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What's the first programming language a child might use today?

Discussion in 'Programming' started by CP/M User, Jun 30, 2008.

  1. #1
    Like the title suggests - I was just curious if BASIC (i.e. Visual BASIC) was still the language, though there's just so many other languages floating out there it seems likely that their would be alternative Languages to use.

    My second part of the puzzle relates to BASIC itself and how such a popular language back in the 1980s with Microcomputers doesn't get much mention nowadays outside Visual BASIC. I've heard of this Visual BASIC Script - though it doesn't sound very friendly and doesn't have the structure to it like those earlier BASICs did amongst micros. I guess the last of the IBM PC based ones which required that was GWBASIC - though QBASIC could support it as well, though didn't need to!

    I simply wondered how somebody hasn't made a simple, possibly near BASIC Interpreter which runs inside your Web browser and design it in such a way that it could be incorporated into a website for anyone who wants it and allow people to submit programs and run programs simply by clicking what's there! It's just a thought though!
     
    CP/M User, Jun 30, 2008 IP
  2. it career

    it career Notable Member

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    #2
    I think one can start with Basic and then move to VB .
     
    it career, Jun 30, 2008 IP
  3. brian65

    brian65 Active Member

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    #3
    I started my 7 year old son out with BBC Basic - an old fashion BASIC interpreter with line numbers included.
     
    brian65, Jun 30, 2008 IP
  4. CaffinePhil

    CaffinePhil Banned

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    #4
    I think alot of people start off now with one version of C or another.
     
    CaffinePhil, Jun 30, 2008 IP
  5. saurabhj

    saurabhj Banned

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    #5
    If he is starting his career in web technologies then I will prefer to start with HTML/CSS otherwise for Desktop application C is a better language to start with :)
     
    saurabhj, Jun 30, 2008 IP
  6. shabbirbhimani

    shabbirbhimani Well-Known Member

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    #6
    It depends on what niche he is likely to go.

    For Web guys it could be Php but for Application it would be better to go With C++
     
    shabbirbhimani, Jun 30, 2008 IP
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  7. rile

    rile Member

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    #7
    Pascal is great for making first steps in programming, especially for structured programming. After that Java for OOP.
     
    rile, Jun 30, 2008 IP
  8. CaffinePhil

    CaffinePhil Banned

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    #8
    What age child are we talking about here? Are you raising the next Bill Gates ;)
     
    CaffinePhil, Jun 30, 2008 IP
  9. CP/M User

    CP/M User Peon

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    #9
    No I'm serious about this, I was programming when I was a kid, did some BASIC on a Microcomputer, perhaps when I went to Primary School I didn't touch a computer there until the late 80s which had Apple IIe based computers and an Apple Mac Plus, though didn't really get into programming until 1992 at School, even though I was typing in BASIC programs in the late 80s! :-o Nowdays it seems that there's kids out there which are exposed to a computer as early as Kindergarden age of 4 or 5 or so! Honestly I don't expect Kids that young to try their hand at programming, though by the time their 10,11 or 12 that should be an avenue of consideration.

    I've posted simular threads on other forums and the people there generally see programming fading out of the spotlight and languages nowdays don't generally expect any programming knowledge at all and that programming has become so uptomated you don't need to program to produce a game or application! :-o

    Personally I believe the real world needs programmers and people have to start from somewhere, I find it somewhat incredible that people start with a language like C or one of it's recent incarnations (in which case if it were C++, good luck to them!). I done a little bit of C, though didn't see it as a language for Beginners.
     
    CP/M User, Jun 30, 2008 IP
  10. flawebworks

    flawebworks Tech Services

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    #10

    My son was installing his programs at 21/2 - 3. He's 11 years old now, and hacks games - not because I taught him, I can't do games. He wants to learn html and I'm teaching him that with some php.
     
    flawebworks, Jun 30, 2008 IP
  11. CP/M User

    CP/M User Peon

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    #11
    flawebworks wrote:

    My son was installing his programs at 21/2 - 3. He's 11 years old now, and hacks games - not because I taught him, I can't do games. He wants to learn html and I'm teaching him that with some php.

    Yeah, I've known a few people to Hack games, though they say they do that to get a better understanding of the tricks used in them and apply those in their programs.

    I've never been great at writing much from Scratch unless it's something I have to do or am interested in making some straightforward demo in something odd language. I usually combine elements of Assembly with my programs if I'm satisfied that Assembly will perform an operation better and then combine that with High-level code. The worst experience I had was writing a simple Text Demo in CBASIC86 v1.1 - the underlining code was straightforward, though it had to perform at the same speed by using a timed delay on an IBM based computer and Incorporating Assembly with CBASIC86 was simply the worst experience I undertook, eventually I managed to get it to work which made me feel great! Another limited language I wrote a Bouncing Ball demo for was SmallC86 v1.1, in that case I found it's ability to easily Incorporate Inline Assembly was unbelievable and straightforward! Not too many people fancied that program (they thought I was overloading the Stack Pointer or something) though I never had any problems with it and their suggestions only inhibited problems. I do a bit of BASIC from time to time, though have become more proficient in Turbo Pascal.
     
    CP/M User, Jun 30, 2008 IP
  12. AliasXNeo

    AliasXNeo Banned

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    #12
    Well still being in my youth I guess my opinion is worth something here.

    I didn't start too young, about the age of 13 (currently 17). I was basically interested in making programs that automated some basic gameplay on a web based MMORPG. I looked at C, C++, Java, even Python but all in all found Visual Basic the most appealing. I suppose the Basic nature and easy WYSIWYG designer really made things easy to develop with. Before long I was developing rather large applications.

    There's only one regret I made though, learning Visual Basic required me to unlearn a few things moving on to other languages. I'm not sure if it's simply the nature of BASIC, but I gained quite a few bad habits while using it. The weak overlay of OOP that VB gives made moving to languages like Java a real pain (I'm still learning things as we speak!).

    For a child, BASIC (and probably VB) is a good language to start out with but honestly I would start them out with something like VB.NET if anything. At least it doesn't shove OOP down your throat like Java and the child can make a gradual change to viewing things the OOP way. It certainly provides a lot more opportunity then something like VB6.
     
    AliasXNeo, Jun 30, 2008 IP
  13. CaffinePhil

    CaffinePhil Banned

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    #13
    Well I'm 26 now and still want to get my foot in the programming door. I've learnt HTML so I guess th next step would be to look at something web based but I just keep telling myself that its not real programming, lol.
     
    CaffinePhil, Jul 1, 2008 IP
  14. CP/M User

    CP/M User Peon

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    #14
    AliasXNeo wrote:

    Well still being in my youth I guess my opinion is worth something here.

    I didn't start too young, about the age of 13 (currently 17). I was basically interested in making programs that automated some basic gameplay on a web based MMORPG. I looked at C, C++, Java, even Python but all in all found Visual Basic the most appealing. I suppose the Basic nature and easy WYSIWYG designer really made things easy to develop with. Before long I was developing rather large applications.

    There's only one regret I made though, learning Visual Basic required me to unlearn a few things moving on to other languages. I'm not sure if it's simply the nature of BASIC, but I gained quite a few bad habits while using it. The weak overlay of OOP that VB gives made moving to languages like Java a real pain (I'm still learning things as we speak!).

    For a child, BASIC (and probably VB) is a good language to start out with but honestly I would start them out with something like VB.NET if anything. At least it doesn't shove OOP down your throat like Java and the child can make a gradual change to viewing things the OOP way. It certainly provides a lot more opportunity then something like VB6.


    Yeah I hear what you're saying cause I used VB for a short while though it was a long time ago (10 years ago now), which was when VB6 came out. Back then I did a Technology course which did a little bit on VB5. I remember failing that module because I was trying to take a BASIC program (written in Locomotive BASIC) and make it happen in VB5!! :-o

    I wonder sometimes if I had chose the Languages I wanted to learn rather than give me a whole new lot to pursue if the outcome would have been different for me. For example my Technology Course exposed me to C, C++ primarily, though I did some 8086 Assembly as well as some Z80 assembly (which I did very well in cause I had that knowledge prior to that!), COBOL & Visual BASIC on the side as well! I had trouble coming to grips with C further into the course as it got more intense, and C++ was the knockout blow! :-o

    Prior to that course I might of had some BASIC, Pascal & Delphi knowledge, I liked Delphi so much I thought I should do something along those lines though what they had when I got their was a little bit Outdated. Perhaps what I'd payed for was slightly different from what I was expecting as well and only program for pleasure nowadays as a result.

    Personally I feel it's a choice - if the course was more flexible in the languages I could use I might have passed - though there's only so much I can go on with and the Maths might have done me in anyway since I used to feel I was better at maths than what I am. If you want to Write Games in VB then you write games in VB, if Java is too hard - don't bother with it, if your interested in Web based programming try Web based programming, etc. There's so many different kinds of languages out there and sure there will be some which you ever wondered why were they written - usually there's a reason, though what it is isn't usually clear unfortunately.
     
    CP/M User, Jul 1, 2008 IP
  15. CP/M User

    CP/M User Peon

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    #15
    CaffinePhil wrote:

    Well I'm 26 now and still want to get my foot in the programming door. I've learnt HTML so I guess th next step would be to look at something web based but I just keep telling myself that its not real programming, lol.

    Then this stuff counts for nothing eh? HTML code is certainally closer to a Language than this formatted text I'm typing, and then you have Javascript or Java which I suppose are extra languages. And then there's languages specific to these forums. I don't know a lot about this side to programming and wondered what sort of Career Path that would get you. The only one I can think of is working for a company which designs web pages for various Companies and then you get idiots like me who are still on Dial-up and whinge about the size of those Images created! :-o
     
    CP/M User, Jul 1, 2008 IP
  16. Randombase

    Randombase Peon

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    #16
    I started around 13 - 14 with modifying games, basically copying the original source and adjusting the data between the structure. Not much later, around 15, I learned Perl by doing the same thing, and PHP was the next most logical step. I'm 18 now.

    I think pretty much any language that can be interpreted without a compiler is a good language to start with.
     
    Randombase, Jul 1, 2008 IP
  17. CaffinePhil

    CaffinePhil Banned

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    #17
    Javascript and Java are possibilities. I guess it all comes down to whether you can understand the logical side of things.
     
    CaffinePhil, Jul 1, 2008 IP
  18. blueparukia

    blueparukia Well-Known Member

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    #18
    Well at 12 years old I started with Visual Basic 6 and J++, and woah...I wouldn't touch it today. I progressed to the .NET languages (C#, VB.NET, J#, C++ and Delphi -as well as ASP.NET, but I am too picky about web optimization to use it) and RGSS (RpG maker) at 13 or 14 I think it was. 14 was also when I started HTML, CSS and PHP - and they taught LOGO and VB6 at school. Earlier this year I started (at 15) Javascript, ColdFusion, Java and pure C++ (no .NET reliance).

    So from my fairly recent experiences, I'd find an interest for the kid - whether it be applications, games or web development.

    For games I'd recommend getting RPG Maker XP or VX and, while it automates most of the process, start using RGSS (Ruby variant) to extend the games, since it would be bloody hard to start out on game development using C or Java and their variants - it'd be like an experienced C++ developer trying to migrate to ZZT-oop. Game maker and GML is also decent, but I've found it too...primitive for me I suppose.

    For applications, I really recommend MS Visual Studio, with Visual C# my number 1 preference - since it gives you tools for design, but the actual programming has to be done by hand, and C# and VB.NET are really easy.

    And for web development, a knowledge of HTML and CSS is a must before getting into the hardcore scripting - with my preference being PHP (easy to learn, lots of tutorials and examples to work off) for server side, and Javascript.

    Hope that helps.
     
    blueparukia, Jul 1, 2008 IP
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  19. CP/M User

    CP/M User Peon

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    #19
    blueparukia wrote:

    Well at 12 years old I started with Visual Basic 6 and J++, and woah...I wouldn't touch it today. I progressed to the .NET languages (C#, VB.NET, J#, C++ and Delphi -as well as ASP.NET, but I am too picky about web optimization to use it) and RGSS (RpG maker) at 13 or 14 I think it was. 14 was also when I started HTML, CSS and PHP - and they taught LOGO and VB6 at school. Earlier this year I started (at 15) Javascript, ColdFusion, Java and pure C++ (no .NET reliance).

    So from my fairly recent experiences, I'd find an interest for the kid - whether it be applications, games or web development.

    For games I'd recommend getting RPG Maker XP or VX and, while it automates most of the process, start using RGSS (Ruby variant) to extend the games, since it would be bloody hard to start out on game development using C or Java and their variants - it'd be like an experienced C++ developer trying to migrate to ZZT-oop. Game maker and GML is also decent, but I've found it too...primitive for me I suppose.

    For applications, I really recommend MS Visual Studio, with Visual C# my number 1 preference - since it gives you tools for design, but the actual programming has to be done by hand, and C# and VB.NET are really easy.

    And for web development, a knowledge of HTML and CSS is a must before getting into the hardcore scripting - with my preference being PHP (easy to learn, lots of tutorials and examples to work off) for server side, and Javascript.

    Hope that helps.


    Whoa!! That's some list! Cool I forgot to mention LOGO! :-D I just did some primitative Vector Graphics (in my Amstrad CPC emulator computer of course!) in BASIC and then punched in my Z80 Assembly routine to draw the image faster - works well. No profit in it of course, though it's purely a satisfaction thing of being able to produce something. Vector graphics were used a bit in the first few years after that machine was first introduced (1984) and then a new game came along (Driller or something) with Freescape graphics and made popular in the Total Eclipse games!
     
    CP/M User, Jul 2, 2008 IP
  20. blueparukia

    blueparukia Well-Known Member

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    #20
    Thats why I love doing it ;)

    I want to start making my own - I've done my own basic markup languages, and tonnes of "frameworks" in PHP as well as custom controls for the .NET platform. I just have trouble stopping programming :)

    I should probably try to attempt to learn Assembler, but it sounds complicated :S
     
    blueparukia, Jul 2, 2008 IP