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Why & How JESUS CHRIST IS GOD. . .According to Scripture.

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by Nehemiah, Mar 18, 2009.

  1. cientificoloco

    cientificoloco Well-Known Member

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    #21
    you bet it is. I'd have had a much happier and healthier childhood and adolescence if I had not been put into a religious elementary school. f*ck them.
    SEMrush
     
    cientificoloco, Mar 19, 2009 IP
    SEMrush
  2. ziya

    ziya Well-Known Member

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    #22
    pingpong123 : Yes , you are right. It can be understood that he can be "God" too still... but If it is only text in Bible. But, beside it says too, that "There is only one God". Then if there is one God, then it must be the God who sent him. And then if there is one God , and it was the who sent him , the God is not definatly "Jesus".

    About "I AM", then he must be said that twice "I AM THAT I AM "("Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh" ), it the way spoken by the God to Moses. If he wanted to show that he is the same "God of Moses " , he would repeat it .

    But not only Islam doesnt believe it(Dont belive a Jesus as a God) , some branches of christinaty dont belive in Jesus as a God.

    I am far far far away of calling Jesus a person with a mental health problem .
     
    ziya, Mar 19, 2009 IP
  3. pingpong123

    pingpong123 Well-Known Member

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    #23
    Ziya who said there is more then one god. Im saying him and the father are the same. Are you saying this isnt possible for god to do?, and you cant deny what isiah said as he predicted jesus and god to be the same being and person. As far as the I am you would need to understand the culture and language of those times . Islam never had to deal with the aramiac language or culture as it is a much newer religion, and no he didnt have to say it as " i am that i am" The I am part is all that is needed if you go back and get the full translation in aramiac. It all comes to if you believe in the bible or not. If you dont , thats cool as everyone has their own belief but to say that jesus and god arent as one in the bible, thats a different story. I think what I need to do is go back into my own research to close this case once and for all . I have had this debate many times and all I need to do is get freshened up on my bible :D. Sorry, thats the competitive side of me talking lol. hehe

     
    pingpong123, Mar 19, 2009 IP
  4. Nehemiah

    Nehemiah Peon

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    #24
    Adam had no biological father (nor mother) because he was Created, as was all "the sons of GOD", mentioned in Scripture (Gen. 6:2, 4; Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7 and Luke 3:38). Elsewhere in Scripture when it refers to "the sons of GOD", these are "sons" by adoption (John 1:12; Romans 8:14,19; Phillipians 2:15; 1John 3:1-2) into THE FAMILY of GOD, via The New Birth (being "born again")

    ONLY JESUS CHRIST is called THE SON of GOD; in other words, In Scripture there were "the sons of GOD" and then there was/is "the Son of GOD". Do you notice the capitalization of the "S", when it refers to JESUS CHRIST, as opposed to the lower case "s" when it refers to Adam and his the other "sons of GOD"?

    JESUS CHRIST was born of a virgin because of the "sin" nature passed on by Adam to all his off-springs (all mankind), and then passed on by all males only to their descendants. This is because women can inherit the "sin" nature (from their biological father), but they cannot/do not pass it on to their descendants; Only the male can pass on the "sin" nature. The "sin" nature is the nature that gives us the propensity to "sin". Ergo, so as to prevent JESUS CHRIST from inheriting a "sin" nature, which Adam didn't have when GOD Created him (but developed when he decided to disobey GOD, and thereby passed it on to all mankind), HE had to be born of a Virgin.

    JESUS CHRIST stated the following, "Therefore MY FATHER loves ME, because I lay down MY life that I may take it again. No one takes it from ME, but I lay it down of MYSELF. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from MY FATHER. (John 10:17-18)".

    For JESUS CHRIST to have allow anyone to kill/murder HIM, he would have been an accessory to their sin; HE would have had helped them to sin. . .and that's sin (to help someone sin is a sin for the person doing the helping). So, HE could not allow anyone to kill/murder HIM for that reason.

    Crucifying someone was not murder, nor did it necessarily kill the person who was crucified (although sometimes it did); When they wanted to hasten the death of the individual hanging on the Cross, they would break their legs so that they could NOT raise themselves up enough to inhale. Ergo they would suffocate to death (which is the kind of death that Crucifixion caused). When the came to JESUS, to break HIS legs to hasten HIS Death, HE had already "given up the ghost"; thus fulfilling another prophecy about HIMSELF: "HE guards all HIS bones; Not one of them is broken. (Psalm 34:20)"

    JESUS CHRIST, in the verse that you're referring to (as well as in Matthew 19:17 and Luke 18:19), is speaking to an unbeliever (a "Judaizer": one who adheres to the strict laws of "Judaism"), who acknowledged HIM as only a "Teacher", but he calls him "Good Teacher".
    These Judaizers acknowledged that ONLY GOD IS "GOOD". Now if this guy doesn't believe that JESUS CHRIST IS GOD, then JESUS wants to know from him, why is he calling HIM "GOOD"? And just maybe this unbelieving Judaizer has now become a believer and is acknowledging JESUS as GOD ("GOOD"). . .but either way, JESUS wants him to clarify and/or explain what his beliefs are.

    See this is why you cannot just take one verse of Scripture and think that it means what you want it to mean, no matter how its worded. Scripture, to be properly understood, has to be taken in its proper context.

    Now, you may ask, "how do you know he was a Judaizer?" And the answer is, because of what he told JESUS, just after JESUS told him about doing all the commandments "Teacher, all these things I have kept from my youth."; now only the strictest observer/practitioner of Judaism could even make a statement like that.

    And the woman tells us, later on, why she would "perceive" that JESUS CHRIST was "a prophet". . .which HE WAS/IS. . .and so very much more.

    After her conversation with JESUS, she went back to town and told the townsfolk, "Come, see a MAN who told me all things that I ever did. Could this be the CHRIST?". Now one of the things that "a prophet" could do is to tell you stuff that you had done, even though he had no physical way of knowing these things.

    But did you notice that she believe JESUS to also be "THE CHRIST", aka "THE MIGHTY GOD".

    Again, stop taking just one verse and running wild with it. More often than not, you'll need more information than just whatever one verse you think you understand!;)

    That's correct; Because JESUS CHRIST commanded them and us to "Make Disciples" (Matthew 28:19-20NKJV).
     
    Nehemiah, Mar 19, 2009 IP
  5. farooqaaa

    farooqaaa Well-Known Member

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    #25
    Nehemiah:

    Can you prove that Bible is the word of God?
     
    farooqaaa, Mar 19, 2009 IP
  6. SolutionX

    SolutionX Peon

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    #26
    That's all I'm waiting for too. Until then I read everything sort of like "blaaaa blaaaaa blaaaaaaa blaaaaaaaaa this was all copy & pasted from the bible". And I've read the bible from way too many different theological viewpoints already, so that "I know more then you about the bible" crap isn't gonna work on me at least.
     
    SolutionX, Mar 19, 2009 IP
  7. Nehemiah

    Nehemiah Peon

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    #27
    The "Bible" is NOT "the word of God"; It just contains THE WORD of GOD.

    Now then, can "you prove" that it doesn't contain THE WORD of GOD?
     
    Nehemiah, Mar 19, 2009 IP
  8. farooqaaa

    farooqaaa Well-Known Member

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    #28
    Apart from "The Word Of God" what else does it contain?

    If you can't prove it OR you say that Bible isn't the word of God. Then how can you believe in it?
     
    farooqaaa, Mar 19, 2009 IP
  9. Nehemiah

    Nehemiah Peon

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    #29
    I answered your question; I then asked you one. You have not answered that question.

    Shall I repeat/restate it, just in case you honestly missed it?

    Now then, can "you prove" that it doesn't contain THE WORD of GOD?
     
    Nehemiah, Mar 19, 2009 IP
  10. farooqaaa

    farooqaaa Well-Known Member

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    #30
    It might contain "The Word Of God".

    "If you can't prove it OR you say that Bible isn't the word of God. Then how can you believe in it?"
     
    farooqaaa, Mar 19, 2009 IP
  11. Nehemiah

    Nehemiah Peon

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    #31
    That's not an answer to the question that I asked you.

    Once again: Can you prove that "The Bible", doesn't contain THE WORD of GOD?
     
    Nehemiah, Mar 19, 2009 IP
  12. SolutionX

    SolutionX Peon

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    #32
    Please make it stop lol I can't stop watching.
     
    SolutionX, Mar 19, 2009 IP
  13. farooqaaa

    farooqaaa Well-Known Member

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    #33
    Listen, You said Bible is not the word of God. And that's enough. If its not The Word Of God and then it also doesn't contain the Word of God.

    I'll prove to you if you could prove to me that it does contain the Word of God.

    lol...
     
    farooqaaa, Mar 19, 2009 IP
  14. ziya

    ziya Well-Known Member

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    #34
    Yes Adam has no Biological father nor mother . Then can we say their souls was the same ?( I mean soul of Adam and soul of Jesus )

    Are They both are Human-Divine Unity ? :
    Adam: "Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness." (Gen. 1:26)
    Jesus: "All the fullness of deity in bodily form." (Col. 2:9) ]

    Are they both Identical Nature: "Image of God "?

    Adam: "Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness." (Gen. 1:26)
    Jesus: "..the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." (2 Cor. 4:4)


    Identical Positions: "First and Last" :
    The first and last Adam: "The first Adam [Adam] became a living being; the last Adam [Jesus], a life-giving spirit." (1 Cor 15:45)
    Jesus: "I am the First and the Last." (Rev. 1:17)
    God: "I am the First and I am the Last." (Isaiah 48:12)

    Then does it mean that God is the First and Last ? Adam was the First and Jesus is First and Last, God is same way First and Last.. Then "God" is Adam too , and Adam is "God" too ?

    If they both same soul and if they both Human - Devine, identical nature("Image of God") then they both are same one, then they both are "God" ?

    And it is same about Mary and Eve .. Are they the same soul ?
     
    ziya, Mar 20, 2009 IP
  15. ziya

    ziya Well-Known Member

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    #35
    The Bible talking about Jesus :
    "And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli." (Luke3:23) Then The Bible goes on genealogy of Jesus . And Bible comes to Adam, and it says, "Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God." (Luke 3:38). So Adam is also the son of God.

    Is Adam as God as Jesus is/was ?
    ---

    Now God talking to Moses:

    Exodus 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

    Exodus 4:23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

    Also, God talking about David:

    Psalms 89:27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.

    Israel and David are calling first born .. which one is firstborn ?
     
    ziya, Mar 20, 2009 IP
  16. wmghori

    wmghori Well-Known Member

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    #36
    Very nice logic indeed.

    Let me continue...

    Mother of Jesus is god too then [because she is the mother of GOD]....
    Parents of Jesus mother would be god too then [because they are the parents of mother of GOD] ..
    Other siblings of Jesus' mother would be god too then [because they are the brothers and sisters of mother of GOD] ...
    Other children of siblings of Jesus' mother would be god then [because they are the cousins of GOD] .. and their children and their children so on and so on .
     
    wmghori, Mar 20, 2009 IP
  17. jumpboy11jaop

    jumpboy11jaop Peon

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    #37
    so basically, nehehmya, you're pantheist.

    thanks for the clarification.
     
    jumpboy11jaop, Mar 20, 2009 IP
  18. cientificoloco

    cientificoloco Well-Known Member

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    #38
    is this through paternal line?
     
    cientificoloco, Mar 20, 2009 IP
  19. Nehemiah

    Nehemiah Peon

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    #39
    Ziya, you are a "soul"; I am a "soul"; all humans are "souls". A "soul" live inside of a physical body. Your body is not you, but rather, it is the house that you (a "soul") lives inside; Ergo, A "soul" is a person.

    Adam was Created by GOD from "the dust of the ground". Adam became "a living soul", when GOD "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life...". This is how Adam became "a living soul". Ergo, every person that has proceeded for from Adam (including Eve) has proceeded for as "a living soul".

    As GOD, JESUS CHRIST Has Always Existed; As MAN, JESUS CHRIST was/became "a living soul", as the result of Mary, his human mother.

    How can Adam be "Divine"? Adam was Created! You cannot be Created and be "Divine". JESUS CHRIST was NOT Created. JESUS CHRIST [GOD] became a MAN ("a living soul"); a man ("a living soul") CANNOT become GOD.
    JESUS CHRIST IS What GOD looks like as a MAN ("a living soul"; "All the fullness of Deity in Bodily Form.").

    The "Image of GOD" is the Physical manifestation of what GOD would look like as a Human; The "Likeness of GOD" is all the Spiritual, Physical and Emotional Observable mannerism and/or behaviors of GOD.
    In our PERFECT GOD-like State, we are to look just like a part of GOD; and behave, think, and emote just as HE.

    You have misquoted the scripture regarding Adam; it should read, "The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.".
    And yes, it does have to do with their "positions", but not in the way that you think, nor in the way that you imply.
    Adam was made "a living soul", and because he had dominion over "the tree of life", he had the power to share the fruit of this "tree of life" to all that would come to him. . .but "the first man Adam", blew it; So "the last Adam [JESUS CHRIST]", had to come do, correctly and completely, what "the first man Adam", had miserably failed to do. Adam gave us life (existence); but JESUS CHRIST gives us EVERLASTING LIFE ("Life and Life more abundantly").


    No. Again: mankind does NOT become GOD.

    No; Once again; GOD became a MAN in THE PERSON of JESUS CHRIST; Adam (and none of his off-springs, which includes all of us) has never, can never, and will never become GOD.

    Yes.

    JESUS CHRIST, as GOD, IS THE CREATOR; Adam was Created. The Created can never become THE CREATOR.

    You tell me.:D You read so much into one verse of Scripture, without reading what's around the Scripture. You read and understand Scripture OUT OF CONTEXT. No wonder you're confuse. You've gone from "ONLY BEGOTTEN SON" to "first born son". And you still don't have the proper understanding of either. . .because of what you're attempting to make it into. And now, because you wouldn't listen, you've painted yourself into a corner.:D

    If Israel is GOD's "first born son", then Islam is in a lot of trouble, huh?
    If David, an Israelite, is GOD's "first born son", then Islam is in even more trouble, huh?

    Tell me something, before I explain it to you, Does the quo'ran ever refer to Mo-ham-mad as 'Allah's first born son' or 'only begotten son'?
     
    Nehemiah, Mar 20, 2009 IP
  20. Nehemiah

    Nehemiah Peon

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    #40
    Nice try, but Mary gave birth to a human baby (JESUS) WHO was/IS The HOUSE that GOD chose to place HIMSELF inside of. GOD place HIMSELF in JESUS CHRIST; And you are familiar with that little bag that the baby is enclosed in while in Mommy's womb. . .now you know what it's for, huh???:D

    And to keep Mary, from thinking that she had become something/someone that she's not (even though a bunch of folks call her "the mother of god"), HE Impregnated her while she was still a virgin, engaged to a much older man, kept her a virgin throughout her entire pregnancy, and HE never laid so much as one finger on her.

    And since you're so very brilliant, you should see how that's possible in much the same way as two brown-eyed parents produce a green-eyed baby, huh?





    HE has the Legal right to The Throne of David through HIS step/Legal father, Joseph;
    HE has the Biological right to The Throne of David through HIS biological mother, Mary.

    And HE IS The Only Living Jewish person, today, who can LEGALLY Prove HIS Lineage, back to David (even back to Abraham and Adam).
     
    Nehemiah, Mar 20, 2009 IP