1. Advertising
    y u no do it?

    Advertising (learn more)

    Advertise virtually anything here, with CPM banner ads, CPM email ads and CPC contextual links. You can target relevant areas of the site and show ads based on geographical location of the user if you wish.

    Starts at just $1 per CPM or $0.10 per CPC.

Why Are We Still Combating Racist and Racism in America

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by wrmineo, Aug 2, 2010.

  1. #1
    I am not sure if I have ever posted in the Politics and Religion section of the Digital Point Forum - probably because both are huge no-no's if you are trying to be cautious about how people (prospective acquaintances, clients, etc) perceive you.

    However, I really think I'm tired of not being able to speak my mind ... I am 40 years old, proud of who I am, and not afraid to defend or support my decisions; but moreover, I know that I am objective and receive constructive criticism graciously and willingly listen to opposing views. Dialog need not be debate and it certainly need not evolve into diatribes.

    SO ... having said all that, I could not help feeling one of those needing to vent moments last week as reading Newt Gingrich's latest newsletter delivered to my email.
    While I have previously held respect the former US Speaker of the House, I was unable to stop myself from calling Newt Gingrich a racist after reading his newsletter.

    Worse than the racial slurring undertones and outright misstated facts, I couldn't get over the fact that in 2010 we are still a divided States of America and pundits like racist Newt Gingrich are only making it worse.

    Don't worry, I like to call dumb asses by their true calling - it's not about Democrat, Republican, Whig, or anything else - it is about putting onus where it should lay. Politician forget they are PUBLIC figures sometimes and those who have forgotten the service that goes along with public need to go back to private and let a common sense citizen, not a paid-for politician, hold the seat.

    Can't we all just get along? Dammit!
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2010
    wrmineo, Aug 2, 2010 IP
  2. luke12

    luke12 Member

    Messages:
    609
    Likes Received:
    3
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    45
    #2
    Hello brother,

    Welcome to the forum. Can you clarify few things for me.

    1) Are you American?
    2) Do you support Radical Islamism ? And If they try to eliminate it, is that considered racism?
    3) Do you understand the complete side effects of imposing sharia—Islamic law in the states, if it becomes significant?

    Thank you
     
    luke12, Aug 2, 2010 IP
  3. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,970
    Likes Received:
    204
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    180
    #3
    My guess is because we have people like you calling people Racists to score political points. It seems that this type of diatribe is just about all liberals have left going into this election cycle. So pathetic its actually humorous. Go sell stupid some place else.
     
    Obamanation, Aug 2, 2010 IP
    wrmineo likes this.
  4. gworld

    gworld Notable Member

    Messages:
    11,333
    Likes Received:
    614
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    260
    #4
    Do you support radical Christianity?
    Do you support killing abortion doctors?
    Do you think Bible is the words of God?
    Who is a higher authority, man or God?
    If you think God is higher authority and Bible is words of God the shouldn´t you start killing gays and people who commit adultery in marriage?
     
    gworld, Aug 2, 2010 IP
  5. luke12

    luke12 Member

    Messages:
    609
    Likes Received:
    3
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    45
    #5
    Was this thread about me? No!
    Was this thread about Christianity? No!
    Was this thread about God? No!

    You're not trying to find out the answers, you're just trying to make a fool out of yourself. Like I told you before, this forum is not for disrespectful people like yourself.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2010
    luke12, Aug 3, 2010 IP
  6. gworld

    gworld Notable Member

    Messages:
    11,333
    Likes Received:
    614
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    260
    #6
    LOL. you are exposed. Your religion is no different than those who you call Islamist. At least they are honest enough to admit that they believe in this old BS while you are dishonest and don´t discuss it so you won´t look ridiculous.
     
    gworld, Aug 3, 2010 IP
  7. wrmineo

    wrmineo Peon

    Messages:
    3,088
    Likes Received:
    379
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #7
    Thanks for the welcome five years after joining!

    American - yes
    Elitist - no
    'Eliminationist' - no, prefer inclusion
    Clump all Muslims into a stereotypical group - no
    Understand sharia - probably better than Newt Gingrich

    You're welcome.
     
    wrmineo, Aug 3, 2010 IP
  8. wrmineo

    wrmineo Peon

    Messages:
    3,088
    Likes Received:
    379
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #8
    Your points are valid, mostly on target, appreciated and more over, respected.

    Calling out a neo-right alarmist who is trying confuse issues makes me a liberal? I've been called worse, but so long as it is preceded by 'Citizen' or 'American' or 'Patriotic' or 'Informed
    Voter' you can call me what you like and I will even defend you right to do so!

    My 'diatribe' is not about an election cycle, it's about getting people to read past the headlines and snippets - feed on content and context, not snippets of sleaze and slander. (Hard to make that last point stick I now acknowledge having resorted to it myself a bit ... 'If you can beat 'em ...' doesn't mean I should 'join' them or use the same tactics)

    I've been selling stupid very successfully for years, thank you - here is just as good a place as any ... thanks, Shawn!

    Thank you for your input. Do you have an alternate view of the former Speaker's remarks? I would appreciate hearing an objective analysis of his remarks and not just an assumption based on mine.

    Happy, safe surfing!
     
    wrmineo, Aug 3, 2010 IP
  9. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,970
    Likes Received:
    204
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    180
    #9
    Lets see, according to you, pointing out we are engaged in a war against radical Islam is racist, despite the fact that the terror organizations we are at war with are recruiting their people via a radicalized version of Islam. It seems your issue is not with the speaker, it is with facts.

    We could go down the line on this. Those in favor of enforcing our immigration laws are racists because the lions share of illegal immigrants are Latinos. Those in favor of enforcing our criminal laws are racists because the lions share are minorities. Those who speak out against the president's policies are racist because he is black. It goes on and on and on and on.

    There are definitely still issues of race in this country, and every other country on the face of the planet. Having been to many of those other countries, in my opinion, Americans of every political stripe are some of the least racist people I know of. We just like to use the accusation of racism as a political tool to smear people, and in this case, I can understand why. Newt is definitely the front runner amongst the potential 2012 GOP presidential candidates.


    Use of racism as a wedge issue is a liberal tactic, yes. Use of terms like "neo-right alarmist" makes you a liberal as much, if not more, than the accusations of racism. It seems fairly obvious that if we wanted to cut the costs involved in keeping terrorists off of our airlines while at the same time improving the effectiveness of our security, we would be profiling our passengers instead of strip searching grandmothers. My recommendation to you, and the rest of your liberal friends, is to keep on calling racism what most everyone else calls common sense. As I said earlier, its all you have left for this November.
     
    Obamanation, Aug 3, 2010 IP
  10. wrmineo

    wrmineo Peon

    Messages:
    3,088
    Likes Received:
    379
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #10
    What a clever, convenient and concocted connotation on content taken out of context.

    Let's see ... you obviously still have not even read the former Speaker's newsletter as you still fail to present an alternate view of HIS remarks.

    Neither would it appear have you read or attempted to objectively consider my response article, only interpretations and misrepresentations of convenience to further confuse, not clarify the issue at hand.

    Had you read, reasoned or a reaction to either of the aforementioned, one would likely be able to conclude that you would include explication, expression or explanation; its absence is not automatically an indication of not reading of course, but lacking specificity of a separate, alternate view displays your subjectivity, not your objectivity.

    My offense or issue with the former Speaker's use of the term 'radical' is his/its automatic association with the whole of Islam, making it seem like every Muslim is in fact radical when we all know different. Yes, we (as a world, not just a nation - we are but one community on this little island home we call Earth) are combating radicals committing terrible, terrorist tyranny against others and yes, that makes it a "War on Terror" (the term the former Speaker disagrees with) and not a war per se and as suggested by the his (former Speaker) comments specifically a War Against Radical Islam; again, coupling the terms together for saturation and desensitization of the public at large. He writes an article entitled "No Mosque at Ground Zero" spending the first 1124 words talking about 'radical Islamists', never addresses the issue(s) at hand or that he is in disagreement with (about a Mosque being built) to any degree of discernible definition, and is merely attempting to rally Americans around a big red WHITE and blue banner of common hatred, common enemy, common xenophobic means to an end ... that's worked really well throughout history, huh?

    I'm for enforcing equitable immigration laws, standards, and consequences - that make me neither a racist nor a conservative nor a liberal; merely a citizen engaged in civil democracy.

    I have previously supported, and oft still do, John McCain, in a variety of facets and on a vast number of important issues; makes me not a Republican, not a conservative, not a close-minded citizen who only sees one side of issues.

    I voted for Obama because he didn't seem like a pre-paid politician who was funded by PAC's and corporations; that doesn't make me a Democrat, not a liberal, not one-sided, or even a flip-flopper ... just a participant and citizen who engages the democratic process of this Republic with an open, unbiased, unpaid mind.

    I do not deploy any term, label, definition or comprehension as a tactic of liberalism, conservatism or other political ploy for that matter - I employ them as a conscientious citizen concerned about how we conduct ourselves, commit our resources, concentrate our priorities.

    Thank you for your views; debate and dialogue is how democracy works and how we better understand alternate, not necessarily opposing, views and make it possible to discover that we often have more in common than the differences that bring discourse.
     
    wrmineo, Aug 3, 2010 IP
  11. luke12

    luke12 Member

    Messages:
    609
    Likes Received:
    3
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    45
    #11

    I appreciate your response.

    I completely understand Gingrich's view about this issue. Like he said, they're trying to build a 13 story mosque next to a sacred place that was terrorised by the Al-Qaeda radical islamists. I do not think this mosque was intended for religious purposes at all, given there are over 100+ mosques in New York already. It is funded by radicals from foreign governments and it has a certain plan of action.
    Why don't you call the Government of Saudi Arabia racists too? Not only Churches are not allowed but you can go to prison if you simply show a bible in the country.
    Of the 3000 people that died during 9/11, try to convince one of their families about the beauty of building a mosque next to this awful sad memory. You might as well plant the American flag in Hiroshima. There is a difference between stopping a Muslim and a Criminal Muslim. Lets not point our fingers on every simple act against a certain group and call it racism. Remember the pakistani dude who was going to blow up a car a couple of months ago in New York but failed? Who do you think was supporting him? Newt or Radical islamism? Please face the facts
    These radical islamists do not care about any of your rules, religions, status, country or laws and their main target is to take control which is taken care of at this moment by immigration and population increase.
     
    luke12, Aug 3, 2010 IP
  12. robjones

    robjones Notable Member

    Messages:
    4,256
    Likes Received:
    405
    Best Answers:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    240
    #12
    I think the "welcome" was to P&R, not to DP, so I'll repeat the welcome, Rob. :)

    My daughter spent a fair amount of time in Muslim countries during the course of obtaining her degree with a major in foreign languages, and she speaks warmly about the people she met there... their kindness, generosity, etc.... Does that mean she is a fan of people that scream Muslim rants while flying planes into buildings or detonating a vest full of nails and C-4 in a pizza parlor full of women and children? Seems doubtful.

    To me that indicates there is a difference between "Muslim" and "radical Muslim"... and it is conceivable to like one but not the other. That being the case, it does shed a different tone to the speakers comments than appears to have been perceived in the OP or the blog link. If Gingrich had said simply "Muslims" in the course of the quote shown, I might hold a view that corresponds to the OP.

    My point is that Gingrich did not actually say what you appear to be objecting to. You can't remove the word "radical" from his statement and have the sentence say the same thing it said before, so it is unlikely it was a randomly chosen word. It is the differentiation that HAS to be there for the statement not to be simply a xenophobic rant.

    ----

    Fwiw, yes, Christianity did go thru a similar phase, and it lasted for a few hundred years and it was absolutely as bad if not worse than anything the radical Muslims have in progress today. The inquisition cost many lives and was very parallel to the rhetoric of the hardcore guys practicing violent jihad today. It was in fact institutionalized murder, fueled by greed, misogeny, ethnocentricity, and racism... with a side of torture, and sadism. It was then wrapped wrapped in the presumably respectable cloak of doing God's work. Have read a few books on the topic and it was unbelievably brutal.

    Fortunately it ended, and anyone that were to espouse burning someone as a witch today or hanging them up on a strappado so they could cleanse their soul would be immediately labelled not just radical Christian, but as a murderous thug. That is what Christians as a mass consider abortion clinic bombers, and you will not find any support for such acts in the general Christian community. They'd turn in a Tim Mcvey in a heartbeat.

    There was a time when Christianity thought the world needed to be purged of "heretics", and even people in foreign lands could and should be subjected to Christian law and beliefs even at the point of a sword or a gun. That time has passed. I hope the same evolution takes place within the Islamic community as a whole sooner rather than later. Obviously not everyone that calls themselves Muslim is a fan of violence against non-believers... and you do see sporadic instances of Islamic leaders speaking out against random violence against "infidels", and that's a start.

    Btw - Luke, everyone knows Gworld just trolls for reaction. Dont waste a lotta time discrediting somebody that already has no credibility.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2010
    robjones, Aug 3, 2010 IP
    wrmineo likes this.
  13. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,970
    Likes Received:
    204
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    180
    #13
    Oh joy. A fan of tautograms. This should keep the conversation entertaining.

    I'm sorry, but you'll have to excuse me for not immediately digging through Newt's newsletter to find the particular part you found offensive. If you had a particular quote you wanted me to comment on, I would be more than happy to, provided you actually quote it. I actually went to the trouble of reading your blog and found it to be equally incoherent.


    One could argue that your failure to quote the offending portion while accusing the Mr. Gingrich of being a racist equates to rank partisanship. That is certainly the way I took it.

    Again, quote the portion of the article which substantiates this claim. I am a Muslim and I am in absolute agreement with nearly everything I have ever heard Mr. Gingrich say on the matter. Your volunteer work as the guardian of my delicate sensibilities does nothing but shelter those within my Muslim community that are giving the community as a whole a bad name.

    Perhaps you would be better off joining your fellow Democrats in their efforts to paint the Tea Party as a party of gun toting racist radicals, seeking to follow in the footsteps of Tim McVeigh. Then again, that would put you squarely in the line of fire of your own false protest, wouldn't it.

    Of course. Lets completely ignore the fact the majority of these people follow Islam. That fact is completely irrelevant. Nothing to see here.

    So are you in favor of enforcing the existing Federal immigration laws, even if that means deporting some of the 12 million people here illegally before the others leave on their own?


    That most definitely does not make you a Republican. McCain will be very fortunate to hang onto his seat this year, in an election year that will unquestionably favor Republicans. Were you trying to imply that the bulk of McCain and Scozzafava supporters are anything but liberal?

    No need to admit gullibility in a public forum. You could have just said McCain didn't lean left enough for you and left it there. I couldn't bring myself to cast a vote for McCain, so I suppose I am to blame for Obama as well, though for different reasons.

    Sorry if I seem down on you. Draping yourself in the garb of the opposition and crying foul at the misdeeds of your own party is an activity I am well acquainted with.
     
    Obamanation, Aug 3, 2010 IP
  14. wrmineo

    wrmineo Peon

    Messages:
    3,088
    Likes Received:
    379
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #14
    Rob,

    I too spent a fair amount of time overseas while serving in the military and had a "worldly" almost spiritual experience being able to be immersed with fellow humans throughout the world in a variety of settings, conditions and circumstances. No doubt your daughters' immersion into different cultural settings and experiences were great having been coupled with the scholarly education before, during, and no doubt she keeps it up still as result.

    On to less pressing matters ...

    I think we would find more in agreement on this issue and others than you or others may think. Your points are well articulated, argued and appreciated.

    Maybe we need another sub-forum, Shawn .. but it won't require much space; just a small spot to post things people can agree on, maybe? Yeah, bad idea; sorry.

    Speaking again of education, isn't this all (dialoging and digesting) part of life's education?

    I certainly accept and respect your well postured points, reserving the right of course, to still be in slight discourse with a few; the differences are so minor, the may not seem important - but I believe they are.

    You are correct, had he said (implied all) Muslims, it would be easier for more people to have issue with it, but then he could not have stuffed the words "radical" and "Muslim" together a bunch of times for saturation into the reader's psyche. How many times does a lie have to be told before it becomes pathological and permeates into an 'accepted' norm?

    But back to your point:

    I doubt your daughter's experiences would equate to a generalized statement such as this by the former Speaker:

    The more I thought about it last night, overnight and this morning driving through Louisville KY on my way to the VA (yep, damn liberal disabled veteran getting free health care treatment from Uncle Sam) I was not necessarily seeing your point on the semantics about whether he slandered specific or generally .. misleading is misleading in my book ... but I was regretting calling him a racist, and that is from your comments, per se - got me thinking about taking a look in the mirror if you will ...

    It was very wrong of me to refer to him as a racist. Allowing anyone to ever again equate a religion to a race and further defining and later dehumanizing never leads to positive results ... genocide was not something only the Nazi's were guilty of and it didn't end then. It continues to happen it even in our times, yes, the 21st f[censor]g Century and in Sudan, Rwanda, Bosnia, Cambodia ... the list sadly goes on.

    While I obviously felt very strong in my opinion that the former Speaker erred, using the term racism or racist in any way, shape or form in conjunction with religion, for the aforementioned reasons, is flat out wrong.

    Again, I still feel very strongly that as an American statesman, who is well paid and has plenty of writers, drafters, readers, editors et al at his disposal abused the discretion in which we need in our times, and not try to grab headlines like some damned liberal blogger!

    Have a great day all - Safe Surfing!
    ®
    the "other" Rob
     
    wrmineo, Aug 4, 2010 IP
  15. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,970
    Likes Received:
    204
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    180
    #15
    Glad to see you finally posted the part that offended you. With your knowledge of Sharia, what part of these words do you find to be untrue?


    Only because it is wrong to equate race and religion, or because race baiting is wrong in general?
     
    Obamanation, Aug 6, 2010 IP
  16. wrmineo

    wrmineo Peon

    Messages:
    3,088
    Likes Received:
    379
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #16
    Obama:

    I wasn't offended by that part alone which only continues to example your own lack of interest in actually reading the full content and context of either the former Speaker's newsletter to wit the entire discussion was threaded around or the opinion response I authored, to objectively or constructively allow you to contribute something of substance to the subject.

    As I stated, the generalization of his comments to apply to all Muslims practicing Islam is not accurate. We both know - or least I, despite being a Christian, have an understanding that I am willing to expound upon, because I have taken the time to attempt to understand, identify with and coexist with others, while you show or demonstrate nothing other than a user name and photo to imply that you know, speak, or understand anything on the subject - that various sects, countries and regions of Muslims understand, interpret and practice Islam in various ways. To attribute generalized terms, especially in anti-democratic, anti-American, anti-liberty ways that will certainly get the blood flowing of most American or Westerners, is tantamount to flat out lies, hate mongering, fear mongering, and potentially only serving to further divide or even inciting [negative] action - he knows, you know it; prove me wrong, but based on your facts, your understanding, and not your baiting.

    I do in fact firmly believe the former Speaker is a racist and his referenced newsletter was but another feather in his hat of bigotry and hatred. Yes, because it is wrong to equate race and religion; my referencing his comments as such, regardless of my opinion of his demonstrated prejudices, racism and xenophobia, was wrong because I only allowed it to further propagate a sentiment that I personally abhor and we have all too oft seen the results thereof. To that end I regret not having spent more time spelling that out in terms that were more equally clear, leading the reader to take the content (not my contextual understanding of it), apply it to his ever increasing long list of bigoted comments, prejudicial practices, and inflammatory, hate-filled rhetoric, and allow the math to speak for itself. Was I headline baiting to get a point across? Yes. Should I or could I have taken more time to come up with a better, but equally definitive title that did not use the word 'racist'? Absolutely. Was I race-baiting? Hardly. Would you have read it if it was titled, "Newt Gingrich Hates Muslims" ... not likely, nor would have many Westerners not have - it would have been of no surprise and likely a sentiment they too hold, thanks to continual saturation of people propagating and promoting generalized, misguided, and untruthful conclusions about all of Islam, about all Muslims.

    By all means, Mr. Obama, teach me the true path to your understanding. How was it right? How was it specific? How does it speak for all Muslims? How does it speak to your teachings, if you are willing or able to so expound upon versus pounce on.
     
    wrmineo, Aug 6, 2010 IP
  17. supernal

    supernal Member

    Messages:
    613
    Likes Received:
    5
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    33
    #17
    Mass media, socio-economics, racist ideologies transfered from generation to generation, and exaggerated reactions to situations and circumstances (ie, got mugged by a black man, now afraid of every black man)
     
    supernal, Aug 6, 2010 IP
    wrmineo likes this.
  18. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,581
    Likes Received:
    149
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    155
    #18
    Rob/wrmineo: As you know I don't like the idea of a mosque in lower Manhatten near Ground Zero. I've scarcely described why I think its a repugnant idea.

    Nevertheless, I cringed when seeing that two active political commentators, possible candidates for President, Gingrich and Sara Palin, joined in the discussion and supported the same perspective as do I. I had not read any of their commentary on the issue. only learned through the news that were against the mosque, as am I. I read the excerpt from the Gingrich newsletter you described.

    Is Gingrich a racist? I think he is a lifelong poltical opportunist who will do or say anything that will get his chubby ass back into political office. On that basis he is not much different from most politicians today and of days past.

    I'm old. An old friend/contemporary of mine, ran two of Gingrich's earlier campaign's. Ultimately this friend thought he was a scumbag that would step on his wife and mother to secure political favor.

    Of interest, if one followed Clinton's history, one could make similar claims. Apparently, Clinton and Gingrich charmed one another when one was Pres and the other was chief boss man of the House majority/and opposition. Possibly two peas from the same pod representing different political views. (at the very least they both had a long history of wandering gonads)

    Do we still have racism? Sure. Do loud mouthed politicians fan the flames? Absolutely.

    I don't want to see loud mouthed politicians join the debate. Behind every one of their comments is an effort to promote their primary interests: THEMSELVES.
     
    earlpearl, Aug 6, 2010 IP
  19. robjones

    robjones Notable Member

    Messages:
    4,256
    Likes Received:
    405
    Best Answers:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    240
    #19
    Geeze, I'll stay outta the thread already... no need to get all snippy. :-p
     
    robjones, Aug 6, 2010 IP
  20. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,970
    Likes Received:
    204
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    180
    #20
    If Charles Manson were to speak out against child molestation, it wouldn't make child molestation a good thing, or opposing it a bad thing. I do know what you are saying though. Take your last post for instance, I agreed with more than 90% of it, but knowing your die hard leftist view of the world, I had to question myself ;).

    Regarding the self serving nature of politicians, I believe it is a pre-requisite of the job, much like vanity is somewhat of a pre-requisite to an acting career. If you get a chance, you should check out the local radio station(KFI/John and Ken show) interview with Meg Whitman. It was pretty evident by the end of the interview she would adopt just about any opinion that she thought would get her elected. Perhaps it goes part and parcel with our electoral process.

    Yet you quoted it, I asked specific questions about it, and you haven't answered. Citing the entire article as offensive is useless unless you are able to highlight excerpts that illustrate your point. So far, you have been completely unable to do so. What is it about the article, or more specifically, the section you highlighted, that you find offensive?

    Pure comedy my friend. You present an article as evidence that Gingrich is a "racist", yet cite nothing from it, then try and dump the burden of proof that Gingrich is not a racist on those who ask for you to present some evidence. I LIKE IT!

    Let me try that style of argumentation out. My claim: You are a pedophile. My evidence: Your previous posts on this thread. Now prove me wrong! Are you picking up what I'm putting down?

    As a Muslim, I can definitely vouch for the truth of your claim that Muslims practice their religion in different ways. In lieu of some other piece of evidence to support your claim that Mr. Gingrich painted all Muslims with the same brush, I'll assume you would like to use your excerpt from his newsletter as evidence of your claim. You'll note that Mr. Gingrich did not say Muslims/Islam stand in opposition to western values, but rather Sharia law, so let me ask you again. Was he wrong?

    Perhaps if you were to present some clear and legitimate evidence, the rest of us could appreciate the merits of your claims. Such outrageous claims without evidence leave the reader the impression you are just another lunatic voice from the partisan fringe, or is that a partisan voice from the lunatic fringe.
     
    Obamanation, Aug 6, 2010 IP