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Why do liberals hate small business?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by debunked, Mar 25, 2010.

  1. #1
    It appears that the liberal President and those in Congress hate small business. Everything benefits the big corporations and makes it harder and harder to compete with them.

    Oregon hates it so much they have done whatever they can to eliminate small business from the state, with one of the highest minimum wages in the USA (with unemployment following) and now they passed a new minimum corporate tax for filing taxes. Our new small business has to bay $150 just to file taxes! It doesn't matter if you just started and made no money at all, you are still taxed. They also increased the taxes on corps besides that. Oregon could barely get businesses to move here as it was, now they really shot themselves in the foot.

    (Next will be another raise for minimum wages once the last law expires.)
    SEMrush
    arggggghhhhh....... had to do some venting...
     
    debunked, Mar 25, 2010 IP
    SEMrush
  2. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #2
    Be glad you don't work in California. $800 minimum corporate tax. I bet NY is worse.
     
    Obamanation, Mar 25, 2010 IP
  3. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #3
    Liberals don't hate small business. It is the losers who imagine themselves to be a businessman while collecting their welfare check and dreaming to become super rich are the one who hate liberals. They have so much time on their hand that they can sit and worry about the day that they are going to be rich and how much tax the government is going to get from them. ;):rolleyes:
     
    gworld, Mar 25, 2010 IP
  4. Sam.Lewis

    Sam.Lewis Peon

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    #4
    It is an interesting point. The other point that is interesting is how liberals always say that raising the minimum wage doesn't really hurt business, that they can compensate but small businesses really have a tough job of keeping of with those raising of wages. I know someone who had to lay off two people because of the raising minimum wage.
     
    Sam.Lewis, Mar 25, 2010 IP
  5. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #5
    The OP is one of those ignorant political attacks that don't reflect reality. In the political fight for strength large businesses have a huge advantage. Small businesses, like less affluent people have nobody to fight their battles or promote their interests. The Republicans easily ignore small businesses just as Dems do as both parties chase contributions from huge businesses and huge wealth. The Republicans mouth off about things to benefit small businesses but don't deliver.

    The attack on minimum wage is one of those false issues that generally have nothing to do with reality. The people who work for minimum wage are either young or unskilled in a world that increasingly demands higher skills and pays handsomely for those skills. When a business is living off minimum wage employees and if the business is struggling then its probably a crappy business that can't compete. Many of those who work on minimum wage work 2 or more jobs to make ends meet. Its virtually impossible to survive in America at minimum wage anywhere.

    A strong business will value its employees. Their work is what ends up making that business money. If there are many employees there needs to be a lot of managment to oversee the process and encourage and promote the best workers. Half the battle of businesses is to "coach up" employees and enable them to help the business make more money. Too many politically motivated whiners scream about minimum wages and don't look at their own inadequacies to make a business thrive.

    I run small businesses. That is multiple!! We don't pay minimum wage, but we don't pay a lot. We incentivize everyone in some way to create an environment to create more income. That way everyone benefits.

    For years the Right Wing has screamed about unions and union wages screwing up the auto industry. A commentator here, Corwin, who generally represents the Right had direct experience in the auto industry. He articulated how poorly GM management operated for a long time. GM probably had a very similar wage structure as did Ford. GM f*cked up terribly. There whole management has been driven out and changed. Insiders from management, but not the top rungs, who have survived the top level purges have openly expressed how horrible their management has been for years and years.

    Maybe the whiners about small businesses should look at themselves instead of turning their own problems into a political attack on liberals. Maybe they should address the entire political process that pretty much ignores small business. Just quit turning your whining sob song into a politcal attack. Fix your own damn problems. Learn from your mistakes. I've had a passive and active role in owning small businesses for now over two decades. When things don't work right....and they change from good to bad to good to bad all the time.......when they turn bad we fix them.
     
    earlpearl, Mar 25, 2010 IP
  6. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #6
    The OP is worried about $150 /year, so you can imagine what kind of "business" he is running. You can hardly eat a proper dinner these days for $150. :rolleyes:
     
    gworld, Mar 25, 2010 IP
  7. K.Meier

    K.Meier Well-Known Member

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    #7
    Move your business to the Cayman Island or Switzerland ;)
     
    K.Meier, Mar 25, 2010 IP
  8. wwws

    wwws Notable Member

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    #8
    Slave wage being raised, "hurting small business". The slave masters don't like it, had to lay-off people because they cannot capitalize them like the way they want. WHAAAAAAAAAA!!!
     
    wwws, Mar 25, 2010 IP
  9. Breeze Wood

    Breeze Wood Peon

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    #9
    Liberals just prefer a level playing field - small or large business or anything else.

    Tax incentives seem to be in every bill coming out of Washington these days so maybe some other source as big business lobbyist are behind the bashing the little guys and blame the liberals is their oldest trick......State gov'ts just suck anyway.
     
    Breeze Wood, Mar 25, 2010 IP
  10. ncz_nate

    ncz_nate Well-Known Member

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    #10
    Lot of hatred and misunderstanding of small business and producers in general in this thread. I love how regulation serves a few insiders and restricts supply in the guise of helping the consumer, which only sets up a situation for further insider favors and dirt in the mouth of would-be competitive producers. I'm tired of hearing the anti-consumerist leftists who fall for marx's class theory in that the producers are just making you slaves.. only to stand by and clap your hands as power is concentrated in the hands of real slave masters.
     
    ncz_nate, Mar 26, 2010 IP
  11. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #11
    Nate: I run small businesses. Here is what we do. We compete hard. We treat our employees well. (we try) We try and "coach them up". As we achieve successes ownership, management and employees all take bigger rewards. Some small businesses thrive and grow and become big businesses. Microsoft was a tiny team of two people at one time.

    Govt. definitely doesn't do small business any favors as it does with large businesses that buy their rewards...but small businesses are in fact the arena where market forces are played out.
     
    earlpearl, Mar 26, 2010 IP
  12. wwws

    wwws Notable Member

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    #12
    Well, you've read the wrong book and or was mislead by the author of whatever book you've read in the past.

    People who are kept at a distance from earning a living wage by subjecting them even lower than where they were. There are two types of Capitalist:

    1. That just want to keep making money from you regardless on how much your making him successful. <---Evil and they usually end up with Anal Cancer and die's of a slow death later in life.
    2. Gives you a reward for the job well done that you share to make his company grow and profitable so that he could expand further even more.

    Small business that cannot pay it's worker a living wage should not even be in business in the first place, it's like having a mechanic shop without the tools you need, workers are a part of the tools in the mechanic shop, in fact he is the best asset of all the tools, he is a thinking tool.

    The secret to a small business being a successful has to do with the employee, it start there and ends there., anything else that you think that make a business successful is secondary, Any one that wishes or support of lowering any one's pay is lower than dirt.

    An employee should be look at as a business partner, but in today's standard business practice they are still looked at as a property that a "government" protects, they never like them government.

    If you look further...

    If an employee is paid a fair wage such as a living wage and is able to save a small amount of money from it, he too can start his own business and be the competitor or an investor of a company he works.

    Those that do not pay the living wage are the lowest part of the capitalist system which are lower than the communist who keeps it's citizen from advancing and that's about were this anti-advancement for a better living and a better....

    ...to be continued
     
    wwws, Mar 26, 2010 IP
  13. ncz_nate

    ncz_nate Well-Known Member

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    #13
    Wow, just wow. I hope you like unemployment then. Where did you learn this hogshit?

    So you think it's OK then to keep me out of work while I'm in college (not intending to make a living) on the basis that I can't earn a "living wage"? How do you think wages are even set? Do you think employers of small businesses are like these fat rich guys with pockets full of cash? Nobody is a slave if contracts are signed voluntarily (unlike state laws): you have options in your job search, and you'd have a lot more if government would stop favoring the few.
     
    ncz_nate, Mar 26, 2010 IP
  14. wwws

    wwws Notable Member

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    #14
    You're not very bright at all and should stay in college and learn as much that you can, because you only understand what you want to understand. Where do I learn all this hogshit? It's called "experience", 41 years old and I had been shaking my head for half as that from what this low wage business owners are paying it's "partners".

    Who says anything about putting you out of work? Yes there are a lot of option, but the reality of life is, some will have to take those low wages, imagine if no one took the option to work for the minimum wage, those businesses will either hire illegals, import labor from abroad and or simply go out of business, which many have often have had to hire illegal immigrants. In the 90's/2000's there were a lot of illegals and every one know who they were, low wages increase law breakers because those with other options did not want to take on those low wages, a common fact that has always been there throughout history of any industrialize world.

    A small business owners should have already know what lies a head prior to starting a business, one of them is paying it's partners a fair share of what it makes from the hard labor that they produce, because without it's partners, they would not have a business at all or cannot expand to the full potential.

    The OP stated that in Oregon they hate small business because they have set the minimum wage higher. The current minimum wage for Oregon is $8.45 an hour up by .45 cents.
    $8.45 on a 40 hours:
    $338 a week or
    $1352 a month and or
    $16,224 a year.
    That is if they work all of those hours at all, most people get sick or have to take a non-paid absence from work to tend for whatever reason ie, a death to a family member.

    Now take the minuses out of it:

    Federal Income tax
    Social Income tax
    Medicare
    State Tax
    Medical Insurance
    Some *ucking tax to who knows where it's going and what it's for.
    Transportation cost to get to work. Public trans could be anywhere from $50 a month.
    Riding a car to work at an average of $3.50 a gallon, this depends on how far he/she works
    Future maintenance on the car due to wear and tear, saved up money fro car replacement.
    Have to eat before going to work, during lunch break. Working takes a lot of energy and must re-supply the body with energy which cost money.
    Risk and safety going to work and coming home, people die because they go to work and or coming back home form work.
    Maybe the employee needs to save money for sending it's kids to college one day or a lawyer to take on the employer for abusing him/her.
    Do they even have enough for food,clothing and other basic essentials with the left over?..no All that for a lousy wages.

    The list could go on why $8.45 is never enough, in fact it just doesn't add up, but some people have to take them. People who do have to work for a minimum wage have to rely on some government assistance and people like you are against it, they live in a small place with too many occupant.

    I'm not crazy about minimum wage, I think it is wrong that every one regardless on what you do you get the same pay rate as every one else, which is wrong, I believe you should be compensated for the job you bring out, but there's a good reason why a minimum wage is there and why from time to time it needs an increase.

    Now history repeats itself....

    Link

    That was back in 1938 and as of now we still get a certain people that cry about something that they think that someone are against them. What it's all about is that this people are elitist or anti-human and they just love to see other people "below" them suffer and to stay down, they get all juicy about it, that or simply ignorant regardless on how many college they have attended, just because some one got a degree it never really matters much, it's just a piece of paper that says John Q public attended 4 years for showing up in a class room.
     
    wwws, Mar 27, 2010 IP
  15. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #15
    WWWS, I can totally understand where you are coming from. I mean hell, congress votes themselves a raise every year on top of an inflation increase. Right now the average govt. salary pays around 70k a year while the average private sector salary pays under 50. What we need is the govt. to legislate a pay raise for everyone since the stupid business owners are obviously not doing it. That way they can keep up with the government wage.

    I noticed you keep referring to you employees as "partners", and I appreciate that too. God knows the pimply faced teenager scooping ice cream at Baskin Robins should be considered a partner even though he didn't take any risk with the purchase of the franchise, the payment of the monthly bills, or business and individual tax liabilities at the end of the year. Obviously that person should still be treated as a partner. There may not be any upward mobility career wise since those stores usually have 1 or 2 ice cream scoopers on shift at any time with no management. To fix that, the government should legislate, a mandatory 5% annual pay increase if for no other reason just to keep pace with inflation. Just think about how much that person would be making when they reach age 40, scooping ice scream.

    After reading your rant about how money the government takes out of the $8.45 being paid to those employees, I'm thinking the government would be better labeled your "partner". Perhaps your real partner should be making suggestions about what flavors of ice cream you offer. God knows they are going to tell you you need to shut the doors when you can't make a profit after taxes. Perhaps the family who opens up a competing shop across the street and uses their kids for free labor will be successful. What the govt. is really telling you to do is have a bunch of kids.


    Now at least this paragraph was truthful. There is a reason we have almost no manufacturing base in this country, and it has a lot to do with minimum wage and labor unions. In the 90s/00s, we shipped illegal labor in, while setting up shop overseas. Now the jobs are overseas and Obamas solution is to penalize companies that send work overseas. At some point, we should be able to close enough of the loopholes to make the US non-competitive in the world market place. I'm sure our current members of congress and the president will all get naked and jerk off all over themselves if they manage to pull that one off.
     
    Obamanation, Mar 27, 2010 IP
  16. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #16
    Nice to see you still can't read.

    And $150 for a proper dinner only shows how spoiled you are and possibly how fat and government dependent. Did you get the new super sized deluxe scooter to haul yourself around in?

    (this guy seems to always hang himself with his own rope.)
     
    debunked, Mar 27, 2010 IP
  17. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #17
    It's gotten to the point where I barely need to write anymore; I can just paste in the words of smarter men and women who have gone before.

    "The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits" — Plutarch

    "It is impossible to introduce into society a greater change and a greater evil than this: the conversion of the law into an instrument of plunder." — Frederic Bastiat

    "The policy of the American government is to leave its citizens free, neither restraining them nor aiding them in their pursuits." — Thomas Jefferson

    "The general (federal) government will tend to monarchy, which will fortify itself from day to day, instead of working its own cures." — Thomas Jefferson

    "When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." — Benjamin Franklin

    "Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others." — Ayn Rand

    "To be controlled in our economic pursuits means to be controlled in everything" — Friedrich Hayek

    "When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators." — P.J. O'Rourke

    Exactly. When the U.S. government makes it more difficult for American companies to do business internationally, they make it easier for foreign companies to supplant them in the market. Eventually, the term "U.S. business" will become as quaint as "U.S. made shoes" or "U.S. made television."

    The only rational thing for intelligent men and women to do is to get out while it's still legal to do so. As Jim Rogers said "If you were smart in 1807 you moved to London, if you were smart in 1907 you moved to New York City, and if you are smart in 2007 you move to Asia."
     
    Will.Spencer, Mar 28, 2010 IP
  18. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #18
    Some of us have REAL businesses and go to real restaurants but I understand for some people $150 is a lot of money and their dream night out is in the local McDonald. :rolleyes:

    You forgot the most important quote:

    " Be a loud mouth chicken, put your tail between your legs and run away from your country, so you can live in a dictatorship." __ little willy ;):D
     
    gworld, Mar 28, 2010 IP
  19. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #19
    Being a pimp is a real business now?
     
    Will.Spencer, Mar 28, 2010 IP
    Blogmaster likes this.
  20. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #20
    A male prostitute is hardly a pimp.
     
    Obamanation, Mar 28, 2010 IP