey for years, went to Turkish school, studied Turkish history, which has 1915 out of it. Force is not a way we want to do. By force you will never understand your mistakes, just like you do now. By force we will not get more serious, respected and etc.... neighbors, we will get enemies. We are not Ottoman Empire to kill people as it is a war or something else cannot cause us to massacre our neightbors Self defence, in this case I take it Turks defend themselves from Turks. Be scared of people surrounding you and not Armenians that much. I am pretty sure, the HISTORY will find the DIPLOMATIC way of becoming the TRUTH in TURKEY Yes you have a fame of being hospitale like in 1915..... First you tell we do not show the history, later you want to have a historical failure politician as our leader, and that you call respect towards your forefathers, 1915 Here is the case with THE GENOCIDE and not our relation with French, British or Russians, or EVEN USA Defend yourself from truth and you "will find your place in this world" THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE TOOK PLACE IN 1915 on APRIL 24
Very good example of how ignorant you are and can't even make proper Google searches. That's a political parties page which does not receive more than %10, (was about %8 in the last elections as far as i remember) a party which could not even get the percent of vote to participate in the parliament. Every country, without an exception, has a group of extremists, racists, religionists etc. which does not represent the common sense. And just so you know, them increasing votes are due to race or religion based provacations from the outer world just like yours. I guess you saw the "Nationalist" in the name and "figured " "whee this should be their national motto, let me use it \o/" See? Your proofs always fail like this one. They would say something if we did right? But we only hear some morons who can't accept that they dared to attack a nation who let them live in their lands as neighbours and got slapped down so bad that they can't even accept it after 100 years. There are so many nations lived under Ottoman ruled lands and none claiming such thing but you, accept the truth already. If you call me genocider in the topic, i can call you whatever i want, i won't ask your permission for that. Besides, crying for 100 years over a war defeat is beyond the term crybaby, you are developing a new definition about "not being a man" Also, i can go find like thousand videos which were made by Armenians and totally offending Turks in an extreme way, curses, belittling the race, swearing, sexually insulting etc. So if you start a copy/paste war about who has hate among other races or what individuals do like hacking, Wikibongi etc. I can find you a lot more material, but that will be a childish fight which unlike you i don't enjoy to get in, and totally irreveleant from what is talked here. Ah another total ignorancy. Do you know how many Armenian schools and churches there are in Turkey? How do you know who i met was educated where? Do you have uber-natural powers or something or are you making your own comments, mixing them with the poison you were given at school and believe them as facts just like you do in this whole thread? Have you ever met a Turk at all? Dude you have just been taught that you are so miserable you can't even get anything for all your life by self accomplishment so you should go cry over shoulders and beg. You see you just don't know shit. Be scared? Do you think we're scared? Start a campaign right now to get things on your own since we are afraid, and let's see who is afraid on the field. And btw, if some backstabber nation attacks your civillians during a war, you perfectly have the right to kill them and quarantine those whoever supports them. This is called self defence. Since you have NO history you don't know how wars occur, if you did you'd not be puppets of French and Russian and got into such a fight you could never win. I am repeating; if you don't take the risk to be defeated simply don't go into wars. It counts for now too, if you don't want to be slapped again just as back then, stop messing around as soon as possible, or you(plural) will be responsible for whatsoever happens just as you were responsible in that time for starting the war against our unarmed civillians. As you cant even make Google searches, you cant understand what you read either i guess. I said; elect historical-failure-complex free, as. people who do not have historical failures as a mind complex as leaders. And your Official History Institute is not open for investigations nor shares there documents, if you don't know this either, ask them yourself. I am pretty sure you have no idea about what a genocide is, you have developed your own definition, something like; "if someone kills us, it is genocide no matter what, end of discussion, now let them accept this anyhow!" since when you attack people and get killed for it, think it is a genocide...... However, nevermind, just believe it, want to believe it, do everything to make people believe it, do not recognize our borders, be hostile towards us, forget what you did back then, forget ASALA, forget Hodjali, forget your financial and logistic supports to any seperatist organisation within Turkey even today. "Very amazingly" none of the Armenians in this thread like to mention these though, since when they attack people and get killed for that, it is genocide, but when they kill unarmed civillians, diplomats, supporting terrorism, is very very legal. Oh and even 1 of them claimed ASALA is not a terrorist organisation lol, this is their point of view, way too objective. But.... When the patience is no more against this much of hostility; 1. Do not trust those who abandoned you in WW1 can save you, this is not a war game you play on a console, so think very wisely, let history be your light in picking people to mess with. 2. Do not think we will hesitate to defend ourself thinking "what if they cry for another 100 years" because we do NOT give a jack about those who attack us and then pretend to be the victim. I'm repeating my previous post, you choose your destiny, if you want it this way, you are welcome.
10% is a lot I'd say. Being a member of another party does not yet mean you do not beleive in other party's ideas and ways of thinking. So there are/can be many people to accept the ARMENIAN GENOCIDE of 1915 Concerning every country that has a group of extremists, racists, regilionists, etc... I' say that I don't know of any in Armenia, even if I knew, it would not be 10% of the country for sure. I don't have anything to run for wordings in this thread, there are facts and there is everything showing it This WAS NOT A WAR, this WAS ATTACKING UNARMED PEOPLE, KICKING THEM OUT FROM THEIR OWN HOMES, COMMITING A GENOCIDE. THE WORLD WAR was just something that Ottoman Empire (nowdays known as Turkey) used to conquer some more land. I never said that you/yourself are a genocider, I meant the origin of your coutry (Ottoman Empire) commited GENOCIDE by KILLING 1500000 ARMENIANS. You will see who's the man if we meet at the battlefield some day You would do the same to the people who killed your forefather, took your land, and claimed it to be a normal WAR. I have met a TURK at all for sure, I have been working with many international organizations. I have met Turks who are journalists, diplomats and people of other spheres, they all beleived in ARMENIAN GENOCIDE, but they also beleived that the will put an end to everything they have in Turkey if they accept it. Concerning the schools and churches, lately St Cross church was a good example of Armenian church and how was its opening treated in your country, with the red Turkish flags like advertisement posters on it and with ATATURK surrounding it. Having a church that you claim to be Armenian does not yet mean it is Armenian. I know more then you do son, be wise and try to be more polite to people who you don't know The campaign started a long time ago, and it continues, it does not go on the way Turks did in 1915, we do it the wise way, which is not understandable for your nation. Slapping a man with no arms and accidentally from the back is quite close to what happened back then, try it now, you'll find out what would happen to your nation. Your new dictionary is quite good, have you included your terms that have double meanings in the Wiki dictionary. Go ahead do so, maybe then people will know what you want to say Concerning the Official History Institute of Armen, they don't have anything to observe any more, many historicans, scientists, etc has already made their investigations and given their comments about it Someone kills us, does not yet mean some nations massacres another nation. Someone kills us does not mean killing 1500000 unarmed inhabitants Someone kills us does not mean killing, it means making them suffer, torturing them, making them to die Beleive what, a war that was a GENOCIDE, NEVER ASALA, do you know the history of ASALA? here is some info for you hope you understand that if in 1915 Turks didn't COMMIT THE GENOCIDE, there wouldn't have been anything called ASALA "We will save you" just LIKE WE DID BACK THEN IN 1915. History is our light don't worry Isolate your country from the world, maybe then it will be quite good. Continue the 100 year lie, maybe the you will know the truth A part of our destiny was chosen in place of us back in 1915. At the same time Ottoman Empire's (nowdays known as Turkey) destiny was chosen. P.S. Also please read carefully all the previous posts, also if you don't understand anything let me interpret it for you, maybe after some description you will have quite a better view of what I am telling and will not give an answer to couple of expressions from the whole thread. Another thing is why were you afraid to have a small discussion with grage10kinga?
I do not know how much of a propagandate going on against you since we do not care, which would increase your nationalist based votes, but still %10 is not a great percentage, and you do not have to stick the g word in every sentence, saying sth too many times does npot make it real. You mean Armenians attacking unarmed Ottoman Turkish civillians right? Or do you not know who started? Conquer more land? Do you know the map in that time, i gave a sample above, maybe you think you had those lands, sorry to let you know that it was your people to attack to own the lands and who got taught they can not. Call me, call my people, the very same, which makes you such a cry baby crying for 100 years, you guys have become really mental. About the battlefield thing, that's really cute you assuming you have a chance, however it is.. you know.. Again, you got no lands, you were "let live" in ottoman lands for hundreds of years, after hundreds of years you assuming things like this happen for no reason is really objective, hopefully you will get rid of your hatred and see why those happened afterall, also; saying "this is mine" does not make it yours, in the same reasoning Los Angeles belongs to you too? I do not claim it is a normal war, it was a backstab by those people who attacked our unarmed people in the ambition of a piece of land and still got beaten, on our weakest term of time, and who will likely to do same forcing us to take another physical defence against this huge hostility. In fact that's what you did, you still can not understand that this was started by your gangs towards unarmed Turks, i guess accepting that would burst your bubble huh? Trying to make it look like you were shot over nothing seems a better propagandate right? And about your routine threats; we can use our right of self defence "again", and if you know a bit of armies except what you know from console games, you'd know we'd erase you from the map in a heart beat. So claiming something justifies your official terror towards unarmed people and diplomats? So there is nothing wrong about it? Well said, you show your real face when you are pushed to talk deeper. Let me tell you somewhat of a history since you know no jack. Thruout the WW and earlier, some western countries provoked some nations in Mid east towards Ottoman, like Arabs, Kurds, Armenians and some other sub-cultural groups. They "used" them promising land from our territory. And "some" of your ancestors(not all, as those wise guys who did not attack have grandsons still live in my neighbourhood, hundreds of thousands in total in Turkey) agreed to be puppets and "started" an attack. And when we slapped them all in face, those nations who made you their puppets suddenly disappeared, abandoned you, can you understand? So if you count on those once again, you will fail once again and they will abandon you once again? If you take lessons from history you pick enemies of your size and do not go to wars you will fail just like you did. Or you can count on those guys who used and abandoned you and live in a misery for another 100 years. It is your choice. Isolation? Turkey? Uhm.. You need to be schooled seriously. Have i? Where? You see, you are sinking down dude. Maybe better stop it no? "I will say it happened till everyone agrees " will not give you anything but more trouble. Just be wise, we do not see you as enemies as long as you stop messing around, we even voted 12 for you haha. Ok my friend? (should i expect a "i'm not your friend ")
Two wrongs don't make a right. Everyone currently alive has had bad things happen to their ancestors. Success is the best revenge. The best possible thing you can do is pick up the pieces and move on. Let the Turks rot in their denial. They are a part of your past and are irrelevant to your future.
READ HISTORY, NOT THE TURKISH HISTORY, BUT THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD, IN ENGLISH AND FROM INTERNATIONAL SOURCES AGAIN: READ HISTORY, NOT THE TURKISH HISTORY, BUT THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD, IN ENGLISH AND FROM INTERNATIONAL SOURCES WE'LL SEE WHO'S WHO SOMEDAY, HOPEFULLY YOU'LL BE ALIVE AGAIN: READ HISTORY, NOT THE TURKISH HISTORY, BUT THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD, IN ENGLISH AND FROM INTERNATIONAL SOURCES AGAIN: READ HISTORY, NOT THE TURKISH HISTORY, BUT THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD, IN ENGLISH AND FROM INTERNATIONAL SOURCES No one, never could erase Armenians in the entire history. From your posts I see you consider Armenia an enemy, you have to study your enemy before starting a fight. Here you are pretty wrong AGAIN: READ HISTORY, NOT THE TURKISH HISTORY, BUT THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD, IN ENGLISH AND FROM INTERNATIONAL SOURCES Armenians have nothing to be afraid of to cover their faces AGAIN: READ HISTORY, NOT THE TURKISH HISTORY, BUT THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD, IN ENGLISH AND FROM INTERNATIONAL SOURCES Slapped them all from behind, you have a mistake there If I am not mistaken lately Turkey was kicking out all French companies as France took the side of the TRUTH by ACCEPTING the GENOCIDE Couple of posts back, PAGE 5, POST #85 Here is a shorcut for you http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=3036007&postcount=85 I think you are right, I need to stop fitting some brains into your head. I need to stop Not Turks, but Armenians who live in Turkey, there is a big difference, between you and them. But they don't have to be your friends you grew up with, this are other Armenians. These are the ones who know what country means Not but the term FRIEND is different for me. I do not find friends in the forum, I find people who I talk with. FRIENDS are much more than just FRIENDS, if you knew Armenians better you shouldn't have mentioned about it Well anyway, whatever you write any more...... it is useless to have you read carefully, study the history, or something else. Good luck dude
Here is one wrong which caused the second one. I didn't say its right I think I'll follow your suggestion and stop talking to someone who doesn't make a sense to talk to, he has his points of view, we have our history. Let it be, the time will show
Dude, since you do not know who started all these, i understand your way of thinking. When you learn the Anatolian history, you'll learn the fact, i don't need to say the same thing over and over again. You are illustrating my points, if you post 3-4 more posts no claim of your diaspora will be left "not disproven". So it's better for you to stop not me. So let me tell you a joke instead One day a hunter goes hunting, sees a bear, aims, shoots, the bear survives. Approaches the hunter and say: - Dude, i'll either eat you, or .. you know.. Hunter agrees to be -you know-ed and saves his day. Next day with a big ass pain he goes back to hunting with a great ambition of vengeance, he sees the bear again and shoots, bear survives again and approaches the hunter and says; - Dude you know the deal, i'll eat you or.. you know.. Hunter gets screwed again and next day he goes hunting again this time he is sure he will hunt the bear down, he shoots the bear and bear survives again. Bear comes close and say.. - Dude are you a fag or a hunter? Just F... off will ya?
I understand exactly what you mean but without the past there is no present and without a present there isnt a future. We arent just trying to get the Turks to accept the truth but to make it a worldwide fact that this is the worst thing to ever happen to the human existance. If a genocide takes place but isnt later recognized and tried to be deleted from the history books then other countries will think its okay and try to follow their footsteps. Fortunatly the Germans accepted their crime and are now living in harmony with most Jews. We must also remember that the Germans are a civilized country with deep and beuatiful history much like Bach, Geothe, Mis Van Derohe, and others. THEIR REPUTATION WAS AT STAKE and they looked deep onto the mirror and understood exactly what happened. WHILE TURKS WERE NOMADS they moved from one place to another untill out of nowhere they started to take over places like Troy and begin an empire that was an international THREAT TO THE WORLD.(much like the Soviet Union at its time). BUT PEOPLE just wait and see how history will unfold itself sooner or later this century will be the Armenian Century it is almost time for Armenians to gain the respect they used to always have.
The best way for the Armenians to gain that respect is by becoming an economic powerhouse. No one is going to respect you because you let a bunch of Ottoman thugs murder your women and children like so many sheep. You would be better off sweeping that under the rug like the Turks are trying to do. Want respect? Build a great nation. Build a Singapore or a Taiwan or a South Korea. Build a Switzerland or a new Poland. Make something good happen in the world.
One says Turks rot in.. one says Turks are uncivilised nomads and a threat to whole world, another says ottoman thugs, one other does not know who started all these, another one says ASALA is no terror, one other knows nothing and still feels obligated to get involved, another one tries to hide these are done for seperatist purposes, another one tries to cover how much of terrorism they caused and still support, another one feels pwned and invites a bud to post his first 4 posts under this thread on a -wm forum-, or dupes who knows... In the big picture, it is pretty clear and i'm glad my points are illustrated very well, by you not me. But remember guys, there are times you can't win, despite how sure you are that you will, this is one of those
I agree. If the Armenians define "winning" as "convincing the Turks to be honest", then their cause is doomed. That's why I'm telling them to give up on that senseless quest and move on with their lives.