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What would you do in this situation?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Discreet, Dec 15, 2005.

  1. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #241
    That, not defense against criminals, is the primary reason for gun ownership.

    You see, every once in awhile, governments get uppity and need to be put in their place by force of arms.

    In addition, just having an armed populace tends to prevent governments from getting too uppity too often.

    America is in a unique situation in this regard. In Political Science there is a concept called a "rogue state". When a state becomes a rogue state, it is a danger to its citizens and its neighbors and it must be contained and/or overthrown. America is the policeman of the world. We're there to protect the entire planet from rogue states.

    So... theoretically... what would happen if the U.S. became a rogue state? Who would take action? Canada? Right. Whatever.
    SEMrush
    The armed American populace is the only thing keeping the U.S. government in check.

    Here are a few more quotes to help defend against the intellectual callowness of the historically uninformed:

     
    Will.Spencer, Dec 21, 2005 IP
    SEMrush
  2. SEbasic

    SEbasic Peon

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    #242
    If it hasn't already happened.

    *ducks*
     
    SEbasic, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  3. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #243
    Nyuk nyuk nyuk! :D
     
    Will.Spencer, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  4. stuw

    stuw Peon

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    #244
    That is really very scary - I don't think anyone asked you to do that?

    Get rid of the idiot, and I may feel slightly better
     
    stuw, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  5. Hodgedup

    Hodgedup Peon

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    #245
    I always carry ninja stars.

    What did I win?
     
    Hodgedup, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  6. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #246
    If America didn't accept that role, New Zealand would be the smallest fucking outpost of the Japanese Empire.
     
    Will.Spencer, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  7. Crazy_Zap

    Crazy_Zap Well-Known Member

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    #247
    It's scary how close you are to the truth. They've already lost their constitution but most of them haven't realized it yet. The patriot act did quite a number on their freedoms. :eek:
     
    Crazy_Zap, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  8. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

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    #248
    It's not so much that people don't realise it, it's because it fits people ideas/agendas they don't care when even the slightest or most severe of rights are stripped away and are able to gloss over it no matter the actual facts.


    Some only hold certain parts of the constitution to heart, some don't hold any, and a few hold all of them......................
     
    GRIM, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  9. yo-yo

    yo-yo Well-Known Member

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    #249
    Yeh, I'd say at least all the ones who voted for Bush ;)
     
    yo-yo, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  10. Crazy_Zap

    Crazy_Zap Well-Known Member

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    #250
    Americans always say that but the truth is that the majority of countries around the world do a pretty good job of getting along and policing each other. Russia is not the big "bad ass" that the USA has made them out to be. Americans also tend to think of themselves as members of the most powerful country on the planet. They always seem to forget about China with 4 times the population and a much larger armed forces. Maybe China would not allow New Zealand to become the smallest outpost of Japan.

    I know this view won't be popular on a forum comprised mainly of Americans, but you Americans really need to hear this before it's too late. How long do you think the rest of the world is going to stand back while you involve yourselves in (on average) a war every 5-10 years? How many countries around the world do you think the rest of Earth's citizens are going to allow you to walk all over before we say "That's enough!"? How many of Bush's (or the next guy's) mistakes do you think will be overlooked? The USA is losing support from normal everyday citizens of the Earth each day and, in the end, it is the support from those very citizens that will keep the USA from falling into obscurity in the century to come or, even worse, falling victim to a terror even bigger than itself.
    Spare me the "We're the most powerful nation on Earth" speeches. First of all, it's not true. And secondly, that's not the way to make friends. Along with authority comes responsibility.
     
    Crazy_Zap, Dec 21, 2005 IP
    buffalo likes this.
  11. Crazy_Zap

    Crazy_Zap Well-Known Member

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    #251
    I sincerely hope that it is, one day, restored since it is the ideal that many nations aspire to. Let's just hope that it's not too late to change it when it really needs to be changed. Some might argue that day has passed.
     
    Crazy_Zap, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  12. stuw

    stuw Peon

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    #252
    I'll second that ccole1968.

    If we're going to mention WW2 then lets not forget that if it hadn't been for Americas policy of isolationalism, then they would have joined in much earlier, (and not for example sold old naval vessels to the Brits (when they were desperate) in return for strategic naval outpost), or when they got bombed by the japs on their home turf.

    America is not the world - There are many nations on this planet, and we are quite capable of policing ourselves thank you very much. Just because you want to belive that you have the right to police the world, doesn't mean the rest of the world wants you to police it - that's bullying.
     
    stuw, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  13. yo-yo

    yo-yo Well-Known Member

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    #253
    Tell that to Northern Africa, or all the citizens killed by the Chinese Government :rolleyes:
     
    yo-yo, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  14. Crazy_Zap

    Crazy_Zap Well-Known Member

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    #254
    Nobody is saying that the world is perfect. But, that does not give the USA the moral authority to invade Iraq and make it over in it's own image. The USA screamed bloody murder when Iraq did that to Kuwait. Fast forward 10 years and the US invades Iraq. WTF?!?!?!? Is it OK to invade a foreign nation or not?

    The sad part about the invasion of Iraq was that the world was lied to by Bush. Most of the world saw right through it immediately. Why do you think most of the same allies who joined the US in Afghanistan refused to follow Bush blindly into Iraq? Did we all go from Honourable to Disgraceful overnight? Or did we realize that Bush was doing something he shouldn't have been doing?
     
    Crazy_Zap, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  15. stuw

    stuw Peon

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    #255
    This notion of america being a world police was started in the Reagan administration, it's a relatively new concept.

    I'm proud to be living in a country that did not help invade iraq.
     
    stuw, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  16. stuw

    stuw Peon

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    #256
    And the US is planning to do what about those?
     
    stuw, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  17. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #257
    And then what?

    Are you going to pass a non-binding resolution against us? :rolleyes:

    Maybe hold a protest? A sit-in? A candlelight vigil? Maybe a hippie rock concert? Oh no... The absolute terror of it all. :eek:
     
    Will.Spencer, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  18. stuw

    stuw Peon

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    #258
    well I know that the US has been p#ssed off at New Zealands nuclear free policy for many many years. No nuclear material within the nations boundaries thanks. That means were also 'weapon of mass destrcution free'

    In effect that means that we also don't want any nuclear powered or nuclear armed ships docking or in NZ waters.

    The US have declined to let the NZ govt know which of their ships have nuclear material on board (fair enough), so no US military ships are allowed down here. Now why that annoys the US I don't know - but every time a trade agreement comes up, up comes the nuclear issue.

    I guess economic pressure would be the only recourse we would all have. Don't buy american, don't go there on holiday, don't watch american tv / movies etc. Introduce the 2 tier tourist pricing scheme like they have in Sri Lanka and Vietnam (western tourists pay more). Buy an airbus, not a boeing. Don't buy american medication, cigarettes, guns, cars, designer lables etc etc

    And of course, don't let the ships dock, or the cia planes land ;)

    The australians once sent a brilliant message to the french by refusing to allow any french ships to be in port during bastille day
     
    stuw, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  19. Crazy_Zap

    Crazy_Zap Well-Known Member

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    #259
    No. We'll simply protest with our money. Americans selling goods and services to Americans will only take the USA so far. What many Americans fail to realize (because they can't see past their own military might) is that the USA NEEDS the rest of the world. The USA can NOT survive very long without our goods, services and money. It's that kind of attitude that will eventually leave you out in the cold. All empires fall eventually and the USA is no different.

    I, too, am very happy that we didn't follow you into Iraq. At first, I was disappointed in my government for not helping a "friend in need". However, it only took me a day or two to come to the realization that Bush was lying through his teeth. The decision to stay out of Bush's dirty little war became one of the few things (IMHO) our current government got right! Bush wasn't mistaken about weapons of mass destruction. (Revelations have come to light since that prove this) He was blatantly misleading the American public so that he could settle a personal score for his daddy and make a ton of cash for his buddies at the same time. What saddens me is that (at the time) most of Americans bought it, hook, line and sinker. I remember watching the Candian news channel reporter interviewing Americans in Buffalo on what they thought of our refusal to go into Iraq with them. Sadly, most Americans interviewed turned on Candians pretty quickly, but there was one American interviewed who read the situation (IMHO) correctly at the time. He said something like "If the Canadians are our closest allies and they won't come and help us in Iraq, maybe we need to be asking ourselves what we're doing there in the first place." Now, most Americans might come down hard on the lad as un-patriotic. But, I disagree. I think he was a patriot and he saw what most Americans couldn't. It wasn't just Canada that didn't go into Iraq with the USA. There were countless nations that were fighting side by side with Americans in Afghanistan that said "UH UH. Nope. Not this time." when it came to the question of Iraq. That has to tell you something. I, for one, really hope that disaster does not befall the USA in the 21st century, but I haven't a lot of hope for that particular outcome. Over the years, I have seen Americans become more and more arrogant because of their military power and this is turning people off around the globe. Right now, you may say "who cares?". That really only strengthens my argument. But one day, the USA will come to realize that they do indeed need the rest of us. We all need each other. Only then, can the USA be put back on the right track. I just hope it isn't too late for you all by that point because... On the whole, for the most part, you really do have a good thing going there with your democracy, history and what not. But enough with the bullying. The rest of us are getting pretty tired of it.
     
    Crazy_Zap, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  20. Crazy_Zap

    Crazy_Zap Well-Known Member

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    #260
    Me too. At first, I was pretty pissed about it. But when I saw that Bush was just jonesing for a fight at any cost, I was pretty proud of my country for staying out of it. It wasn't about terror or WMD. It was about money and a Texan looking to prove how tough he was.
     
    Crazy_Zap, Dec 21, 2005 IP