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Why Most Submissions Are Rejected By DMOZ

Discussion in 'ODP / DMOZ' started by frederrick, Nov 8, 2007.

  1. Anonymously

    Anonymously Notable Member

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    #61
    For the record about 50% of my time has been spent dealing with submissions and at present a great deal of time going through sites we have listed that our machines say don't work etc. Each one is checked by hand and we try to see if there is a replacement. I have dozens of those I want to go through before I ever get back to submissions.

    But it is interesting that people want to tell me how I should spend my spare time, I'd hate to collect stamps around you guys you would want to tell me which country to collect in, what year, where to stick them and how much time a day I had to spend doing it.
    Just to put that phrase into context.

    So I might edit today, depends on the weather and if I prefer to go out for a walk or play with the new cat. Maybe I'll get down to doing some tomorrow there are a lot of 404's to deal with, may be not we have friends coming. But hey, perhaps I should put my life on hold to make sure I do the required number of edits to satisfy the webmasters on here. But that is a task that cannot be accomplished.

    Do join us.
    SEMrush
     
    Anonymously, Jan 18, 2009 IP
    SEMrush
  2. Qryztufre

    Qryztufre Prominent Member

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    #62
    Notice that the end user is not complaining... they stopped showing up years ago when the webmasters started to fuss ;)

    Something is missing with how the ODP functions. They are not there for the webmaster, yet collect the works of such webmasters. They are not there to list the sites of webmasters, but offer a link to submit such sites.

    And you are more then correct, people have been complaining for years. Ever stop to think if some of the complaints could be founded on truth? The ODP has been falling, and as time goes on it's been gaining velocity. I really do hope that the AOL staff that is in charge of DMOZ 2.0 sees that there is trouble and fixes it... if they allow the mindset of the editors to stay in DMOZ1.0 the future is doomed (for the ODP).
     
    Qryztufre, Jan 18, 2009 IP
  3. makrhod

    makrhod Peon

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    #63
    Of course not. Why should they? They have free access to the largest human-edited directory on the internet.
    So there's absolutely no need for them to post endless complaints on public forums about how the ODP isn't doing what they want. Because it is. :)
     
    makrhod, Jan 18, 2009 IP
  4. Qryztufre

    Qryztufre Prominent Member

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    #64
    Which also explains all the rave reviews from the end user? :rolleyes:

    Seriously, is there really an end user to the ODP that is NOT a webmaster? Every time I've mentioned the ODP/DMOZ I'm met with blank stares from everyone that does not own a web page, and even from most of the people that do own web pages.

    Are you sure the ODP really knows who their end user is?
     
    Qryztufre, Jan 18, 2009 IP
  5. Anonymously

    Anonymously Notable Member

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    #65
    Who cares who users the directory?

    We design a directory for people to find sites categorised, but we do not try and check how many do or who does. I am really not interested, I enjoy building it, I enjoy building it as a hobby, not beholden to anyone except my peers.

    When people collect stamps do they have any relationship with the country who has printed them. Are they beholden to collect stamps from every country there is. Are they not allowed by some sort of law to collect stamps from every country who says to them 2We have cracking stamps you have got to collect them"
    The collector collects and country s/he likes/fancies and colour s/he fancies. Can the countries demand anything from them, object when they offer stamps and the collector says "sorry yours are the wrong colour" or "I can't look at the smple stamps you have sent this month aunty Maude is coming to stay. Are they corrupt, lazy. Have they forgotten their obligation to the issuing country? They have some stamps from them so they are obliged to ensure that whatever ele is happening in their lives to collect every single one that country offers.

    Of course not its just a hobby, they do for themselves.

    Collecting and listing sites is a hobby for us, we try and put them in the best order and offer that for anyone who cares to look or use. We collect the sites without charge to the owners and without cost to the user. So Q, this is a misleading meaningless comment
    and
    Yes, its anyone who wishes to browse the largest human edited directory of categorised websites which does not take payment from webmasters for listing, is based on unique content and not how flashy a site is and does not charge for its use because it uses editors who work voluntary in the hobby of their choice - editing.

    Do we know how many people use it? No, Do I care, No.
     
    Anonymously, Jan 18, 2009 IP
  6. TechGurus

    TechGurus Peon

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    #66
    I don't like the whole...you should only submit your site if you previously submitted it pre 2007. What if your competition writes a crappy title and submits your site. We all try to get in Dmoz as we all know it's the best.
    I own the #1 Helio dealership and website in the country ( with top awards ) and can't get in their directory. My competition that lies and says, "Buy a phone and get 2 months free" is listed. I don't get it! I think the editor is my competitor. Who hasn't thought of being an editor, just to be able to approve their own submissions. myself, I wouldn't do it, but I'm sure many have.

    John
     
    TechGurus, Jan 19, 2009 IP
  7. joeventura

    joeventura Well-Known Member

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    #67
    Yes surely you see lots of 404s because many websites go away between the time they submitted to ODP and two years later when they get to the top of the pile.
     
    joeventura, Jan 19, 2009 IP
  8. Caesar1

    Caesar1 Peon

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    #68
    I haven't seen anything to suggest this, many of the 404's I see are within a years time and maybe its a good thing that those sites were not listed.
     
    Caesar1, Jan 19, 2009 IP
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  9. makrhod

    makrhod Peon

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    #69
    This has all been explained many times, but I'll give it another go, in the hope that each time it is repeated, at least one more person reads/understands it. :)
    • There is no concept like this in the ODP.
    • Suggested sites do not enter any sort of queue leading to review.
    • There is no orderly progression leading closer to review.
    • Time frames do not exist.
    The actual process has already been described in detail in "What Happens After I Submit my Site to DMOZ?" in the Official ODP Blog, but here's a condensed version:
    1. Someone suggests a site (their own or anyone else's)
    2. It goes into a collection of suggestions.
    3. When an editor feels like looking at that collection, they can select any of them to review. (There is no requirement to look at suggestions at all, let alone to look at them in any particular order.)
    4. If the site is listable, the volunteer can add it to the directory. Or they can return it to the collection to await review by someone else. The editor does not have to do anything with it.
    5. All editor actions are logged, and inappropriate or abusive treatment of sites can be detected and addressed.
     
    makrhod, Jan 19, 2009 IP
  10. Qryztufre

    Qryztufre Prominent Member

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    #70
    I think that maybe one of the biggest problems with the ODP is that too many editors don't care who uses it...

    Though, I bet that bbqgrant and emi1y care, as they are the staff concerned with Audience Growth. And I'd hope that if anyone cares they do, and if they do care, then it's the mindset of the editors that do not care they should be looking to change.

    Yeah, yeah, it's just a hobby, but its end result is in the public eye, and it's likely more then just a hobby to them (they are getting paid).
     
    Qryztufre, Jan 20, 2009 IP
  11. makrhod

    makrhod Peon

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    #71
    I presume you are referring to AOL staff?
    Yes, they are paid. But they have almost nothing to do with the work of building the directory, which is still done (as always) by volunteers.
    So the people looking for good websites are still the ones who do it just as a hobby. :)
     
    makrhod, Jan 20, 2009 IP
  12. TheSyndicate

    TheSyndicate Prominent Member

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    #72
    It takes time i guess i submitted many of my sites but i never got a YES back. So should i try every year? or how long should i wait for a NO
     
    TheSyndicate, Jan 20, 2009 IP
  13. Qryztufre

    Qryztufre Prominent Member

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    #73
    The volunteers are backed by a corporation that PAYS someone, so money is invested, and it should be viewed as a BAD investment if the people volunteering do not care...as if the people doing the real work do not care, how do you think the end result will turn out?

    *shrug* I guess you do get what you pay for... though it would be nice if the editors started to care.

    Do you care?
     
    Qryztufre, Jan 20, 2009 IP
  14. robjones

    robjones Notable Member

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    #74
    If volunteers gathered to build the worlds largest art collection, they can care about the collection without being excessively concerned about artists who are miffed because theirs isnt included.

    You keep referring to the directory as if there is an obligation on their part with regard to listing suggested sites. The collection analogy is the best way I know to explain that the view you're pushing misidentifies the focus of the project. I cant require a collector to include my work in his collection, and that is exactly what you are continuing to insist... that the collector is obligated to perform duties on behalf of the artists. Just not the case, regardless of the wishes of the artists.

    There ARE many directories that follow the model you're discussing, and they pay a guy to be on the other end ready to make a yes/no call in a timely manner. Those seeking that service can submit to those directories, and simply understand the Dmoz model is different and does not involve any such guarantees. Admittedly I once had suggestions about what I thought might improve their model and failed to get them implemented, but still the fact that both models are present on the web means you get a more diverse mix of sites between the two. For better or worse, Dmoz tends to have a better selection of non-commercial sites than many directories based on the paid model.

    I realize you are aware of all this, so I'm not intentionally reiterating it to you (See also: "beating a dead horse" :))... just for others that might see this. Hopefully it provides some clarification. :)
     
    robjones, Jan 20, 2009 IP
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  15. Qryztufre

    Qryztufre Prominent Member

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    #75
    I am looking at it from the view point of the STAFF. The PAID part of DMOZ should have at least a care about the end user, as they have TWO paid members concerned with AUDIENCE GROWTH... that does imply that they care about the end user.

    Though, I guess you are correct... as the original point of the ODP was a listing service for it's founding members :rolleyes: so it's really no wonder that it's perfectly fine to brush off the supposed end user.

    As for me keeping on about listing suggested sites, if you look closely I'm actually one of the people that feel they need to remove the suggest url link...as that would be more inline with the *needs* of the editors...as they are after all the end user (as they seemingly don't care about anyone else).
     
    Qryztufre, Jan 20, 2009 IP
  16. Anonymously

    Anonymously Notable Member

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    #76
    No one, especially editors gets paid any more if more or less people see the directory, there is no finance involved in more people being attracted than less.
    No I don't care, in the sense that it is of no interest to me who does or does not look at the directory, what I do care passionately about, or I would not spend hours of my time on it, is building the largest human edited directory, based on sites with unique content categorised as accurately as we as a body of editors can make it, for anyone, free of charge, who cares to use it.

    If no one uses it then I still want to build it. If webmasters find that difficult....tough.

    Just as I collect stamps and have no concern for the countries or concern for their producing stamps, so I have no concern for webmasters and if their site is listed or not, I do care if we have the best representation and clearly in some areas we don't, I do think some of the webmasters on here have excellent sites which we have so far not listed, and one day I hope we find them, but meanwhile editors continue to collect and list the sites that appeal to them in areas they are interested. Just like I collect stamps from one country and not another, that does not mean one is more value than the other, but one is my interest and passion and other countries will not brow beat me into collecting their stamps if that is not my passion, however nice they are. But in a collective someone, someday will want their stamps. Someone some day will review your site and perhaps list it.:D
     
    Anonymously, Jan 20, 2009 IP
  17. snooks

    snooks Well-Known Member

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    #77
    I also dont care who looks at the ODP.

    My fun is dervied from finding websites and then listing them, hopefully being seen or used by someone. But like some people do crossword puzzles, which in itself has no real purpose, I edit the sites. I enjoy starting with nothing and then building a whole regional category for a town. I did one category recently that had 18 sites. Over a week or so, i grew that to 186 sites. That was fun.....the town is now well represented.

    As Annonomously said, some people collect stamps, some do crossword puzzles.....we choose to edit sites and catalogue them. ;)
     
    snooks, Jan 20, 2009 IP
  18. makrhod

    makrhod Peon

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    #78
    Some of us are sad enough to do crossword puzzles and jigsaws and volunteer editing. :p
     
    makrhod, Jan 20, 2009 IP
  19. Qryztufre

    Qryztufre Prominent Member

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    #79
    WOW... Is there an editor out there that actually does care about who looks at the ODP?

    This thread speaks volumes about why there are so many issues within the project, none of the people doing the work care about it.
     
    Qryztufre, Jan 21, 2009 IP
  20. makrhod

    makrhod Peon

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    #80
    Er, what?
    You've just quoted from one of several posts from editors confirming that they do care about the directory. Maybe you need to read them again. ;)
     
    makrhod, Jan 21, 2009 IP