because like all religious people muslims pick and chose which bits they want to believe. If a muslim did want to kill non-muslims they could easily find justification for that in the quran. The fact that most muslims don't kill non-muslims only goes to show that most muslims are more civilised than the quran, Which isn't hard.
Bravo stOx, thanks for taking the time for thinking, it wont work 100% from the first time but you are showing improvements, what attracted my attention most in your post, was "only goes to show that most muslims are more civilised than the quran" now lets think again, there was a time when Muslims were strictly following Qu'ran, why they did not destroy, kill, behead ... whatever you want, all non-Muslims at that time?
They couldn't have strictly followed the quran then. The quran is very clear about what should be done to disbelievers. if people were not doing what the quran told them to do then they couldn't have possibly been strictly following it. They were doing what most do now, Picking out the bits they like and ignoring the rest.
or maybe the Qu'ran did not tell them to do that. Mahatma Ghandi was a man of peace, even thou he did not reply violence with violence when his people were facing violence and killing day and night, and their country and its resources been stolen, he was a man of peace, he once said that Islam was spread by sword, but he thought more, learned more, and later said:
Multiple passages have been posted in this thread where the quran specifically instructs muslims to use violence against unbelievers. Just because you are going to deny it in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary doesn't mean it doesn't exist, It just means you are an intellectually dishonest liar. As for Gandhi..... His opinion on something is important why?
I do not deny facts, those verses taken out of context, or interpreted by Greet Wilders, are not facts, the fact, and the logic says this is not the case, else, you won't find non-Muslims in Islamic countries since Islam started till now. you are free to believe what you want as I am free to believe what I want, nobody forced Islam on Europe or on Holland, people come to Islam there, by themselves, this might anger somebody for some purposes, others like to be parrots and repeat what hate mongers say, its up to them, but do not expect Muslims not to reply these lies. if you want quotes, I can give hundreds, from Qu'ran, Hadith, and from unbiased resources, since Islam started, till now, why should we ignore all these and say their opinion is not important, and what makes Greet Wilders opinion more important than Mahatma Ghandi, both are non-Muslims, some non-Muslims: Patriarch Ghaytho wrote: ‘The Arabs, to whom the Lord has given control over the world, treat us as you know; they are not the enemies of Christians. Indeed, they praise our community, and treat our priests and saints with dignity, and offer aid to churches and monasteries.’ Will Durant wrote: ‘At the time of the Umayyad caliphate, the people of the covenant, Christians, Zoroastrians, Jews, and Sabians, all enjoyed degree of tolerance that we do not find even today in Christian countries. They were free to practice the rituals of their religion and their churches and temples were preserved. They enjoyed autonomy in that they were subject to the religious laws of the scholars and judges.’ the Prophet stated: “Beware! Whoever is cruel and hard on a non-Muslim minority, curtails their rights, burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything from them against their free will; I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against the person on the Day of Judgment.†Caliph Abu Bakr as-Siddiq to the non-Muslims of Najran: ‘In the Name of God, the Beneficent, the Merciful. This is the written statement of God’s slave Abu Bakr, the successor of Muhammad, the Prophet and Messenger of God. He affirms for you the rights of a protected neighbor, in yourselves, your lands, your religious community, your wealth, retainers, and servants, those of you who are present or abroad, your bishops and monks, and monasteries, and all that you own, be it great or small. You shall not be deprived of any of it, and shall have full control over it…’ source and more info about non-Muslims rights in Islam...
Of course, Taken out of context. Because in the right "context" verses such as "instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers. smite them above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off" could be seen as quite friendly. If i were to say "instill terror into the hearts of muslims. Smite muslims above their necks", In what context would that not be seen as violent and barbaric? Give me a contextual framework in which that would be an acceptable thing to say.
Surah 9:29 Discussed I need something new please, I started to get bored now. man it only takes little search online answer somebody commented there "And the bible tells you to stone your children if they misbehave." now where is Greet Wilders? will be good topic for his new movie.
How can you be apart of a religion where some of the members kill and some don’t, isn’t that kind of weird?
So giving me multiple translations that say pretty much the same thing answers what exactly? Yeah all religious books are stupid and full of violence. Whats your point?
My definition of Religion which is why neither Islamic nor any religion influenced group SHOULDN’T be allowed to “take over the worldâ€. Religion is a game where adults choose a God or entity which they think creates everything. The only proof of these entities are from books “passed down, unaltered†straight down to the twenty first century. Whatever the book or resource “passed down and unaltered†says they must do, its apart of the game (religion). If the book commands them to kill someone they MUST do it regardless of it is everlastingly bad because they’re actually killing another human being (they have to pretend like they are getting a happy reward from this entity they worship so they don’t feel what we know as guilt). The book or resource which the game is based on is the only thing that matters. The book commands them to destroy anybody who doesn’t want to participate in the game. Some different players who have different versions of the game, their God entity hates when they find happiness without him getting involved. He promised them that if they don’t include him in their lives he will burn them forever, for all those who obey the book or resource will live with him and have the privilege to be a slave (YAY!). The story shall continue… The parents usually have children throughout this lifetime game. The book or resource forces them to convince everybody that the game is fun and they will get to be a slave in a pretty place some know as heaven, where they will be complete slaves (this makes the players happy, I don’t know why they’d want to be slaves). So when the players have children their children are instantly forced into the game, some difference in the game the children are to be temporarily drowned in water, this is the first step in convincing their God that they might be worthy to become a slave. The child grows up and backlash against anybody who opposes the rules of the game. The child is trained to do that and continue on the path with their children, so forth. This is a never-ending game of Religion. To be continued…
The Qua'ran doesn't say to kill all non-Muslims, it says to kill them unless they submit to living as slaves under rule by their Muslim masters. Can't you read? Here it is again for you: Qur'an 9:29: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold forbidden that which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. You can pretty this up all you want with layer after layer of lying, but this is what is being practiced now in Saudi Arabia, Iran, and every other place that the Islamists control. The Islamists have not ever given up the requirement that they hold the power of civil and criminal law over their non-Islamic subjects. Now, why on earth would a strong and free people choose to live as slaves under a bunch of Islamic overlords? Give me a good sales pitch on that one.
good question, good that we are done from "kill all non-Muslims" now, really, why are they still living here? who is locking them, they had like 1400 years to go out, but they did not, if they been living as slaves why on Earth they would stay in Islamic countries?
Your answer to the abuse Islam puts upon them is to blame them for not leaving. Why am I not surprised. Perhaps they stay because it is their home. Why should they have to leave just because they don't want to follow some religion?
hey browntwn, did you read the past few posts, or you just jumped and replied on the last post? in case you missed it, Will was saying what means Islam does not call to kill all non-Muslims, but Islam makes them live as slaves, although he as usual did not support his claims with any proof, and despite I showed him just few examples of real, written, and recorded history, but he tried to keep bluh bluhing and now saying Islam treat non-Muslims like slaves, so I asked, if that was true, why they did not leave, or react or complain instead of staying happily, now you come and jump in as if now its real thing that Islam treat non-Muslims as slaves, and you say cos its their country, lol what about the Muslims who live there? did they fall from moon like some not far from the region, and claim that this is their promised land? go read a little.. before you come bluh bluhing too, you make me feel bored really, I need something new yes but make it real and support it with proofs.
Muslims and Jews and Christians should have the right to live in any country they are born in and should have the right to practice the religion of their choice. They should not have to follow the religion of the majority. Many Islamic countries do not allow that to occur. I agree with Will. I would not want to be a Christian or Jew in Saudi Arabia or Iran.
To simplify, a game called religion will NEVER conquer the world, pretty insane. Whiles some people want to be free all people could think about is playing their freaking religious game to try and "rule the world"?