Why the "prophet" Muhammad never learned the alphabet? Even fools know it ...

I will tell you what i do believe and my opinion very directly and clearly.

I do not believe anything form the media specially US media.

I do not believe any of the tapes claimed to be from bin laden or other Taliban members.

Taliban used to fight the Soviet Union and US was in ally and was supporting Taliban then after the Soviet fall, 9/11 happened and US directly give the blame on Taliban although Taliban declined, but US insisted.

Then US started showing tapes from Bin Laden and etc, although Bin laden and his members never made any tape before that !!!

Beside the idea is illogical, no one is crazy to go make a war with the most powerful country (Currently) while he is in was with other countries just to destroy some buildings, its logical specially from a well organized well trained politically and military group like Taliban gathered from all around the word.

So, all your source of info is Media and not any media usually US media which give one picture, but did you see the other side picture or listen to there sound or what they say or believe !?

Think about it: a 12 old child who has no skills wont do it !!!

So i advice to investigate what really happened, who is the real winner of 9/11 and who is the real loser.

The pictures does not prove anything or the tapes, they can be made by afghan people who are in ally or paid from us, beside why US would care about women only in Afghanistan and why after the fall of Soviet, it was supporting Taliban before, then this is double standards and it show clearly its not women case.

If you want sources i can provide for you and you can analyze with the media source you already have seen and listen to and the source i can give and you, then you can get to a conclusion by yourself.

The prophet did not rape a child and no source say's so except Anti-Islamic sources or false sources, im sure you do not believe such a thing as its clear this is said by whom and why.

Aisha was married to the prophet by her own well and she was not forced.

When she married the prophet she was 9 and i believe it was normal at that time.

Beside you know and i know that girls get mature from the age of 11 to 14 now in the current time, but back then at that time, maybe it was different.

No true Islamic sources say that a girl or women can be forced to marry, marriage in Islam is by the acceptance and well of both genders male and female and no one can be forced in any case.

I do agree some people from Arab countries and other countries may force there girls to marry from a rich or specific man, but this is tradition and has nothing to do with Islam and so Anti-Islamic people use it to make a false face of Islam.

Finally and in reply to your question very direct and sincere:
How i feel about them?
1. Is the prophet marriage from Aisha wan normal
For me: Yes it was normal.
Why: The age of Marriage is a new thing and you can say it is a country law and back then life and things were different.

Beside a girl can get mature at 11, and lets say another girl can get mature at 14, so you can not make the age of marriage neither 11 or 14, because, maturity depends on each person, family, nation and period of time and even food you eat, that's what i believe.

2. My opinion about Women oppression in Taliban is:
Its lies to make Taliban which are an Islamic group appear with a black face and so to make it hated from everyone, even Muslims, so they can have more reasons to give for people to continue the war on Afghanistan and also they give a negative idea about Islam itself.

That's why i recommend that you read a trusted Islamic book so you can find direct and sufficient answers to your questions and thoughts.

I hope i was to point and answered your questions.

 

Dodara, thank you for your answers - yes, I do appreciate them.

Those images do not come from the American media. They come from pictures taken at the risk of their own lives, by women inside Afghanistan. Are you saying they are faked, or staged, for propaganda effect? You deny this is the Taliban, accurately represented?

If so, would you also deny what we have seen, which is the words of the Taliban itself, in stating their implementation of sharia law - are you saying this isn't the Taliban, really, either?

Do you deny that Bin Laden has closely embraced, and sought to manifest, the philosophy of Sayid Qutb, and his vision for a worldwide caliphate under sharia law, which includes the notion that there are no innocents in this scripturally-prescribed jihad - that jihad on civilians is, in fact, justified, in fulfillment of Islam, precisely because there are no innocents? That Jews are in fact, the enemy of Islam, to be exterminated?

I have gotten my information on Aisha and Muhammed, not from an anti-Muslim site, but from a Muslim hadith itself, that of Bukhari; Bukhari states Muhammed married Aisha when she was 6, and consummated the marriage, had sex with Aisha, when she was 9. He states she was given thus, by her father. Do you deny what that hadith says?

Beyond that, I am more concerned with today. Today, we have clergy, on tape, saying it is perfectly within Islam that a 9-year old girl is given in marriage to an adult male; we have members here, saying that 7-9 year old girls are, in fact, adults, so no crime of pedophilia occurs. Are you saying this cleric's statements are staged, a part of western propaganda? Are you saying the words of Muslim members themselves, saying either (1) a child of 7-9 is actually an adult, many times, so for that child to be given in marriage, and made to have sex with an adult male, isn't pedophilia; or (2) regardless of whether what Muhammed did is right or wrong, it doesn't matter - his actions are not to be questioned? - are you claiming this is western propaganda?

Do you deny it is an aspect of Islam that individual believers are not supposed to take another's "word for it," that it is, in fact, the believer's duty to investigate, probe, ask questions, about any aspect of Islam, and conclude for oneself?

These are sincere questions, Dodara. Thank you.

 

Yes, i believe it is a propaganda and that's my opinion which depends on facts and proofs i know and i can provide, but its not the case.

Taliban implanted sharia law, but the way media and other involved groups presented sharia law to you and to the world is false and full of lies and that my opinion and beliefs again.

I can not comment here, you need to provide me with source of this claim and i do have to read the source and then go and read the original sources and books of Qutb regarding the issue and compare and analyze them.

I already explained this issue, you can accept the explanation and you might not, in the end, its something which depends on each person to accept what he think is acceptable, what might seem illogical and abnormal to you, might seem very logical and normal to me and inversely.

Can you tell me what is the best age of marriage for you and can you tell what is the best age marriage back then and please explain why and based on what?

No, i did not say that, you are now mixing this with that.

1. I did not ever heard that age of marriage was decided in any religion or before in old times.

2. I think its a new laws which exist in Europe and and US and its either age 16 or 18, but in most countries of the world it does not exist, so your actually trying to discuss an issue based on a law from your culture or country and you have been used to and convinced by and claiming indirectly its the correct thing to do by saying that the marriage of Aisha at age 9 to the prophet is unacceptable.

As for me I believe there is no such a thing called age of marriage because if there is a certain rule which decide the age of marriage then it must logically depends on puberty and it can not depend on any thing else like education, work or anything else, because if it does depends on education then many people at all ages are uneducated and if it depends on work, then many people at all ages are jobless and etc...

So if and i say if we want to decide an age for marriage then the most logical thing to do is base it according to puberty, but puberty does not have a certain age which is a well known fact and puberty age is different from different gender's, from different nations and from different persons as i explained before and so you can not base marriage according to a certain age becuase puberty does not have a certain age.

Then in my logical limited thinking, the law of marriage at age 16 and 18 is not based on anything logical that convince me, and then your claim that the marriage of the prophet to Aisha when she was 9 is wrong is also illogical to me because for me, i do not believe there is such a thing called age of marriage, which i have explained why.

And i think the prophet by marrying Khadejah when he was young and she was older and when he married Aisha when she was young he was older has proven practically there is no age for marriage, which does not mean lets go make our children marry at young age, but instead simply means there is no certain age for marriage.

So in conclusion:
I believe in normal logical manner, age for marriage can not be decided, becuase the marriage depends on the person himself, his physiology, education, work, beauty, age, culture and more importantly if he/she wants to marry or not, so many factors play in marriage all together and thus we can not base marriage on a single factor of these.

And Islam has gave the rights for both genders to marry by there own well and acceptance and did not decide an age of marriage neither made it obligatory on any of the genders or force them.

So i believe Islam by not setting an age for marriage is indeed supported by logic and nature, and its left to the person well to marry or not, marriage is an issue which is a person is free to do or not to do and no one is obligated to marry no one in Islam in any case or at any age If he do not want to.

Also, you can not judge Islam from the practices and words of some people who are in name or just born as Muslims in some nations or some clerics who wants to justify there desires by religion.

Judge Islam by the Qur'an and Hadeeth which are the true sources of Islam.

Islam has always asked Muslims and not only Muslims but all people from all religions and even atheists to investigate, think, observe and study, etc, in many verses and even the first verses in the Holy Qur'an sent to Mohamed peace be upon him started with asking the prophet and thus the Muslims and thus anyone who read the Qur'an to read and then it stated a scientific fact in:

Surah Al-Alaq (The Clot)

So, Islam urged people to study, investigate, question, etc in the Holy Qur'an in many many verses and in the Hadeeth and the fact that the Holy Qur'an has started asking us to read which i just provided above is more than sufficient to prove that and more than sufficient to destroy any claim or thinking that Muslims have to believe blindly... As i do not see the need to provide more verses to prove it, although there are many directly and indirectly and i think you know some of them, But if you would like me to provide you with more verses regarding this issue to make it very clear and final what Islam has requested and asked us to do regarding this issue, then please let me know and i will do it with pleasure.

Finally, the difference between Islam and other religions and whats is characteristic of Islam is that Islam is based on Knowledge and then beliefs, the rest of religions are based only on beliefs without knowledge, this can be easy proven.

I again hope that my answers were to point, helpful and clarifying things and i request form you to concentrate in one subject, that is if you wish to continue discussing with me, so we can discuss it in a sufficient and positive manner, rather than discussing many insufficiently.

 

So, Surah Al-Alaq is also mentioning the "disbelievers".

Is there a Surah which do not mention the "disbelievers"?

I don't see "an urge to study" in the text. Well maybe I don't know how to read. I see another speech hate, one of many in the quran, this time against Abu Jahl.
Surah Al-Alaq is like Surah 2, which is basically the beginning of the quran, another speech of hate against the "disbelievers".
No wonder that according to Islam, "disbelieving" is a worst sin than murder, it just follows directly. No wonder that authors like salman rushdie or artists like Theo van gogh should be killed.
This is everything I managed to learn so far from the quran. what's else is there? teach me something. SOMETHING

 

Actually the way you have explained the explanation already provided to the verse and changed its meaning, shows your trying to miss explain the already provided explanation.

Its funny you are surprised that this Surah is speaking about a disbeliever which conclude that you did not know that this Surah does speak about him which conclude you lake any kind of info about this Surah, but still you change the explanation of highly educated scholars in Islam religion, history and events, Qur'an and Arabic language, etc to your own explanation.

13. Tell me if he (the disbeliever, Abu Jahl) denies (the truth, i.e. this Qur'an), and turns away?

This verse is speaking about (Abu Jahl) who was a disbeliever and it does not speak about the all disbelievers as you claimed and presented it, although the Qur'an speaks about the disbelievers in many verses and other parts of the Qur'an.

But you have ignored He and disbeliever and made it to disbelievers and made He to more than one and then made it about hate to fit your claim.

Beside this is an off topic, but in any case, the Holy Qur'an speaks about everything which include the believers, disbelievers, Christan, Jews, Muslims. peace, war, charity, rich, poor, orphan, scientific facts, sun, moon, universe, even iron, animals, foods, fire, water, hell, heaven, Lairs etc...

 

I see. But I am not satisfied.
When you speak about the "jews" and want people to hate them, its never enough to just speak about the "jews", usually, you have to given a particular "jew" examples, like this.

But nevermind, the point that really bothers me is:
Why the quran mentions the "evildoers", the criminal "disbelievers", BEFORE it mentions "peace, war, charity, rich, poor, orphan, scientific facts, sun, moon, universe, even iron, animals, foods, etc".
And please don't answer again:

"but the quran mentions every! peace, war, charity, rich, poor, orphan, scientific facts, sun, moon, universe, even iron, animals, foods, etc"

I asked:
Why the disbelievers come on the front page of the journal and not in a small side article inside?
I am not attacking your book. Just trying to think logically about it. Its a theological question. you know what "theological" means? if not: god must have had a reason to put the disbelievers before the sun and moon. What was that?

This is the last time (I think its the 5th time) that I am trying to get a decent answer.

 

Believe me, i do not care if your satisfied or not.

And previously form your post:

You lake basic knowledge about Surat Al-Alq and you don't know what is speaking about and you are surprised its speaking about a disbeliever and you changed it and made it to disbelievers and then change the whole meaning of the explanation which is provided by highly educated scholars in Islam religion, history and events, Qur'an and Arabic language.

You change the words, you change the meaning and change the explanation of the already provided explanation after you have confirmed you lake basic knowledge about it and then you play dump:

As i said,
1. I do not care if you satisfied or not.
2. You opened an off-topic and provided us with false explanations and lies which is typical form you as we have knew you from other threads and posts.

 

Its cool man, I did not expect that you will try.
It is perceived as a kind of sin to a Muslim, to try to think theology. You are even afraid to ask yourself my question and tackle it.
Islam is not about interpretations, but all about blindly following every word in the book without doubt, this is the impression you are giving me.

my question again:
Why Surah 2, which comes after the very short Surah 1, is dealing with the "disbelievers", saying that:

• GOD seals their minds and their hearing, and their eyes are veiled.
• They have incurred severe retribution.
• In their minds there is a disease. Consequently, GOD augments their disease.
• They have incurred a painful retribution for their lying.
• In fact, they are evildoers, but they do not perceive.
• When they meet the believers, they say, "We believe," but when alone with their devils, they say, "We are with you; we were only mocking."

This is in fact the opening speech of the quran. Why not a more peaceful speech about the birds and the nature, for example?

Until a Quran/Islam expert will convince me otherwise, or at least suggest a reasonable alternative, I have to stick to my current understanding, namely:

The Qur'an was written in the 7th century and its goal audience were warriors, whose combat spirit had to be kept high to improve their ability to conquest. It is a "military march", a violent book, and not a humane book, which explains the emphasis put on hate speeches and its inherit violence, in countless locations from the 2nd to the last surah.

A very simple, clear, historically coherent and plausible explanation. No?

 

I am extremely convinced that the talebans (who btw consider themselves true muslims) are extremely barbaric and backward people.

It would be much better for Pakistan and Afghanistan if the Islamic schools - Madrasas (taleban training camps) were never created.

 

Dodara, and others interested in this discussion, as I mentioned in the other thread - will be on break for awhile, will properly respond on my return.

-Paul

 

Pot calling the kettle black. You are a Jew, aren't you? You listen to your rabbis, do not contradict them on what they declare as permissible or not permissible, and their writings and interpretations in the Talmud are considered an "Oral Torah", i.e. in other words, on par with God. How is this different from your accusation of "not to think theology" against Muslims?

FYI, Muslims do not have rabbis, priests or clergy whom they have to listen to. They only have scholars and learned men who can be wrong at times and are not afraid to admit so. There is no such thing in Islam as a "sin" to question or think about theology in Islam. In other words, you are simply making up rules here.

Before trying to make your ridiculous comments about Islam, go and take care of your own religion first.

Funny Yahood, always trying to be a busybody and poke their nose into others' affairs...while failing to take care of their own!

 

Sorry, just caught this. (and in partial reply, Dodara, to your comments); so,

Is un-Islamic, then?

 

Take care and have a nice time with your family.

I actually would like to concentrate in one subject as i requested before, and then we can discuss other topics.

As a quick response which i already mentioned in one of my previous replies, Islam is different from other religions in that:
Islam depends on Knowledge and Faith together and each of them lead to the other.

I will explain this matter sufficiently later, put please pick up a subject and lets concentrate and discuss it sufficiently and then we can discuss another and so on.

 

Here is a general reply:

 

I worked recently with a loans company.
Out of 1000 muslim customers how many , based on previous defaults were eligable for a new loan?
About 4
The faith is dying.
No one respects a muslim
They dont keep their word or their bonds.
World would be better if the faith was just phased out.
The true teaching of the K are corrupted.
Angry fools blindly following idiots.
Consider Buddism or Rasta religions.
Its a cult not a religion

 

We are discussing subjects in Islam from Qur'an and Hadeeth, not what Muslims in your company or around you do or said or are qualified for.

Thanks for your advise, but Islam is far more better for me as a source of Knowledge and Faith.

 

hmmm...
By saying "knowledge", are you referring to this kind of "knowledge", or this kind, or maybe this kind?

Edit:
I will rephrase.
As I told you, I tried to read the quran but in Surah 2 I stopped, It was already too much of a hate speech for me. So I never read the quran.
Then please give me an example for knowledge that can be found in the quran(/Islam), that I am not aware of.

 

One of my website has a pay per lead affiliate program.
Always when I had a webmaster applying from Indonesia and Malaysia, I knew that less than 24hours after I approve him, he will create a couple of fraudulent leads. so far, this has been the case (more than 100 cases without exception!)
Until I've had enough with it. Presently, when a webmaster whose IP points to Malaysia or Indonesia is signing up for my affiliate program, I write "Thank you for your application, we will review it and get back to you as soon as possible only in case of approval", but I don't even waste a new record in my affiliates database table: his application is not recorded anywhere

 

Would someone seriously explain what it means to say that "Islam is a religion of knowledge"???

 

This is a proof that Mohammad didn't write Quran himself. It seems like you have no idea about the how the life was in 1400s in Arabia. There wasn't Oxford, MIT or middle school.