What would you do in this situation?

I would steal a couple muffins and get a free refill to go

 

I didn't say there was anything wrong with people owning guns. I thought it was funny YOU owned guns. You are always talking about how much value you place on every single life. Actually know that I look at it, you place a value on the lives of criminals and countries we're at war with yet no value on the average American citizen's life.

The reason why I thought it was funny YOU would have a gun is because you seem like a complete pansy and the worst candidate for a gun. I just picture the moment someone starts to make fun of you that you'd either shoot them or panic and shot yourself.

I guess you never said the US (which I don’t know why you refer to as “we” because you hate the country so much) shouldn’t have a military. You probably just think they should be armed with cinnamon and spice and everything nice instead of actual firearms.

 

yo-yo wrote:

Wonder why o wait, i remember because of the constitution of course

 

It's a cultural phenomena, and perhaps even a biological phenomena.

Americans are Americans because they were so pissed off that they gave up everything they had and risked their lives to relocate to a new continent filled with danger and opportunity.

Those are not normal people. It's not surprising that their offspring are not normal either.

This has its good points and its bad points. Americans work very hard. Americans are extremely generous. Americans tend to be straightforward and honest. Americans also tend to be pretty short-tempered and quite often have very little respect for law and order.

It's who were are. We're rugged individualists. We don't like people telling us what to do. We don't like big government. We don't even put up with other Americans telling us what to do. Occassionally we kill people who screw with us.

On the other end of the scale you have the Japanese. They have a very low murder rate and a very high suicide rate. When anything goes wrong, a Japanese person kills themself. The American has a much more intense sense of self-preservation -- when something goes wrong, he kills the person causing him grief!

The Japanese became this way through thousands of years of cultural and perhaps even biological conditioning. Japanese who did not conform were executed, which made it difficult for them to pass on their genes.

No amount of ridiculous legislation is going to turn Americans into Japanese. Well, not without killing off 90% of the population.

 

A very good reason to deny general public from owning firearms for no apparent reason as profession or shooting sports.

 

You've really missed the point entirely.

 

This may make me sound like a coward, but I don't care. I will run and hope they don't give chase. Why?

1. They are so drunk they probably won't be able to catch me.
2. If they look over and see my dialing 911 they may come over to the table and stab me to death.
3. If I try to be a hero I will definitely get beat up and stabbed(I'm a small guy)
4. By sitting and remain quiet, they may still see me and decide to start trouble.
5. I would be outnumbered 3 to 1. Bad odds.

Yeah, running would be the wise choice.

 

There is no point to give ordinary citizens the right to bare arms in public

 

tesla:

Perhaps it is most wise, in an individual context.

How does your plan rate when evaluated using Immanuel Kant's categorical imperative?

I will use Kant's first form of the categorical imperative, as it most closely matches this situation.

tesla, what would become of society if everyone ran away from danger instead of doing what is right, standing up to danger, and thereby keeping dangerous lawbreakers in check?

 

Edz do you not understand history? I might have stated in my earlier post that I would get up and run but that is if I DON'T have a gun. If I had a gun it would be a different story.

The second amendment in the US exists for a reason. The thing you gun grabbing people don't understand is someone is going to have a gun. I can be either you are the serial killer breaking into your house raping your daughter or wife, and by the time the cops get there, its too late.

Besides, I don't know about you but, I don't trust law enforcement and the military anymore than I trust criminals because many of them(not all) are bad themselves.

Will you are right. Our society wouldn't do to well if everyone ran. I like your illustration using Immanuel Kant. Most people have never heard of him. I didn't think of it that way. I should act as if my actions will create a universal law. Very interesting.

 

1. That is not a rational argument.

2. No one "gives" humans that right. Self-defense is a natural human right. That right is never given, it is only sometimes taken away by brutal and despotic governments.

 

It's sad but true.

Government beauracracy does not tend to bring out the best in human beings.

Hell, the main reason for the Second Amendment was to protect the citizens from the government.

Self-defense was really an afterthought.

 

@Tesla i don't know why you are refering to me because my previous statement was evidently addressed to Will.

Actually i think your post made very good sense especially if you are not a very strong or combat personality type of person...something that Will doesn't want to see.

 

Will Spencer wrote:

1. And yours is?

2.

So the Netherlands is in your view a brutal and despotic goverment?

 

I don't think Will is trying to say that the Netherlands has a despotic government. I believe what he is trying to say is historically, governments around the world have hurt their people.

Usually one of the first things governments do is disarm their people. Hitler did it if I'm correct, and African slaves brought here to the Americas were also not allowed to own guns for quite some time. Slaves who lived in Rome were also barred from owning swords.

It is a dangerous society when only the government owns guns because the government is run by humans, and humans tend to be corrupt, especially when they have power.

 

Let's see....

What would happen in the Netherlands if I exercised my natural right to carry a firearm for self-defense?

I would be forcibly arrested and imprisoned.

I would be held against my will in a small cell for many years -- just for exercising the natural rights I was born with!

That easily qualifies as brutal and despotic in my book.

 

Good point. They throw you in jail over there for owning a gun? Amazing. I'm glad I was born here in the US.

You know statistics show that crime is actually very low in areas were the population is armed. What robber is going to break into your house when he knows their is a 99% chance you own a gun?

Will what do you think about that law passed in San Francisco that bans all handguns in the city?

 

Yes, goverments have hurt their people and are still doing so but the whole reason why a mojority of U.S. like Will are pro gun ownership for everyone is the fact that because of the constitution allowes people to own guns everyone thinks he should need a gun because the guy/girl next to them owns a gun as well...therefor more guns and more chances for violence/accidents from this guns.

This is a thing that started some time ago and can at this point hardly be reversed because of the fear of the guns massively present in the U.S.
But therefor it doesn't entirely justify it.


I just think it's stupid it could go on for so long.

Will wrote

1. It´s not your natural right

2. You would not be forcibly arrested and thrown in a cell for many years

 

Excellent points Tesla.

You're almost quoting Lord Acton, who said:

You also touched on a bit of Aristotle, who wrote in Politics:

Three more quotes to back up your thinking:

In 1606, Jean Bodin wrote in in Six Books of a Commonweale:

In 1749, Andrew Fletcher wrote in A Discourse of Government with Relation to Militias in Political Works:

Even Machiavelli, the father of political science, agrees:

Lots of good thinking has been done over the centuries on the dangers of government -- long before the United States was founded.



Now let's see what the wise men of old have to say about Edz' point #1.

Cicero clearly disagreed with Edz wisdom when he stated:

Even Thomas Hobbes, that icon of big government, wrote in The Leviathan:

But hey, who are they to disagree with Ed's masterfully constructed argument?




For more excellent quotes on this topic, visit Quotes on Firearms.

 

Wow. You're definitely well read. Those are all excellent sources of reference.