1. Advertising
    y u no do it?

    Advertising (learn more)

    Advertise virtually anything here, with CPM banner ads, CPM email ads and CPC contextual links. You can target relevant areas of the site and show ads based on geographical location of the user if you wish.

    Starts at just $1 per CPM or $0.10 per CPC.

What's So Cool About Tableless CSS?

Discussion in 'HTML & Website Design' started by jgjg, Feb 26, 2007.

?

What do you think about tableless CSS design?

Poll closed Mar 2, 2007.
  1. nothing. don't even know what it is

    1 vote(s)
    3.6%
  2. a bit curious and know the concept but haven't tried.

    2 vote(s)
    7.1%
  3. a waste of time. tried it but would rather use html tables

    1 vote(s)
    3.6%
  4. it rocks! Highly recommend it. Huge timesaver and or improves design.

    24 vote(s)
    85.7%
  1. #1
    I posted a poll below because I have wondered about using tableless CSS.
    SEMrush
    Personally, after trying it I think it is overcomplicated and hard to make work well...but maybe someone has good arguements for it?

    let me know!
     
    jgjg, Feb 26, 2007 IP
    SEMrush
  2. 8everything

    8everything Peon

    Messages:
    16,350
    Likes Received:
    903
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #2
    OK well first of all I agree that it is complicated to code.. but so is trying to fix your HTML table so it looks good both on FF and IE. When you use HTML tables the width properties are sometimes completely different on FF and IE.. which makes it difficult for positioning your layout..

    With CSS, the width appears the same width on FF and IE. This is the safest route to go. You want your site to look good both in FF and IE.. not "broken"
     
    8everything, Feb 26, 2007 IP
  3. Clive

    Clive Web Developer

    Messages:
    4,507
    Likes Received:
    296
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    250
    #3
    This phrase was actually referring to tables, wasn't it..

    My vote in the poll should be somewhere between "Q waste of time. tried it but would rather use html tables" and "It rocks! Highly recommend it. Huge timesaver and or improves design."

    It takes time to study and get experienced with. But once you can handle it well (that includes being versed at finding workarounds to endless display issues with a CSS design because of cross browser support differences) it simply rocks.
     
    Clive, Feb 26, 2007 IP
  4. chopsticks

    chopsticks Active Member

    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    20
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    60
    #4
    I just think it's cool and it looks cleaner in the code.

    But really though, it isn't necessarily that complicated to do, the complication comes in when you try to make it work the same for all browsers. FireFox and Opera seem to do it the same or very a like, whilst Internet Explorer seems to add pixels here and there and doesn't like some containers with floats.

    The complication is mainly just the hacks or work-arounds to get it to work the same in all browsers, as making it work for just say only FireFox is really easy compared to making it work for all.

    And also, there is the whole table-less is faster (and less bw usage) because it takes the browsers extra time to render the tables, or something like that.
     
    chopsticks, Feb 26, 2007 IP
  5. Aragorn

    Aragorn Peon

    Messages:
    1,491
    Likes Received:
    72
    Best Answers:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #5
    Tableless CSS is Search engine friendly as the HTML code is less. I've designed 6 or 7 tableless designs. Most of my designs have a left side navigation menu. So in my opinion its best to use one table and for the rest use div and pure css.
     
    Aragorn, Feb 26, 2007 IP
  6. billabong7329

    billabong7329 Peon

    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    4
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #6
    Tableless layouts aren't that hard to make once you get familiar with CSS. A lot of attributes needed to make tables look right in various browsers winds up making your html code invalid, which can lead to more problems.

    Tables should be used for content purposes, not to make the layout.
     
    billabong7329, Feb 26, 2007 IP
  7. write-stuff

    write-stuff Guest

    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    2
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #7
    Isn't one of the main benefits of doing it CSS that you're more likely to keep your font sizing constant, in spite of users changing it in their browsers?

    And regarding IE and FF, absolutely. I always check my pages out carefully in both.
     
    write-stuff, Feb 26, 2007 IP
  8. ichigo

    ichigo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,915
    Likes Received:
    116
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    135
    #8
    it loads fast and the code looks cleaner. the design usually looks clean aswell.
     
    ichigo, Feb 26, 2007 IP
  9. billabong7329

    billabong7329 Peon

    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    4
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #9

    CSS has way more benefits than that. For one, it sets a style throughout your entire website which can easily be edited from one page. So if you have a 100 page site and you want to change the color of a link on EVERY page, you can do that in one line of code with css.

    Layouts also become a completely different world when you start using CSS. There are way more options when using divs and different positioning techniques.

    There are also rollover effects that can be achieved using css.

    There is just so much more you can do with css than using stuff like <font> and what not through out your html.
     
    billabong7329, Feb 26, 2007 IP
  10. Katy

    Katy Moderator Staff

    Messages:
    3,490
    Likes Received:
    513
    Best Answers:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    355
    #10
    I remember one of my friends said: "Making a table layout is like making a website in Excel" :D

    Tables were originally created to present tabular data and they were not meant to create layouts.
     
    Katy, Feb 27, 2007 IP
  11. WhatiFind

    WhatiFind offline

    Messages:
    1,789
    Likes Received:
    257
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    180
    #11
    Pro: loading time, flexible design, time saver, more beautiful, cross browser reference, easier and so much more.. CSS Is the bomb!

    Check this http://www.csszengarden.com/ for the ultimate examples.
     
    WhatiFind, Feb 27, 2007 IP
  12. chopsticks

    chopsticks Active Member

    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    20
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    60
    #12
    That is so true !

    If only every saw it that way. I always hated seeing the sites with tables nested basically millions of times, or tables used for a little box that'll appear in the center of the page, whilst a little bit of css and a div could do it all...
     
    chopsticks, Feb 27, 2007 IP
  13. Katy

    Katy Moderator Staff

    Messages:
    3,490
    Likes Received:
    513
    Best Answers:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    355
    #13
    Yeah, many people think that the only way to center a layout is making it in tables. Though, you can simply create a css container. :cool:

    My own layout on my site is a table layout and I think I made a big mistake that I made it that way, but school is hard, I have a lot of homework, so I just don't have time to recode it...
     
    Katy, Feb 27, 2007 IP
  14. pprabhu

    pprabhu Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    1
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    #14
    CSS simply divides presentation and data, hence we see a cleaner source code.

    I struggled a lot with CSS initially. But once I got the hang of it, I found it tough doing the tables now. CSS simply rocks. I wonder what is installed in CSS3. Wish they bring in logical selectors.. if, else and loops.
     
    pprabhu, Feb 27, 2007 IP
  15. Mooseman

    Mooseman Peon

    Messages:
    453
    Likes Received:
    7
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #15
    I have recently started using divs instead of tables and I can't rly say it's a timesaver. But believe me, it's way more fun to code with divs and css then tables.
    Once you get the hang of CSS (which isn't too hard) you'll notice.
     
    Mooseman, Feb 27, 2007 IP
  16. jgjg

    jgjg Peon

    Messages:
    595
    Likes Received:
    14
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #16
    hmmm interesting.

    I love css for styling text and tables and backgrounds but actually don't make the blocks out of it. anyone know of great resources on it?

    also, if it works in FF and IE 5+ then do you assume it is good to go?

    thanks
     
    jgjg, Feb 27, 2007 IP
  17. humanedited

    humanedited Peon

    Messages:
    747
    Likes Received:
    21
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #17
    I like CSS because 1. it cuts out a lot of html that you don't need when doing a table layout and 2. you can make some really cool dropdowns/flyouts using lists rather than javascript (which is a huge benefit in itself)
     
    humanedited, Feb 27, 2007 IP
  18. jgjg

    jgjg Peon

    Messages:
    595
    Likes Received:
    14
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #18
    do you have any infor on dropdowns/flyouts with css?
     
    jgjg, Feb 28, 2007 IP
  19. chopsticks

    chopsticks Active Member

    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    20
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    60
    #19
    chopsticks, Feb 28, 2007 IP
    jgjg likes this.
  20. rochow

    rochow Notable Member

    Messages:
    3,991
    Likes Received:
    245
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    240
    #20
    Hell yes.

    So much less code!
     
    rochow, Feb 28, 2007 IP