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Why Article Spinning Doesn't Work (aka How Google is Structured)

Discussion in 'Copywriting' started by mariobaez, Jun 3, 2010.

  1. SwimFinn

    SwimFinn Peon

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    #21
    Shingling is the taking of unique groups of words. The start of the shingles which are 3-wide for the preceding sentence is {(shingling,is,the), (is,the,taking), (the, taking, of),...}. The differences in the shingles are compared.
    SEMrush
    Yes, branes as in string theory. They're both using multidimensional mathematical operations, and a brane is a mathematical term.
     
    SwimFinn, Jun 5, 2010 IP
    SEMrush
  2. Perry Rose

    Perry Rose Peon

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    #22
    lol, gee, ya think?

    Still spoutign off about things you know nothing about, hey, you walking, talking medicine cabinet?

    How many pills a day are you up to now?
     
    Perry Rose, Jun 5, 2010 IP
  3. dyadvisor

    dyadvisor Peon

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    #23
    Thanks SwimmFinn

    An excellent explanation and example of the terminology, when one goes beyond traditional Perry-type spinning.

    Let me ask you your viewpoint of some recent Google implementations.

    If you had three or four key search words that combined together in various factions, would you still use the old strategy of putting them all together and adding synonyms, etc. or to keep the prominent words singular and not all in a phrase together? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
    dyadvisor, Jun 5, 2010 IP
  4. phpwnes

    phpwnes Peon

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    #24
    noone knows how google analyzes it 100% but for me i spin lots of content for my sites (abover 70% unique) the least and most pages are doing fine.
     
    phpwnes, Jun 5, 2010 IP
  5. dyadvisor

    dyadvisor Peon

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    #25
    Not so sure. BOTH (roughly worded) Example sentences are used in the same paragraph:

    I said about everybody might often be presumably quite able.
    You say around everyone could normally become possibly rather willing.

    Your logic says 100% unique. My logic says what good is “unique”, if the Google value is slim to zero? Maybe someone good at explaining could add clarification.
    Are we both wrong? Or where does the value lie? And I am not talking about fooling Copyscape. --------THANKS-----------
     
    dyadvisor, Jun 5, 2010 IP
  6. newmarketer

    newmarketer Peon

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    #26
    Based on what I know, Google does not blacklist websites with duplicate contents. If that was the case, then by now most of the websites that release PRs would be gone. When a PR is released, it gets published in hundreds and sometimes thousands of websites. Now Google does not like duplicate content on your own website and you can find information about that in Google webmaster central. That means you shouldn't repeat contents on another page of your website if they are already there on one page.

    If the same article was published on multiple sites, and if somebody used a keyphrase from that article in Google search, then the website that shows up at the top will be the website that scored the most based on Google's algorithm. This would be based on many different factors, like Google Page Rank, backlinks, SEO etc. etc.
    So far there has not been any proof that a website copying content from another website (legally) got banned by Google. In fact a lot of articles are copied everyday from Ezinearticles.com and other websites (legally) and nobdoy gets banned. Maybe this was something you guys already knew, but I hope that this will clear up some confusion.
     
    newmarketer, Jun 6, 2010 IP
  7. parsibagan

    parsibagan Active Member

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    #27
    Spinners can and do work, but, only if the output is checked for mistakes and fine tuned by a human. It can save around 25-50% of the time required to compose an article. However, the warm feeling in the heart that one receives after writing and original article, can never be had via a spinner. Just my 10 cents (sorry, prices of everything have escalated, I can no longer leave it to 2 cents. :cool:
     
    parsibagan, Jun 6, 2010 IP
  8. FredrikMH

    FredrikMH Active Member

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    #28
    I don't doubt that you can write algorithms that compare two documents and tells if they are spun or not. But think of it, it would require some CPU resources for just these two documents to be compared in detail.

    When Google finds a document it's not like it will loop through all before crawled content and compare it towards the new one. It has to use quick algorithms to find if there are other documents that are worth comparing more closely and this is where Google and other search engine simply doesn't have the power to do it. A proper spun article will not be caught here, but most likely the more an article is spun, the higher risk of getting caught. Spinning 1 article 500 times is probably not a good idea, but just a few times and you basically have unique content that is too hard to find similarities in so short time.
     
    FredrikMH, Jun 6, 2010 IP
  9. Perry Rose

    Perry Rose Peon

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    #29
    *hands dyadvisor a blue pill and a glass of water* Go to bed now.


    Again, that's just it. ... The second article, the spun article, has to be fixed. Which means spinners do not work.
    It has to be carefully proofread, and time also has to be spent making corrections.

    One might as well go ahead and write out a new article, which takes less than an hour anyway. Do one a day on the same subject, and one can be far ahead of the game.

    In a month's time, one can have 30 FRESH articles out there.

    Even a mediocre writer can do this.

    Articles can be spun, maybe, just a few times, and that's it. After the second time, it is a butchered mess that does not even make sense.

    Can you show otherwise?

    Another reason why one should do it manually, once a day.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2010
    Perry Rose, Jun 6, 2010 IP
  10. contentboss

    contentboss Peon

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    #30
    OK, sorry for using the jargon my developers use, I'll try and explain:-

    To reduce a word down to it's essential meaning may or may not be possible because in English, a lot of words have multiple meanings, and those meanings may or may not be dependent on context. As an example, let's look at 'fall'. It can mean lots of things like 'slip', 'slide', descend'... or 'Autumn'. Which means that to 'disambiguate' (make clear what the meaning is) you can't just assign a value to the root 'fall' and then group all its synonyms into a superset, because those synonyms also have synonyms, and they aren't two way relationships. 'Slide', for example, might mean 'childrens playground toy' as well as 'slip', but you can't make assumptions about occurrences of 'Autumn' and its synonyms using the 'slide' superset, because that's not a relationship. Which is why attempts to build higher dimensional meta synonym groups always fail because ultimately, you end up with just a few very high-D supersets that contain thousands of words which are related in a chain-like fashion. Even attempting to infiltrate nodes of connectivity between the levels doesn't help because there are effectively infinite ways to traverse the space, thanks to the concept of 'context'. At some point you have to fairly arbitrarily set a cutoff, and spin from there accepting the fact that some ambiguity may still be present because *some ambiguity existed in the original*.
     
    contentboss, Jun 6, 2010 IP
  11. mirrorimage

    mirrorimage Peon

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    #31
    Soon enough Google will be crawling your mind, never mind your articles....
     
    mirrorimage, Jun 7, 2010 IP
  12. romq13

    romq13 Peon

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    #32
    So what happens if I post the same article through 2 different content search engines and article directories? Would that be considered a duplicate?
     
    romq13, Jun 7, 2010 IP
  13. ronmac

    ronmac Well-Known Member

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    #33
    Article spinning works fine. i have spun lots of articles and submitted them to enzines and recieved link juice.
     
    ronmac, Jun 7, 2010 IP
  14. contentboss

    contentboss Peon

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    #34
    Funny you should say that - I randomly grabbed a bunch of stock trading articles from ezines today, and I can say with some certainty that they have been wrangled with contentBoss. So yes ezines seem to be allowing spun content nowadays. Perhaps it's because one of their main editorial process is automated now, and is just a simple grammar check, rather than anything more complicated.
     
    contentboss, Jun 7, 2010 IP
  15. mjtaylor

    mjtaylor Member

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    #35
    Sure, that's a duplicate. Here's how Google handles duplicate content: it filters out the dupes and only serves one in the SERPs ... the one it considers "best." And I do believe Google is beginning to fine tune the algorithm to detect a pattern of article placement for SERP manipulation. Caffeine was an overhaul to "what's under the hood," to make the index faster and more flexible. This flexibility was needed in order to make it easier for G engineers to tweak the algo to make filtering out spammy patterns easier.

    Article spinning will eventually become as ineffective as link exchanges, if not entirely useless.
     
    mjtaylor, Jun 7, 2010 IP
  16. romq13

    romq13 Peon

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    #36
    Thanks for your reply! So based on what you say, it would be better to submit 1 unique article to each content search engine or article directory... right?
     
    romq13, Jun 7, 2010 IP
  17. contentboss

    contentboss Peon

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    #37
    you're almost right. Google will serve what it considers 'best' to create the 'best user experience'. If that includes multiple instances of the same article, it will be BECAUSE Google figures that's what you want. For example, if you search for the first line out of a song, in quotes, you're usually going to get a page showing what is, to all intents and purposes, dupe content. Why? Because Google has figured out that what you want is the entire song lyrics.

    Basically, Google will happily show you dupe content if it doesn't have anything better to show you

    As for your statement that 'article spinning will become useless'.. my, it must be nice to be able to predict the future. Can you also tell us who will win the World Cup, please?
     
    contentboss, Jun 7, 2010 IP
  18. romq13

    romq13 Peon

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    #38
    OK, I see. Thanks for the input!
     
    romq13, Jun 7, 2010 IP
  19. mjtaylor

    mjtaylor Member

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    #39
    No, but I am not interested in sports. ;)

    It's not really very welcoming to be sarcastic with newer members, I feel. However, m'bad, I should have added, "I believe." And I believe that pretty strongly. Google abhors that article directories are used to manipulate SERPs and I would be willing to wager some $$ that they are targeting that. There has been a lot of conversation among SEOs far more expert than I that indicates that the republishing of articles by the same author is on their hit list. It is said that they will begin to ask authors to add no-index, no-follow to pages under their control when posting content that is duplicate, just as they ask link sellers to add no-follow. But those who are more familiar with Caffeine seem to think that the ability to build pattern detection and filtering into the algo is greatly increased now.
    Absolutely. In my opinion.
     
    mjtaylor, Jun 7, 2010 IP
  20. Perry Rose

    Perry Rose Peon

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    #40
    Then you shouldn't have a problem showing them here.


    "Will become"??? Uhhh, it already is.
     
    Perry Rose, Jun 7, 2010 IP