Why do we even fool with designing for IE?

Sadly, a majority of computer illiterate fools use IE... and do not conform to the concept of updating their softwares. Microsoft has always poorly implemented w3 compliance... they submitted the idea for the XHTML crud and they do not even support the header content type.

 

While you seem incapable of reading:

I did not claim that. I just noted that the link "IE8 is 12 years behind todays standards", is mainly a huge list of things like: "<button> values are now correctly submitted instead of their innerHTML." and "The infamous hasLayout bug has gone."

Its not worth my time trying to figure out the point of your article - I would rather you gave a short synopsis.

I don't think that, I simply read that: "The vulnerability information was last updated February 10, 2009."

When an web-page has that right at the top, I figure its for a reason.
_____

Absolutely nothing you have showed me does anything to convince me that suddenly the fact that it works fine for me (even though I was developing in the latest Chrome, with animated background etc) with no to minor code changes is a fluke and that IE8 is a hideous browser. Nothing you have said has explained why ie8 actually matched chrome better than Firefox.

I'm not trying to say IE is the worlds greatest browser, but the idea that it is somehow tons worse than any of the others doesn't seem to hold up in practice - IE7 yes, IE6 yes, but not IE8.

 

Quoting your post:

Its not worth my time trying to figure out the point of your article - I would rather you gave a short synopsis.[/quote]
It would have been better to say that. While it is a large list, being large in itself is an indication of how poor IE8 is. Originally, that linked pointed to a test from the W3C for DOM support which shows IE8 doesn't properly support the DOM from 1998 but most people were too lazy to even click the test button. That link didn't show IE8s poor Javascript support or many other things from a decade or more ago, such as SVG and XHTML, so that list spells it out for people. Perhaps you'd like this one.

The author has all but abandoned the site due to his job but the graphs show the current date.

Then I'll repeat what I said before, you aren't technically proficient enough to understand the list. Many people create a page that "works" in IE and not others, thus blaming the other browsers as faulty, yet an examination of their markup shows hundreds of errors. There are math formulas that "prove" any number can be made equal to zero, too, but would you follow such information?

If IE8 is so good, why does Microsoft talk so much of IE9 "catching up" to other browsers on their IEBlog? Why are there hundreds of web sites dedicated to "fixing" IE and none for other browsers? Why does every talk about hacking IE? Why is there a IE8 javascript "shim", an ie8.js, a Rembrandt.js,, all being touted on the web to "fix IE8" for the current web? Why can't IE8 display XHTML when served as XHTML? Why can't IE8 display SVG? Why is IE8 the only browser that can't display HTML5 elements and associated CSS? What about CSS3? Almost all these are things all the other browsers did 10 years ago!

Microsoft shows up, occasionally on the Microsoft board touting IE. I confronted them with those things, they promise to get back to me, yet we never hear from them again.

IE8 is an embarrassment to Microsoft; the worst browser on the planet; a laughing stock in the developer world. No developer worth his salt thinks otherwise.

 

How does "seems to list all the things that IE8 has fixed" = "the first link only shows fixes"?

I hope that makes you happy, but is there a point to this?

You still have not attempted to explain why my Chrome code works fine in IE8, but not in Firefox?

Because in many ways IE8 is still behind innovators like Chrome, That does not however, validate you point that IE8 is the scum of the earth. Can you explain why IE9 is currently orders of a magnitude faster than Chrome in certain tasks? (I can BTW).

SVG was released in 2001, and from the sound of took a fair while before support was in-place(2005?).

IIRC nobody to date fully supports HTML5 or CSS3.

 

You don't provide a link but the answer will be you coded it wrong. Never, ever trust IE to do anything right on purpose.

In most ways, IE8 is behind all other browsers.

Then you did not read or understand my link. I'd provide you more links but you wouldn't understand them either. How can I make you understand the technical issues when you don't understand what you read? If you were technically proficient, you'd already know the issues and this discussion would never take place. No web developer who knows what he's doing thinks IE8 is in the same universe as any other browser.

Lol! You'll probably point me to the IEBlog where they like to show all of IE8's successes and none of its failures. And you'll show me the wonders of hardware acceleration in IE9 while ignoring software speeds in the other browsers, particularly Opera, which are almost as fast without hardware acceleration (and also ignore the fact that hardware acceleration will be in place in all the others before IE9 comes out).

Are we talking about IE9, a browser that won't even be out for another year? Maybe two?! Don't think the other browsers are sitting still!

Standards are based on implementation and are not invented by standards committees. Mozilla had implementations of SVG in 1999. In contrast, Microsoft just joined the SVG working group last November and only announced SVG support in December, a full 9 years after SVG was finalized.

Nobody fully supported CSS2.1 until a few years ago. IE8 supports virtually nothing in HTML5 or CSS3 at all while ALL the other browsers are blazing trails.

 

So I code a website, it works in Chrome - great. I flick over to IE8 and it works fine there to - damn, now I know I coded it wrong?

If thats your logic I really don't think there is much point continuing this discussion.

 

You imply that if it works in IE but not chrome then there is something wrong with chrome and that is the fallacy. How many people coded in quirks mode that looked good in IE all these years and blamed modern browsers for not looking the same?

The web coders mantra has always been, "If it works in IE but not other browsers, then the markup is wrong."

 

drhowarddrfine,
So you don't like IE, neither do I. This however should not prevent you from reading NPSF3000's posts properly before replying. He claimed that the code worked in BOTH Chrome and IE.

NPSF3000,
Your argument is also not logical. If a specific page works in both IE and Chrome that does not make IE W3 compliant.
I have had plenty of pages that worked fine in Chrome and FF and did not resolve properly in IE8.
I also had pages that resolved nicely in both Chrome and IE but the background in FF was missing (yes, I know - a "relative" call on CSS was missing).

In my first week in boot-camp at the age of 18, struggling with an ill fitting uniform, wind-torn tent, a half a jerrycan as a shower, a heavy assault rifle on my shoulder and mosquitoes as constant companions - my platoon sergeant said "This is what the IDF supplies - and with this we will win! - - Stop whining girls!"
I want to use this analogy in web-design.
Yes, we have different browsers, stop complaining.
If all browsers where the same, and would react the same, and have no special quirks, then any fool could be a web-designer - then everybody could make perfect sites with some WYSIWYG generator - now that would be something to complain about!

 

well, IE is bundled with the micrsoft OS so you can't really get rid of it

 

dude read "The vulnerability information was last updated February 10, 2009." not the graphs. also read at bottom: "Total vulnerabilities

The following graphs include all vulnerabilities listed by Secunia. "This if you look and read, is updated to today. its from 2004-2010." Also every since i upgraded to FF 3.6 i havent had a problem with getting the "Super antivurus 20-(whatever year)" virus. seems like with IE no matter what Protection you have IE is still open to these attacks. Heck FF even calls your antivirus to scan files upon download. I don't see IE doing that.

Its not hard to upgrade your bussiness software to at least a newer version of IE. Thats what the coders are there for.

 

yes you can, just uninstall it.lol.

but yay america! the only country where IE is still forced down new users throats.

@Rimona
nice mental link up of millitary and web design. Hmmm Opera is Army, Chrome is Navy, Safari is Airforce, FF is Marines. Then IE is... National Guard. so who is Coast Guard?

 

The original post talks of markup not working in Firefox though it worked in Chrome. You're not following the thread far enough back.

You're not following the thread.

Absolutely false! That's like saying anyone can become an artist since all you need is CMYK colors.

 

Not true. In Europe, you are given a ballot box as to which browser you wish to run. But no one has to use IE and no one should.

 

IE is stupid, and absolutely loves giving you viruses to be honest.

 

How about Konqueror (http://www.konqueror.org)? Just change the logo to a life-preserver

 

drhowarddrfine,

I am backing out of this thread.
There is far too much emotion, and dare I say it - testosterone - in the air.

 

While I did say I was leaving this thread, I feel the need to defend Rimona - as her interpretation of my comment is 100% correct.

Once again the argument cannot continue on technically merit (which you claim that I have no experience in, in any case) because you have a serious reading miscomprehended issues.

 

You are doing what most technically deficient people do, run away when they have no supporting evidence in the face of superior responses. I'm surprised you stayed as long as you did. If you want to argue a point, you have to support your side with something other than 'sez you' and trying to sidetrack by saying the problem is you think I didn't read your post properly (even when I quote your exact words). You shouldn't respond to threads when you know nothing about the subject.

(I thought I'd have some fun and test you to see if you'd catch what I wrote earlier. I called the javascript framework Rembrandt.js but it's name is actually Raphael.js. On one board, I once typed that accidentally and three people corrected me immediately.)

 

*Police whistle*
@NPSF3000 and drhowarddrfine:

Ok kids take it elsewhere if you can keep this civil and on topic. This is about IE being pure crap for a browser, not who read the thread the best or who has the best comback.

@Rimona: good choice. I forgot about konqueror!

@everyone:

Ok so we all hate to code for it... but then again its not all about the coding. My side job is computer repair/build. I always uninstall IE for my customers and let them pick. when they do, they always ask which one is the safest? FF for safety, Opera for low rescource, Chrome for looks, Safari for mac(*shudders*), and IE for loyalist fanboys and the people who just dont care.

Using or even leaving IE installed just because its there = Just using windows defender and windows firewall just because its there. More money (and headache) for us techs, but if you care anything at all about security it breaks your heart.

I overlooked IE8's bug fixes, tho it seems like some new ones have been introduced(as always).

Also as I am scared crapless to install IE, can someone let me know if my site is broken with it(see sig)? The desktop in the top right is nav menu. thanks

 

Hi Guys,

Here's a couple of links showing browser popularity trends. Just thought I'd share this with you folks here as this topic did come under discussion:

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
http://www.webdevelopersnotes.com/articles/popular-web-browsers.php