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Where Do You Tap Into?

Discussion in 'Copywriting' started by MarkAndrews IMCopywriting, Feb 6, 2011.

  1. #1
    Which websites do you tap into...

    To find the best article writing / content writing / copywriting advice?

    In their respective categories, (either one or all of the above)...

    Where do you go online... when you need the best advice possible?
    SEMrush
     
    SEMrush
  2. YMC

    YMC Well-Known Member

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    #2
    I rarely look for advice from writer's websites because what is shared is often not much more than a teaser for their latest top secret, super-fantabulous ebook or their exclusive, limited to only a few of the finest students who are willing to pay me hundreds of dollars to attend coaching webinar or private newsletter. The few "special offers" that I looked into were nothing more than information which could be obtained by visiting just about any webmaster forum and spending a few hours reading.

    Even the ones who start out trying to create a forum or blog offering free advice eventually start dumbing down their information and offering their real advice only to paying customers. Far be it from me to say someone can't make money by selling their expertise but way too many of these self-proclaimed gurus are simply taking advantage of desperate newbies.
     
    YMC, Feb 6, 2011 IP
  3. MarkAndrews IMCopywriting

    MarkAndrews IMCopywriting Peon

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    #3
    Well, there is another side to the coin of course.

    Take copywriting for example, salesmanship-in-print...

    Why would I be willing to share out all of my top copywriting knowledge completely for free, after putting in, in excess of 12,000 hours learning the craft?

    Why should I simply give away my hard earned knowledge to some 'desperate newbie'... who more often than not, cannot be bothered to put in the work for themselves... to learn what they need to know?

    Let me turn the tables on your comment for a moment...

    If you put in a huge amount of hours to learn a professional business trade, spending thousands of dollars on your education... would you be willing to simply give everything away, absolutely free?

    I highly doubt it.

    You make it sound like 'desperate' newbies deserve all of the help they can get.

    And this should be handed to them on a plate.

    Is this REALLY what you're stating here?

    Try telling that one to your lawyer or dentist or real estate agent, "Hey! I want this knowledge for free because I'm desperate!"

    Doesn't work that way my friend, not in business, least not where I come from.

    You want something, knowledge, skills, labor - whatever it is... first you get out your wallet and you pay for it.

    That's a fair barter system for you in a capitalistic western democracy.

    What's YOUR alternative?

    Best,


    Mark Andrews...
     
    bogart likes this.
  4. YMC

    YMC Well-Known Member

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    #4
    I think you totally misunderstood me. I'm not against people making money by selling their knowledge, I'm just against "professionals" ripping people off.

    I cringe every time I see someone proclaim, I'm going to write an ebook on copywriting, content writing or SEO. Just because someone can write doesn't mean that they can teach. The vast majority of the "informational products" I've seen read a lot like MFA filler - lots of words with little useful information being presented. My favorites are the ones that tease a little information and then make the hard sell to spend even more money for the "real" package.


    It took me years of slogging in the business world, tens of thousands of dollars in tuition and the nightmare of earning a master's degree while working in a thankless 80 hour per week job to gain the skills I have now. Why should I just hand over that knowledge to someone because they visit my website, blog or forum?

    However, I do believe that current pros have some responsibility to help those who are coming up behind them - it's part of why I hang around here. That said, I am far from a fan of giving away the farm.

    I believe that many of the skills required to be a great copywriter can't be taught - they can only be learned from years of experience in both writing and the business world. I suspect very few copywriters just decided one day, "Hey, I'm gonna be a copywriter!" Most I know have worked in a number of industries and wore a variety of hats before they realized, "Hey, I am a copywriter."

    There is no course that will teach you how to figure out the USP for a small business when the business owner doesn't even know what it is. There is no one-sized fits all article writing strategy. There is no checklist of courses to take and there's no quick fix to becoming a talented copywriter but that's exactly what so many of these gurus are claiming to offer. They are taking advantage of newbies and they are selling what amounts to snake oil. It's unseemly and gives us all a bad name.

    Your example of dentists and real estate agents is a poor one. Both dentists and real estate agents must attend formal schooling and be licensed to ply their trade. Unfortunately, with copywriting and general web writing there are no standard course requirements or certifications. Any schmuck can proclaim themselves a "professional" and lure in unsuspecting newbies or customers and take their money with false promises.
     
    YMC, Feb 6, 2011 IP
  5. ruletheworld

    ruletheworld Peon

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    #5
    Ok, I am definitely not against someone selling books but I don't follow your argument. Dentists or lawyers sell "skill" which is very very different from "knowledge". Knowledge is free, and that includes dentists, lawyers and even scientists. It is the skill that should count. I have spent hundreds and thousands of dollars and hours on my education and I am totally willing to give away things I know absolutely free. No catch. What I know is not what distinguishes me. It is what I can do with what I know. In this digital world, knowledge is not a premium, skill is. I guess it is the same with copywriting.
     
    ruletheworld, Feb 6, 2011 IP
    YMC likes this.
  6. lightless

    lightless Notable Member

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    #6
    Good advice is hard to find, and usually isn't free. Personal experience is usually the best teacher. Best to learn from your own experiences and observations.

    That being said, I have grown to like

    http://www.infomarketingblog.com/
     
    lightless, Feb 7, 2011 IP
  7. MarkAndrews IMCopywriting

    MarkAndrews IMCopywriting Peon

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    #7
    It may be a poor analogy YMC but still...

    What on earth do any of your comments have to do with my opening post?

    If you wish to take this up with me via PM, please do so.

    Thanks.


    Mark Andrews...
     
  8. MarkAndrews IMCopywriting

    MarkAndrews IMCopywriting Peon

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    #8
    Now this indeed is bang on topic. Nail. Head.

    And a brilliant link too.

    Thank you for posting this up, immediately bookmarked.

    Kindest regards and best wishes,


    Mark Andrews...
     
  9. omarabid

    omarabid Well-Known Member

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    #9
    Marc Andrews

    I think you don't differentiate between knowledge and skills. Let me tell you, almost any information (medicine, programming, marketing...) can be found for free in the web. Hell, MIT (one of the best universities in USA) offers its' courses for free.

    There is something else. There is skill and there is ability. Not everyone can learn programming, but almost anyone can navigate the Internet and spend his time on Facebook. Some software developers get paid $15/hour and others $200/hour.

    If you think you have valuable knowledge because you have spent so much $$$ in your education... you are wrong. And the most wonderful and expensive experiments in the world are available for public freely. And don't forget that the aim isn't to possess knowledge but actually to share it. You should find out a way to share your knowledge with an effective cost for those in third-world countries and the unable to get to university because of the costs.
     
    omarabid, Feb 7, 2011 IP
  10. MarkAndrews IMCopywriting

    MarkAndrews IMCopywriting Peon

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    #10
    It seems that your reading comprehension is a little out of sync too.

    Tell me, from my OP... what your comments have to do with this thread?

    I'll tell you to save you the trouble of figuring out for yourself...

    Nothing at all. Not a bean. Nada. Zilch. A big fat zero.

    The two questions posed were...

    Which websites do you tap into...

    To find the best article writing / content writing / copywriting advice?


    And...

    Where do you go online... when you need the best advice possible?

    I certainly don't need you lecturing me on what my priorities should be, after spending almost 30 years running my own company.

    And tell me, why should I position my business services for the needs of the lowest common denominator from a financial perspective?

    You have zero clue what I do for charity to help other people, so before you judge me... do a little research first.

    I'm in business to make money not to give away all of my knowledge willy nilly completely free of charge, just because most people these days... are too lazy to get off their own backsides and learn what they need to know to move their personal life forwards.

    Thanks all the same for your advice but next time, do keep it to yourself.

    Thanks,


    Mark Andrews...
     
  11. MarkAndrews IMCopywriting

    MarkAndrews IMCopywriting Peon

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    #11
    Someone just sent this to me which I thought was extremely good advice...

    From Jon McCulloch copywriter from Ireland, whose work has appeared in Bill Glazer's book, Outrageous Advertising that's Outrageously Successful...

    It's about 'entitlement'...

    Let's get on with Philosophical Friday, and the difference between deservedness and entitlement.

    For reasons I can't even begin to fathom most folks seem to have a sense of entitlement - they seem to think life ought to be "fair" and we should all have an equal share of whatever pie seems to be available.

    This is all fine and dandy in principle, but the gritty reality is we're not all equal. I don't mean we're not all equally deserving, at least at the outset, but we don't have equal abilities, motivation, or, indeed, goals. And if you're not prepared to put in the same effort as the next man or woman, then why might you think you're entitled to the same rewards?

    You ain't. I know I could have made a lot more money if I'd put in more effort, but I didn't and I haven't. And that is very fair, even if it's annoying at times.

    What's more, many of us don't get what we deserve, and often we're entitled to things we might think are undeserved. You can work hard all your life and no one would deny you deserve success.

    But you're not entitled to it, and you might not get it; more important, you're certainly not entitled to a share of others' success just because you want things to be "fair". If you create a product no one wants, there's no point in criticising your market for being lazy or stupid - because you are the stupid one for not asking them what they would buy before you sat down to create the damned thing.

    Listen: when I go out on my bike, I take dog biscuits with me.

    Why?

    Because I like dogs. But also, it's an easy way for me to make friends with them and stop them chasing me and running under my wheels. What I don't do is take apples, parsnips or carrots... because that's not what my doggy-market wants. Horses and donkeys on my walk, however... they get the veggies.

    In other words, people are going to buy what they want to buy, not what you want to sell and no matter how unfair you think that is, or how deserving you are of sales because of all the work you put in, or how you think you're entitled to share in the profits of commerce... the fact is none of that matters a bit.

    Bottom line: we live in a universe completely oblivious to our presence (unless you take Bill Bryson's line "we are atoms' way of thinking about themselves", which is kind of awesome when you think about it).

    It doesn't care about us and it isn't and never will be fair. We can't change that. Moreover, we can't make societies, economies and other complex-adaptive systems bend to our will by imposing order and structure from above and insisting things are more "fair".

    Change for the better comes from the individual actions of each of us multiplied by several orders of magnitude.

    And as Jim Rohn used to say, "if you start to change, everything will change for you".

    Well, strictly there are no guarantees, but you improve your chances of succeeding at life (however you decide to define success for yourself), if you take responsibility and forget any notion of how unfair things are.

    Deal with the universe as it is, not how you think it is, want it to be, or believe it should be.

    http://www.JonMcCulloch.com

    Very good points. And completely in line with my reply given above.


    Mark Andrews...
     
  12. omarabid

    omarabid Well-Known Member

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    #12
    Mark, we are living different countries and we are having different life and cultures. While someone believes that a business is a business, someone else may think that information should be available for free. Even Universities are different, some protect its courses and some like MIT offers them for free.

    It's your ability to open your mind for others' ideas that will make you advance forward. Still, this is my opinion and you can have a different one.
     
    omarabid, Feb 11, 2011 IP
  13. MarkAndrews IMCopywriting

    MarkAndrews IMCopywriting Peon

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    #13
    What is it precisely that you do not understand?

    If you doubt my willingness to help out other people, giving my time away for free... I suggest you check out my forum below.

    Not that you're freely entitled to my help of course, with your attitude.

    And again, do stop derailing this thread. Your replies have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the topic in hand.

    Is your reading comprehension really so bad?
     
  14. zamir

    zamir Peon

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    #14
    very interesting discussion, i am enjoying reading this.
     
    zamir, Feb 11, 2011 IP
  15. YMC

    YMC Well-Known Member

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    #15
    Gee, it only took us 13 posts to get to the real point of this thread - your new forum, coincidentally launched the same day you started this thread. :rolleyes: You asked for opinions. You don't like the answers. Such is life. Too bad you simply didn't invite everyone to check out your forum instead.
     
    YMC, Feb 11, 2011 IP
  16. MarkAndrews IMCopywriting

    MarkAndrews IMCopywriting Peon

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    #16
    No wonder this forum attracts such low quality riff raff.

    All you guys ever do is stalk posts to post up negative comments. Always someone here on the attack looking to pick holes in other people's good efforts.

    This forum is a complete waste of time.

    I think I may just as well delete my account, it's next to useless posting here with people like you guys around. Little wonder this place attracts no high quality mature posters and business people.

    Requested my account to be deleted...

    http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=2091337#post15771826
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2011
  17. omarabid

    omarabid Well-Known Member

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    #17
    Mark you complain about getting out of the point of that thread, and you are the first one to support that. Just get back to the second post and you'll find that your third one is off-topic.
     
    omarabid, Feb 13, 2011 IP
  18. lightless

    lightless Notable Member

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    #18
    If you get offended at negative comments, you will find nowhere to run on the internet. Develop a tough skin and an ability to ignore (Non-constructive) criticism, it will serve you in good stead.
     
    lightless, Feb 14, 2011 IP
  19. Perry Rose

    Perry Rose Peon

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    #19
    Well, might as well not let this thread go completely in the shits.

    Oh, sorry, ladies.

    For those who are looking:

    http://www.makealivingwriting.com/

    The above is not on copywriting, but it is one of the best blogs on writing I have read so far.

    Read her "most popular posts," which are off to the right, and down some.



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kfsnjcUNiw

    http://www.awaionline.com/

    http://www.infomarketingblog.com/

    http://www.carlinecole.com/default.htm

    http://www.directcreative.com/blog/


    This one is an excellent source for reading advice from the top A-list copywriters of today, along with reading the interviews on some of them.
    http://www.imnewswatch.com/tag/clayton-makepeace/


    http://magalogguy.com/blog/


    I haven't read too deeply into this one, but I found a few good entries:

    http://dankennedy.com/blog/
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2011
    Perry Rose, Feb 14, 2011 IP
  20. Perry Rose

    Perry Rose Peon

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    #20
    Perry Rose, Feb 15, 2011 IP