It didnt have to be done, if pontious pilate said no I wont kill him he did nothing wrong or if the jews released Jesus instead of barabas he wouldnt have had to be crucified. But human nature is a jealous and cowardly thing so an innocent man died. You can say it was pre-destined and that it was part of Gods plan but thats just an excuse, the reality is if people were better Jesus wouldn't have died. So I guess it would be true to say Jesus died because of our sins.
I think it is very interesting how NO ONE commented on reading Genesis 3:15 and how THAT has everything to do with the death of Jesus. Did anyone actually read it?? Col
Who ever did it, can he be forgiven for that particular sin? I mean, killing Jesus must be a hell of a sin.
hahaha ROFL hahaha Oh why am I laughing everyone? Because he said that then went on to say basically the same thing I said. Except for thim being locked up for being a nut job in today's world, even though that happens to be true as well
I suppose that before we can debate who was responsible for the death of the mysterous JC, we should first examine whether or not JC existed!
Hmmm....As to who is to blame - ALL of us The only important thing is that it is done, finished. Death has no hold on Jesus nor does it have a final hold on the believer - that's the Christian's faith position. "Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.....But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. ...God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact." Peter (eye-witness) in Acts Chap 2 verse 14 New International Version God knows everything, so it was all known from the beginning of time. So it was true in Gen 3:15 and it is true later. Cheers
It was and is a divine plan to reconsile us with God the Father and bring us back to Adams time and to continue from there one more time, - but this time without sin but with eternal life.
I don't think it is a goal to bring us back to Adam's time...instead it is a plan where we can live with God in His kingdom which will be established here on earth.
I have read it, but I don't see your point. Can you explain please? I had a look at Genesis 3:15 intentionally from the Jewish Torah point of view (after all it’s their book) and I can’t see any mention of Christ! Bereishit - Chapter 3:15 “And I shall place hatred between you and between the woman, and between your seed and between her seed. He will crush your head, and you will bite his heel." Rashi's Commentary
It doesn't contradict with my statement at all. But remember, the promise was with Adam and Eve until they broke the rules and immediately God introduced his plan for our rescue. It was here already and he's going to give it again. He also said that his creation was perfect. Even though Adam reached the age of 930 years, Methusala 969 we slowly degenerated since that time.
No, the thread originator asked the question already assuming that He did exist. That would just be hijacking the thread.
Hmm... don't remember saying "Jesus was both a genius and a nut job who believed himself to be the son of God or the embodiment of God on earth whichever story you believe in.", but glad I made you laugh I guess. It's good for you. Especially when you're Agnostic and never know what to believe or not believe... it must get stressful.
I think he just meant that God sacrificing his son was necessary to give us a way out of Adam and Eve's original sin that was transferred down to us.
OK. You wanted to find out how relevant Jesus' death is to Genesis 3:15? Read on (this is quite deep, but concentrate and you will see how this goes): The Grand Theme of the Bible Interpreting the Scriptures The mysteries locked up in the book of Revelation have for long baffled sincere students of the Bible. In God’s due time, those secrets had to be unlocked, but how, when, and to whom? Only God’s spirit could make known the meaning as the appointed time drew near. (Revelation 1:3) Those sacred secrets would be revealed to God’s zealous slaves on earth so that they would be strengthened to make known his judgments. (Matthew 13:10, 11) It is not claimed that the explanations in this publication are infallible. Like Joseph of old, we say: “Do not interpretations belong to God?†(Genesis 40:8) At the same time, however, we firmly believe that the explanations set forth herein harmonize with the Bible in its entirety, showing how remarkably divine prophecy has been fulfilled in the world events of our catastrophic times. A BIBLE proverb says: “Better is the end afterward of a matter than its beginning.†(Ecclesiastes 7:8) It is in the book of Revelation that we read of the dramatic culmination of Jehovah’s grand purpose to sanctify his name before all creation. As God declared time and time again by one of his earlier prophets: “They will have to know that I am Jehovah.â€â€”Ezekiel 25:17; 38:23. 2 Just as Revelation spells out the triumphant end of matters, so their beginning is described for us in earlier books of the Bible. By examining this record, we are enabled to understand the issues involved and get an overall view of God’s purposes. How satisfying this is! Further, it should rouse us to action, so that we may share in the marvelous future that awaits mankind. (Psalm 145:16, 20) At this point, it seems appropriate to discuss the background and theme of the entire Bible, in order that we may have in mind the paramount issue that now faces all humankind, as well as God’s clearly stated purpose to resolve that issue. 3 The Bible’s first book, Genesis, tells of “the beginning†and describes God’s creative works, including his crowning earthly creation, man. Genesis also sets out the first divine prophecy, uttered by God himself in the garden of Eden some 6,000 years ago. A serpent had just been used to deceive the first woman, Eve; she in turn had persuaded her husband, Adam, to join her in violating Jehovah’s law by eating from “the tree of the knowledge of good and bad.†In passing judgment on the sinful couple, God said to the serpent: “I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel.†(Genesis 1:1; 2:17; 3:1-6, 14, 15) That prophecy sets the theme for the whole Bible, including Revelation. 4 Immediately after uttering the prophecy, God expelled our first parents from Eden. No longer could they look forward to everlasting life in Paradise; they would have to live out their lives in the unprepared earth outside. Under sentence of death, they would produce sin-laden children. (Genesis 3:23–4:1; Romans 5:12) What, though, does the Edenic prophecy mean? Who are involved? How does it link up with Revelation? What message does it have for us today? In order to gain personal relief from the effects of the tragic event that led to Jehovah’s uttering that prophecy, it is of vital concern that we know the answers to these questions. The Principals in the Drama 5 The prophecy of Genesis 3:15 was addressed to the serpent that had lied to Eve, suggesting to her that she would not die for her disobedience but that she would become independent, a goddess. The serpent thus made Jehovah out to be a liar and insinuated that humans could improve their lot by rejecting His supreme rulership. (Genesis 3:1-5) Jehovah’s sovereignty was challenged and his good name besmirched. The book of Revelation describes how the righteous Judge, Jehovah, uses the Kingdom rule of his Son, Jesus Christ, to vindicate his sovereignty and clear all reproach from his name.—Revelation 12:10; 14:7. 6 As for that term “serpent,†does it apply only to a literal snake? Not at all! Revelation identifies for us the infamous spirit creature that spoke through that snake. It was “the great dragon . . . , the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth,†that “seduced Eve by its cunning.â€â€”Revelation 12:9; 2 Corinthians 11:3. 7 Genesis 3:15 speaks next of “the woman.†Was this Eve? Possibly she thought so. (Compare Genesis 4:1.) But a long-lasting enmity between Eve and Satan became impossible when Eve died more than 5,000 years ago. Further, since the Serpent addressed by Jehovah is an invisible spirit, we should expect that the woman also belongs to the spirit realm. Revelation 12:1, 2 confirms this, indicating that this figurative woman is Jehovah’s heavenly organization of spirit creatures.—See also Isaiah 54:1, 5, 13. Two Seeds in Opposition 8 Two seeds appear next at Genesis 3:15. We should be deeply interested in these, for they are related to the great issue of rightful sovereignty over this earth. This involves each one of us, whether young or old. Which of these seeds do you favor? 9 First, there is the seed, or offspring, of the Serpent. What is this? It surely includes those other spirit creatures who joined Satan in his rebellion and who were finally “hurled down with him†to the realm of the earth. (Revelation 12:9) Since Satan, or Beelzebub, is “the ruler of the demons,†it is apparent that they make up his invisible organization.—Mark 3:22; Ephesians 6:12. 10 Further, Jesus told Jewish religious leaders of his day: “You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father.†(John 8:44) By their opposition to God’s Son Jesus, those religious leaders showed that they too were Satan’s offspring. They were part of Satan’s seed, serving him as their figurative father. Many other humans throughout history have similarly identified themselves by doing Satan’s will, particularly in opposing and persecuting the disciples of Jesus. Collectively, these humans may be described as making up Satan’s visible organization on earth.—See John 15:20; 16:33; 17:15. The Seed of the Woman Identified 11 The prophecy at Genesis 3:15 refers finally to the seed of the woman. While Satan was developing his seed, Jehovah was preparing for his “woman,†or wifelike celestial organization, to produce a seed. For some 4,000 years, Jehovah progressively revealed to obedient God-fearing humans details related to the coming of the seed. (Isaiah 46:9, 10) Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and others could thus build faith in the promise that the seed would appear in their genealogical line. (Genesis 22:15-18; 26:4; 28:14) Satan and his henchmen often persecuted such servants of Jehovah because of their unswerving faith.—Hebrews 11:1, 2, 32-38. 12 At last, in the year 29 of our Common Era, the perfect man Jesus presented himself at the Jordan River and was baptized. Jehovah there begot Jesus with holy spirit, saying: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.†(Matthew 3:17) Jesus was there identified as having been sent forth from God’s spiritual organization in heaven. He was also anointed as the King-Designate of the heavenly Kingdom that would restore rulership over the earth in Jehovah’s name, thus settling once and for all the issue involving government, or sovereignty. (Revelation 11:15) Jesus, then, is the principal One of the seed of the woman, the foretold Messiah.—Compare Galatians 3:16; Daniel 9:25. 13 Would the woman’s seed be simply one prominent person? Well, what of Satan’s seed? The Bible identifies Satan’s seed as including a host of wicked angels and God-dishonoring humans. It should not surprise us, then, to learn of God’s purpose to select 144,000 integrity keepers from among mankind to become priestly corulers with the Messianic Seed, Jesus Christ. Revelation refers to these when it says that the Devil, in his enmity toward God’s womanly organization, “went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her seed.â€â€”Revelation 12:17; 14:1-4. 14 In the Bible, anointed Christians are called Jesus’ brothers, and as his brothers, they share the same Father and the same mother. (Hebrews 2:11) Their Father is Jehovah God. Hence, their mother must be “the woman,†God’s wifelike celestial organization. They become a secondary part of the seed, Christ Jesus being the primary part. The congregation of these spirit-begotten Christians on earth make up God’s visible organization that serves under his womanlike organization in the heavens, where they will be united with Christ Jesus at their resurrection. (Romans 8:14-17; Galatians 3:16, 29) Though not part of the seed, millions of other sheep out of all nations are being united to serve with God’s organization on earth. Are you one of these other sheep? Then your happy hope is everlasting life in a paradise earth.—John 10:16; 17:1-3. How Enmity Developed 15 Satan’s human seed began to be manifested very early in mankind’s history. For example, there was Cain, the first human born, “who originated with the wicked one and slaughtered his brother†Abel. (1 John 3:12) Later, Enoch spoke of Jehovah’s coming “with his holy myriads, to execute judgment against all, and to convict all the ungodly concerning all their ungodly deeds that they did in an ungodly way, and concerning all the shocking things that ungodly sinners spoke against him.†(Jude 14, 15) Moreover, rebellious angels joined Satan and became part of his seed. These “forsook their own proper dwelling place†in the heavens in order to materialize fleshly bodies and marry the daughters of men. They produced a superhuman hybrid offspring of bullies. That world became filled with violence and badness, so that God destroyed it in the Deluge, faithful Noah and his family being the only human flesh to survive. The disobedient angels—now demons under Satan’s control—were forced to abandon their doomed human wives and hybrid children. They dematerialized, returning to the spirit realm where they await God’s fast-approaching execution of judgment on Satan and his seed.—Jude 6; Genesis 6:4-12; 7:21-23; 2 Peter 2:4, 5. 16 Shortly after the great Deluge, a tyrant named Nimrod appeared on earth. The Bible describes him as “a mighty hunter in opposition to Jehovahâ€â€”truly part of the Serpent’s seed. Like Satan, he showed a spirit of rebellion and built the city of Babel, or Babylon, in defiance of Jehovah’s purpose to have mankind spread out to fill the earth. Babylon’s centerpiece was to have been a great tower “with its top in the heavens.†God thwarted the would-be builders of that tower. He confused their language and “scattered them from there over all the surface of the earth†but allowed Babylon itself to remain.—Genesis 9:1; 10:8-12; 11:1-9. Political Powers Appear 17 In Babylon there appeared features of human society that developed in defiance of Jehovah’s sovereignty. One of these was political. As mankind multiplied, other ambitious humans followed Nimrod’s example in seizing power. Man began to dominate man to his injury. (Ecclesiastes 8:9) During the days of Abraham, for instance, Sodom, Gomorrah, and nearby cities fell under the control of kings from Shinar and other far-distant lands. (Genesis 14:1-4) Eventually, military and organizational geniuses carved out huge empires for their own enrichment and glory. The Bible refers to some of these, including Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome. 18 Jehovah tolerated the existence of those political powers, and his people rendered relative obedience to them when they lived in lands under their control. (Romans 13:1, 2) Sometimes, political authorities even served for the furtherance of God’s purposes or as a protection for his people. (Ezra 1:1-4; 7:12-26; Acts 25:11, 12; Revelation 12:15, 16) Nevertheless, many political rulers have viciously opposed true worship, showing themselves to be part of the seed of the Serpent.—1 John 5:19. 19 For the most part, man-rule has failed miserably to bring happiness to us humans or to solve our problems. Jehovah has permitted mankind to experiment with every form of government, but he does not approve of corruption or the way governments have misruled the people. (Proverbs 22:22, 23) Revelation portrays oppressive world powers as making up a proud and monstrous wild beast.—Revelation 13:1, 2. Selfish Commercial Traffickers 20 Closely allied to political leaders, there came into view dishonest traffickers in material goods. Records unearthed in the ruins of ancient Babylon show that business transactions exploiting the unfortunate circumstances of fellow humans were very much in vogue back there. The world’s merchants have continued to work for selfish profit down to this present day, when in many lands a few have become very rich while the majority of the population languishes in poverty. In this industrial age, the merchants and manufacturers have made great gain by supplying the political powers with stockpiles of devilish military weapons of destruction, including the weapons of mass destruction that are now a great cause for concern. Such greedy business magnates and others of their kind must be included with the “military commanders†and “strong men†as belonging to Satan’s wicked seed. They are all part of the earthly organization that God and Christ judge as deserving of execution.—Revelation 19:18. 21 To corrupt politics and greedy commercialism there must be added a third element of human society that merits God’s adverse judgment. What is that? You may be surprised by what Revelation says about this well-known global structure. Babylon the Great 22 The building of the original Babylon was more than a political enterprise. Since that city was established in defiance of Jehovah’s sovereignty, religion was involved. Indeed, ancient Babylon became a fountain of religious idolatry. Its priests taught God-dishonoring doctrines, such as the survival of a human soul after death and that the hereafter is a place of eternal horror and torment presided over by demons. They fostered the worship of creatures and of a multitude of gods and goddesses. They fabricated myths to explain the origin of the earth and man upon it and performed degrading rituals and sacrifices, supposedly to ensure fertility in childbearing and crop raising, and victory in war. 23 As the various language groups from Babylon spread out over the earth, they took Babylonish religion with them. Thus, rites and beliefs similar to those of ancient Babylon flourished among the original inhabitants of Europe, Africa, the Americas, the Far East, and the South Seas; and many of these beliefs persist to this day. Appropriately, then, Revelation refers to the world-embracing empire of false religion as a city named Babylon the Great. (Revelation, chapters 17, 18) Wherever it has been sown, false religion has sprouted oppressive priesthoods, superstition, ignorance, and immorality. It has been a powerful tool in Satan’s hand. Babylon the Great has always fought fiercely against the true worship of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. 24 As a most reprehensible part of the seed of the Serpent, the scribes and the Pharisees in first-century Judaism took the lead in persecuting and finally murdering the primary representative of the seed of the woman. Thus, the Serpent was able to “bruise him [the “seedâ€] in the heel.†(Genesis 3:15; John 8:39-44; Acts 3:12, 15) Why is this described as only a heel wound? It is because this wounding touched him only briefly here on earth. It was not permanent because Jehovah resurrected Jesus on the third day and exalted him to spirit life.—Acts 2:32, 33; 1 Peter 3:18. 25 The glorified Jesus Christ now serves at God’s right hand, judging Jehovah’s enemies. He has already taken action against Satan and his angels, hurling them down and confining their activity to this earth—which accounts for the multiplying of woes in our day. (Revelation 12:9, 12) But there will be the foretold removal of Satan’s earthly seed when God executes judgment on Babylon the Great and all other segments of Satan’s organization on earth. Finally, the Seed of God’s woman, Jesus Christ, will bruise Satan, that wily old serpent, “in the head,†and that will mean his complete annihilation and his total removal from the affairs of mankind.—Romans 16:20. 26 How will all of this come about? That is what is unveiled for us in the Bible book of Revelation. It is revealed to us in a series of visions, highlighted by striking signs and symbols. Eagerly, let us examine this powerful prophecy. Happy, indeed, are we if we hear and observe the words of Revelation! By so doing, we will share in bringing honor to the name of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah and inherit his eternal blessings. Please read on and wisely apply what you learn. It can mean your salvation at this time of climax in mankind’s history. Col
Thank you. I’ve seen many weird interpretations, but I think this one is out of order. The Jewish interpretation made far more sense in the Genesis context. The Christian interpretation somehow made this in the figurative sense and off by magic and to their benefit, the "Seed" of the woman became Jesus Christ!