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Why so much hatred toward HTML/CSS noobs?

Discussion in 'HTML & Website Design' started by Gary-SC, Jun 3, 2019.

  1. kk5st

    kk5st Prominent Member

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    I particularly liked that I could get the bare-bones Paradox DBMS engine and embed it in my own app. I mostly wrote inventory control/shipping order apps in Turbo Pascal (the OO* version of Pascal) and stuck the db engine in.

    *TBH I didn't use OO class inheritance that much.
    kk5st, Jun 10, 2019 IP
  2. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    ... and don't go thinking this distaste applies towards all tools. There are many tools that do help, and tools that USED to help that were nothing more than a bait and switch.

    One of the most helpful tools -- at least when working with code other people wrote -- is the "document inspector" built into most browsers. You right click on the element you want to look at, and hit "inspect". Boom, typically on the left you have a code-like representation of the DOM. NOTE, this is not the actual HTML source code of the page, it's the live document including anything generated by CSS or JavaScript!. This lets you see what's the current actual state of the page is. When you have an element in that live DOM tree selected, the right side panel is broken up into a tabbed interface that lets you explore all the classes, ID's, CSS, and other such information applied to the element, it's actual render sizes in pixels, how the box model is being applied, and so forth.

    that might not seem all that useful at first glance -- I didn't entirely get it at first as when working with my own code it servers ZERO purpose! But the moment you start doing rewrites for other people or try adding your own style to already completed sites/pages, it becomes an invaluable and indispensable tool... and again it's built into ALL modern browsers; as well as both Safari and IE10+.

    Browsers themselves are very important tools, where you should be testing in ALL of them you can get to work on your host OS. This is where editors with that "preview pane" crap often fall short as people rely on that to build the entire page, then wonder why it doesn't work in _fill_in_the_blank_ browser. It is SO easy to paint yourself into a corner by relying on just one browser for testing, particularly if you're just learning. Some people piss and moan about how "testing in all browsers at each step is SO MUCH WORK!"... I'm like "really? Alt-tab F5 is a lot of work?". They don't even know enough about the OS they're using to be doing this stuff at that point.

    It runs even deeper than that. Think on this, what is their actual message when they claim these systems are somehow "easier" or "simpler"? There's that pesky inverse of "name calling" implying that HTML and CSS are somehow "harder"... but more than that?

    They're pulling the same insulting garbage as 12 step programs. What's the first step of a 12 step program?

    VERY first thing they indoctrinate you with?
    "I am powerless to help myself!"

    The second thing?
    "Only with the help of a power greater than myself can I overcome"


    All these tools/frameworks/pre-processors are actually doing the same thing. They are for all intents and purposes telling you that

    1) You're not smart enough to handle HTML and CSS on your own

    2) you need our greater "knowledge" to help you as it's the only way to overcome.

    ... and to me that's more insulting and offensive than if you managed to work every racial slur and expletive that has ever existed into a single sentence.

    By duping beginners into using their tool or system, they create a level of dependency preventing you from rationally analyzing the situation. Many people therein never achieve the critical thinking required to even form a rational thought on the topic. Because they can get A result regardless of the actual quality -- with their knowledge of quality effectively nonexistent -- it creates that pesky confirmation bias preventing them from even considering another approach, and often getting outright hostile at the notion.

    As Carlin joked, "You want a good bulls*** story, HOLY S***".

    If I'm resorting to insulting language towards these carny barkers and dimestore hoodoo scammers, it is because unlike them I actually believe that most people ARE capable of understanding and doing this stuff. I actually believe in you people, and that if we can get enough people to think rationally and to take the time to learn the entire reason these specifications exist, it will be a better world for everyone involved. It's called empathy.

    But like society at large, we don't live in a world where empathy and concern for others is acceptable, much less encouraged. Those so deluded and the con artists peddling this trash certainly don't want people complaining, questioning, or challenging their utter and complete nonsense. This is why "soft language" and toxic positivity are the order of the day, as it creates and reinforces the cognitive dissonance needed to keep their scams afloat. It's why their favorite targets are the people who insist that no amount of conflict is acceptable; the "If you can't say anything nice" crowd of status-quo FTW morons.

    Said promotion of the "just be a good little drone" attitudes being most apparent when they can bash you over the head with false claims, call you an idiot or moron for DARING to contest their claims, call you an a**hole for your "attitude being wrong" -- but how DARE you respond in kind with comparable language. It's the classic issue of those who claim the moral high ground rarely if ever being worthy of it. The "do what we say, not as we do" attitude when it comes to conversation.

    There's a comic page I want to link to in regards to this, but I believe it would be a rule violation... but I'm going to PM it to you because it PERFECTLY explains the attitude shown by the administration/moderators of those "echo chambers" I mentioned, and is a significant part of how they maintain that level of control over their "faithful".
    deathshadow, Jun 11, 2019 IP
  3. Gary-SC

    Gary-SC Member

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    I spent enough time learning, practicing and experimenting with HTML/CSS to know that I *can* do this in text editor. I also find it FAR more NATURAL to write code than dragging and dropping in Webflow, to do this stuff. It's been a liberating experience, to be honest. In fact, I now think it's kind of fun to take everyday writing in a text file and transform into HTML and then use CSS to render it the way I want. Yes, I had to learn a lot, it was grueling at times, and I'm sure there is a lot more to learn. But, I don't think it's rocket science.
    Gary-SC, Jun 15, 2019 IP