Hi there! I recently joined the Digital Point forums, I've been a member for about 3 weeks now, I'm a designer, and I noticed that most designers here are selling their work for a few bucks only, I remember I saw a thread with something like "Win $1 , Design me a good Logo!" WHAT?! First of all $1! You have to be kissing, and second, for "...a good logo" , this is really ridiculous. I mean The worse thing is that there were actually some "designers" that designed a logo for this guy, come on! We are selling cheap design and they are offering a few bucks because they know that someone will do it! Design is an art, and it is not an easy thing to do. Take a look at SitePoint's marketPlace, the cheapest design contest is for $100 and the results are much better! What do you think?! DON'T LET GOOD DESIGN DIE JUST FOR A FEW BUCKS!!! DESIGNERS!!! RESPECT YOURSELF, RESPECT YOUR TIME AND RESPECT YOUR WORK!!!! DON'T SELL CHEAP!! Thanks!
You need to consider that many designers on this forum and other sites live in different countries, $1 to a designer living in India for a cheap design that takes them 5 minutes may very well be the equivalent of $10 US meaning that they can live off doing some quick designs. I know what your saying about respect yourselves but you must remember that everyones economic system is different so one mans trash (or pennies) is another mans treasure.
The problem isn't just design, it's also development, hosting, domain name sales, etc. I am first a web developer, can I compete with free applications like blogs, content management, etc? Can I compete with free or very cheap hosting? I decided to focus on my own sites. It's true you can get 3 decent logo comps plus revisions for $20 from 12 time zones away. I don't need to build a content management forum or blog applications, I can download them for free. I just need to focus on my web business and code whatever customization I want. I can get someone to do link building for $0.14 per submission in a country I only hear about in the soccer world. I can get 500 words of good copy written for $10 (expensive since the writer was in the US). It's kind of the reality of a global market, many things you can buy cheaply, you just have to figure out if you can find a market where you don't compete with the globe. I would think big corporate clients are still spending huge amounts on things the little guy can find for pennies.
Yes, I agree with your guys, but It's also our fault, because people tend to abuse of other people's work, because they know that there will be someone designing for $1 out there, It's not fair , It's in us to change that and say; "$1? Hold on Sir, I've spent time, and money improving and developing my skills, it doesn't matter if the job only takes me 10 minutes." Do you understand what I'm trying to say? But I agree with you.
I see what your saying in fact one of my friends (whom is a professional graphics designer) tells me off constantly for paying people $3 dollars for logo designs that would cost $50 however considering that I am a poor college student paying $50 or even $20 for a design eats away from my budget also as a good business man I must always bargain for less even if I know its practically getting it for free I still must do it. Its kinda like using cheap labor such as what companies do or employers when people go on strike, you know its wrong however you have a job to get done and the lowest price at the same quality is always the best decision.
Everyone should think that if he or she can provide that kind of quality or designs which is being offered at SP? Having good ideas is different thing and implementing those ideas to a professional design/logo is different. If we think that we can provide that quality then why we are wasting our time in cheap contests? I am new to DP, so I might be wrong, but I havn't seen more then 1 or may be 2 designers who have won more then 1 contest in sitepoint. I can give you the name of those designers, but this will be off the topic. And more... many top rated designer of DP havn't won a single contest in SP. Does it not shows how quality designers we (including me) are? When buyers are not serious then how can be the sellers like us?
@ alliance.. i sure got to admit that.. i mean.. we all should.. its our work.. i don't know why people can't understand that.. its not just a 10min work.. its our time, our creativity, our work, our health, our pride.. everything man.. @ nicerolex.. i agree as a business man that lowest price at the same quality is always the best.. but then.. i have some of my own ethics.. if i hire somebody.. i have to see the work, the quality, the time and at last the effort.. i have to pay the fee for his work and effort.. not letting him takeaway what i throw.. @ for all.. why can't you people respect others.. what if it is a business.. workers don't become mindless machines when its a business.. A HUMBLE REQUEST : please make gentle deed and do a gentle man business not a piggy thing !
I Agree Alliance, Designing is not just time, It's skill and knowledge, Same as you go to a private sking doctor and he will charge you like 150$ for 35 minutes visit, It's not his time that he sells, He sells his knowledge. The prices here are ridicilious and you have made a great point, I'll support any upcoming 'system' to raise the prices.
"that most designers here " wrong, they are not designers, lol Wasted, there will not be any system I think, it's a free public forum. That's it. There is one way to avoid it. Simply don't concentrate on DP for business. Or no more than 10%.
I felt the exact same way as alliance does, after I spent some time on DP. The contests are fun, especially when you win a few here and there... but eventually, you get frustrated, feeling like everyone is underselling you. After awhile, I got to the point where I could be ok with the following facts: 1) Many DP'ers are from places where the dollar means a lot more (as was pointed out above); 2) Many buyers on DP don't have much money to spend; 3) Some buyers on DP have low design standards or knowledge, meaning they don't expect much, so they don't expect to pay much; 4) Many buyers on DP don't have knowledge of the graphic design industry, or what a strong logo/brand really means to their company. Your logo/brand is what people know you by, remember you by. If it's weak or unprofessional, or looks like it was thrown together in MS Word, your company looks weak and unprofessional. (But then again, many buyers want a logo for their website that they just threw together, haven't even programmed yet, and may completely forget about in 2 weeks, so a strong brand isn't exactly a priority.) 5) Many buyers on DP don't have knowledge of the industry's standard rates. Meaning that they don't realize that many large agencies and design firms would charge upwards of $60-$80/hr for the logo they want to pay $3 for... which leads me to #6... 6) ...many DP designers are amateurs, with no professional experience in the business. That's not a knock on them, they're doing their best, I'm sure, but as in most other professions, if you have very little training and/or experience besides self-taught skills, you usually can't be considered "highly skilled" at what you do. So, it's the old "you get what you pay for" thing... a $3 logo is most often pretty poor, and unsucessful as a brand, from what I've seen. 6) If you want to enjoy the DP forums, and be satisfied with what you get out of them, you have to realize that you're just not going to make tons of money, for the most part. As SEOLinker said above, you can't concentrate on DP for a majority of your income. This is what I've done, for what it's worth. It's worked out pretty well for me: - Enter some contests now and then, knowing for the most part, chances are you won't win. But your name and work will continuously be put out for others to see, and that can get you clients. It has for me many times. - Start a thread in the "Design" forum, showcasing your work, or at least linking to your portfolio somewhere. When you do a job for a client you met through DP, kindly ask them to leave some positive feedback for you in the thread, which will be a good testimonial for you, and bump your thread to the top again, where potential new clients can see it. - Look through the forums for people requesting work, and bid on jobs you like. Many threads looking for a designer will have people posting their "I'll do this for $3" posts, but I've found that many professional people and companies use DP to find designers, and they simply don't trust someone who's doing it that cheap. Or, honestly, they want to work with someone who speaks English well. These types of clients are perfect, because if you can sell yourself well, they will think "Ok, I have a cheap guy who doesn't communicate well, and isn't very experienced, or a guy who's a little pricier, but is proven to be reliable (testimonials), and I can communicate my needs better." Who would you choose? So, bottom line, DP is an awesome place to find work, if you work at it. Just don't get frustrated with being undersold, because there's just no way that you can get some people to change. You just have to do your best to find the good clients who appreciate the value of good design, and impress the hell out of them so they come back when they need more work done. Good luck!
Just to clarify: My post above was not to imply that we designers should just "suck it up" and whore ourselves out, working for pennies. Quite the opposite. Stand strong in your confidence that your work and time is valuable!
I totally agree with you Mac_crazy, the point above are absolutely correct. And I agree with all of you guys, I'm happy that you too. nicerolex, natkhatgirl , Hecky, Surya, Wasted, SEOLinker, and Mac_crazy, Thanks for your ideas and opinions, very valuable for the design community here at DP. Now, maybe if the contest holder offers more money, I don't know something more reasonable like $150 or at least $100, the entries would be much better and the quality of the contests will grow.
You know what the really sad thing is though? That contests for $30 and $500 usually get the same results . The main factor that controls the number of entrants and the number of their entries/revisions is actually the CHs attitude. If they give regular feedback to everyone, and update the thread often then they get lots of activity. To mention one, I'm not of the username, but they held a logo contest for Super Supplements, and they were a really good at holding contests. Therefore they got a good end result, and it gave us designers less of a headache in finding what they really liked. In that case, it was running the contest over the prizemoney. In response to people saying that DP shouldnt be where you get all your work from, I totally agree, although in my case (and I'm sure I'm not the only one) it is, just because designing is a hobby not a proffesion for me. I get the occasional dollar D) and it's nice, but I've gained skill that I often use for purposes other than work. I rekon that $35 is the transitional price mark between a 'cheap' logo and a '...not so cheap logo'(?) in the contests section. -Hecky.
Each to there own really. A few weeks ago I needed two logos, I posted the ad on a web development site, with max bid set at $100, and informed them to post the logos with watermark.. The bids were varied from $15 - $70, out of all the work the $15 one was exactly what I was looking for, much better and more creative than all the higher ones, but he must have been very happy to get $15 for it, otherwise he woudnt have placed that bid.. If he gets 20 logos done a day at $15, and his work is better than the others who get 3 logos done a day at $30, he is happy and overall making more money, for something he enjoys. Why anyone would want to charge $1 though is beyond me, they must really need it or must be doing nothing else with there time. I presume $1 is paid via paypal or something and that makes it even less
You need to position your firm properly. If you're appealing to poor people online looking for the cheapest possible work... that's what your going to get - the lowest possible price. Going after online entrepreneurs is probably the worst way to make a living as a designer. Go after the offline businesses that are used to paying big money for things. I've spent $10k+ before on "luxury" brand development, and it was worth every penny.
I have struggled with this over the years too as a designer/producer/developer etc. I think one of the main problems also lies in where you look for your work - You're on Digital Point where people know they can get cheap labor here from all over the world - as they can with freelance sites et al. I'm in a different league and let me tell you that if you target your offers and talents to the big boys the sales might be harder but they would never outsource or put their branding treatment in amature hands, and there are companies that NEED to spend xxxxx of their marketing budget so they seek only the best not the cheapest. IMO-Stop wasting time trying to monatize on boards like these and start an actual marketing campaign aimed at bigger brands - pitch them, chase them, follow up, build bigger relationships, etc. Great work and great talent do not go unnoticed. Might sound crazy but put a *minimum 2K* on yourself, and try not to take on cheap work. Alternatively even on some freelance sites the budgets range from 2-10K+ sometimes, you should be bidding on those. When all the outsourcing started, I began to diversify my offerings and try to aim at things that cannot really be outsourced, and now my slate is over 50 services all overlapping eachother within the marketing spectrum. Aim higher, feel free to check my siggs, perhaps I might be able to utilize your talents/skills in-house. Best, NC.