1. Advertising
    y u no do it?

    Advertising (learn more)

    Advertise virtually anything here, with CPM banner ads, CPM email ads and CPC contextual links. You can target relevant areas of the site and show ads based on geographical location of the user if you wish.

    Starts at just $1 per CPM or $0.10 per CPC.
  2. Better Analytics for WordPress Get It Free

What to do when there is No Editor

Discussion in 'ODP / DMOZ' started by Icebreaker74, Jan 28, 2009.

  1. joeventura

    joeventura Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    384
    Likes Received:
    20
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    100
    #21

    Jim,
    To be honest, thought I could make a difference, I am the kind of person that if I don't like what is going on I will make an effort to improve the situation, but honestly I am so disillusioned by the entire process that I don't see a scenario where it would be practical for me to keep banging my head against the wall. I know I could help, I know I could make a difference, I know I have submitted an honest, well done, fully disclosed application (after 5 or so that I made a half a$$ed attempt at) and I am not a dope, I qualify for Mensa, have a well above average I.Q. and if I can't get through the gauntlet then something is very wrong and I refuse to believe it is me at this point.
     
    joeventura, Mar 3, 2009 IP
  2. joeventura

    joeventura Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    384
    Likes Received:
    20
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    100
    #22

    Don't know who you are, and more important don't have a clue what you are saying, so just so you are aware,

    No one here can understand what you are saying, it's clear you are unhappy, many of us are unhappy with DMOZ/ODP but with you there is clearly a MASSIVE language barrier so you can keep posting these messages but no one can understand you, so like me they will like click the IGNORE THIS USER button.
     
    joeventura, Mar 3, 2009 IP
  3. gworld

    gworld Notable Member

    Messages:
    11,333
    Likes Received:
    614
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    260
    #23
    How can you say that you have above average I.Q when you failed to understand what I told you awhile back? The key to becoming editor in DMOZ is to prove that you are stupid and won't rock the boat. Now try an application based on this simple principal and you WILL BE ACCEPTED. ;):)
     
    gworld, Mar 3, 2009 IP
  4. joeventura

    joeventura Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    384
    Likes Received:
    20
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    100
    #24

    Yes thanks I will pass on that advise.
     
    joeventura, Mar 3, 2009 IP
  5. Qryztufre

    Qryztufre Prominent Member

    Messages:
    6,074
    Likes Received:
    491
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    300
    #25
    As for changing things internally, best of luck! You'll be labeled as a Digital Point troll, even if you are honest and sincere about what you are posting about.

    I pointed out that editors do not need an official warning and once kicked out have no means of an appeal and was more or less told to "shut up" by an admin of the internal forums and was called a troll by numerous people. The odd thing is, how can I be a troll when I was honestly concerned about the warning and removal processes, and backed every statement up with internal and external examples (including the actual ODP guidelines!) of how things truly are.

    So as for changing things from the inside, not gunna happen, not unless you get employed by AOL.
     
    Qryztufre, Mar 3, 2009 IP
  6. Anonymously

    Anonymously Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,924
    Likes Received:
    69
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    #26
    Many times, of course, ones attitude affects how one is heard. I have never had any problems at raising issues and believe me, I have had some some dust ups. But a newbie who is not willing to listen is often not listened to.:D

    Don't give up joeventura!
     
    Anonymously, Mar 3, 2009 IP
  7. joeventura

    joeventura Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    384
    Likes Received:
    20
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    100
    #27


    Didnt want to imply that I wanted to change the world, just wanted to get some sites approved and help with the back log. I know the pool is big but it just keeps getting bigger.
     
    joeventura, Mar 3, 2009 IP
  8. joeventura

    joeventura Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    384
    Likes Received:
    20
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    100
    #28
    Thanks for the encouragement but there is not much I can do at this point, gave it my best shot.

    I mean what is the alternative, reapply with the same application with a few words changed here or there hoping that you get someone to review it who is feeling generous that day?

    The first couple of apps I got reviewers comments, at least I could get an idea of what I needed to work on, the last one I got was that I did not disclose all sites that I had affiliations with, so I sent a list of like 92 sites from up to 3 jobs ago and then I get the following as a response:

    * Incomplete application. Insufficient information has been provided in some
    fields including reason, affiliation and/or Sample URLs.
    * Improper spelling and grammar.
    * Sample URLs are inappropriate for the category which one has applied to
    edit. They may be too broad, too narrow, completely out of scope, poor
    quality, or in a language inappropriate for the category. All non-English
    sites are listed in the World category. Applications for World categories
    that include sites only in English will be denied. Likewise, applications
    for World categories that include sample URLs in languages other than the one
    appropriate for the applied category will be denied.
    * Not properly disclosing affiliations with websites that are, or have the
    potential of being, listed in the category.
    * Titles and descriptions of sample URLs (and other information provided)
    were subjective and promotional rather than unbiased and objective. ODP
    editors do not rank or write website reviews. ODP editors provide objective
    and unbiased descriptions of websites and their content.
    * Self-Promotion. Application which leads us to believe that the candidate is
    interested primarily in promoting his/her own sites or those with which the
    applicant is affiliated. The ODP is not a marketing tool, and should not be
    used to circumvent the site submission process. If this is an applicant's
    motivation for joining, then we ask him/her not to apply. Editors found to be
    inappropriately promoting their own site will be promptly removed.





    So how do I make a further attempt? Guess which one refers to me?

    I mean how lazy do you have to be to not give any clue as to what was deficient?

    There is an asterisk at the start of each line, while copying and pasting your form letter response, put an extra asterisk on the line that applies to me so I can at least narrow it down to one of the six reasons.

    I mean am I off base here?
     
    joeventura, Mar 3, 2009 IP
  9. robjones

    robjones Notable Member

    Messages:
    4,256
    Likes Received:
    405
    Best Answers:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    240
    #29
    Not a bad idea IMO. Then again my opinion carries no more weight than yours....
     
    robjones, Mar 3, 2009 IP
  10. jimnoble

    jimnoble Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,000
    Likes Received:
    123
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    105
    #30
    The signal/noise ratio seems to have improved somewhat so I'm back :).

    It might have been 2 of them or more. We hope that you'll be able use your diagnostic skills to critically evaluate your next application against those common issues before sending it

    It's a non-editable form letter so we can't - and the likelihood that AOL will devote resources to implementing such a suggestion is low. Evaluators can already add reviewer notes if the problems aren't covered by the standard list. If there aren't any, it's pretty safe to assume that your application's problems are included in it.
     
    jimnoble, Mar 3, 2009 IP
  11. joeventura

    joeventura Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    384
    Likes Received:
    20
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    100
    #31

    Well it may have been 2 of them or it may have been all of them, implementing any suggestion is low so I am sort of between a rock and a hard place.

    My application was extensive especially the site affiliation list, it was not rejected in the first 48 hours so someone spent a few minutes on it.

    Sorry Jim there really is no excuse to not take the 20 seconds it would have taken to type a sentence to offer some guidance.
     
    joeventura, Mar 4, 2009 IP
  12. makrhod

    makrhod Peon

    Messages:
    579
    Likes Received:
    29
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #32
    Except for the fact that the person reviewing it is a volunteer, of course, and therefore free to review/not review, decide/not decide, comment/not comment etc.

    As you have apparently had previous replies, including some with specific guidance, you surely now have a very good idea of where problems lie.
    Many editors are accepted every day, some of them after several unsuccessful applications, so if you are willing to accept the general and specific advice you have been given, and provided you have not been asked not to re-apply, you are welcome to try again. :)
     
    makrhod, Mar 4, 2009 IP
  13. Qryztufre

    Qryztufre Prominent Member

    Messages:
    6,074
    Likes Received:
    491
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    300
    #33
    Good point! I think from here on out, I'll volunteer for the Red Cross. Of course I'll not be leaving my house, as I am a volunteer and can opt to not actually do anything other then say I volunteer. In fact, I think I'll also donate to the United Way... and as it's my choice in how much I'll be giving, I'll be keeping all my money for myself.
     
    Qryztufre, Mar 4, 2009 IP
  14. joeventura

    joeventura Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    384
    Likes Received:
    20
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    100
    #34

    Yes if you volunteer and can't add value by providing a little feedback when you review an application, then don't bother.

    I am still waiting for the day when Mark or Jim reply back with anything that does not resemble a 100% defense of everything ODP does as being flawless in form and execution.


    Don't think I have ever heard either one of them say "Hey you know I agree there is probably a better way we could have handled that"

    Don't think I will hold my breath waiting for that day either.
     
    joeventura, Mar 4, 2009 IP
  15. jimnoble

    jimnoble Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,000
    Likes Received:
    123
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    105
    #35
    I don't think I've ever claimed that ODP is perfect and I don't plan to do so any time soon.

    Mainly, what I try to do here is to explain how things work to people who appear to lack that knowledge.

    That includes explaining why implementing externally suggested changes to the modus operandi are out of editors' control. I don't think I've commented on whether or not I think your ideas are good ones.
     
    jimnoble, Mar 4, 2009 IP
  16. Anonymously

    Anonymously Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,924
    Likes Received:
    69
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    #36
    I do not have access to many things in ODP because I am not a meta editor, but I have been around for almost 10 years and a few thousand edit count, but we do know a lot about what we are doing, we see newbie editors, and I did it, spouting off about this and that and getting hot under the collar, and sometimes new eyes see what we can't but mostly we have seen it and tried it or rejected it. Sometimes that is just due to not being able to see the whole picture sometimes it will be a knowit all who knows nothing. When I was made an editall it gave me access to a new forum and access to things I never dreamed about some of the issues, the solutions and some real problems.

    Two comments, the first that we are often leaned on to tell people if they have been rejected for a site listing and the heat generated about our responses to editor applications tells me we are right not to do it.

    Also imagine how long it takes to do a review. It's not a five minute job and some people complain at how long they wait for a reply! But that would be much worse if the editor had also to pinpoint all the reasons. Also don't forget that multiple responses draw the least heat. So if the meta said, you have not been honest about affiliations, ONLY, that would have a worse effect than multiple issues.

    Is that just a defence, with editor applications I don't believe so. It is a reasoned arguement not always knowing the whole of the facts, but recognising that in the past I have often wished I had been a little more trusting rather than shooting off my mouth without knowing the whole picture.

    Having said all that, have you really worked through all those points, including that the sites are good sites, checked for redirects etc, checked for unique content, that they fit the category and there is not a cat they will fit better and had a look at how you worded the reason for wanting to be an editor.

    Have another look, we do need editors who will question, but will also listen and I am sure that you were not rejected on a whim. There is reason that you have missed in your review of it.

    Just a guess at some of the things involved
     
    Anonymously, Mar 4, 2009 IP
  17. joeventura

    joeventura Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    384
    Likes Received:
    20
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    100
    #37
    I don't really have a problem with anything you had to say,

    My only question is on the above and that question is "Why should I have to guess?"

    I am trying to think of an example of any other situation where you would volunteer to do something and be rejected without an explanation and I just can't think of one.

    And for those of you who will come back with "but you were given a reason" in blind defense of ODP the form letter with the six reasons that I received is probably a summary of every possible reason you could be rejected so saying you were rejected for one of every possible reasons you could be rejected, in my mind is as good as no reason at all.

    If you applied for a loan and were given a list of 17 reasons that you were rejected but they didn't say which one you would be annoyed too.
    And yes I know a loan is not the same as volunteering for ODP

    Its human nature to want to know where you fell short.

    "You failed the test"

    "WHY?"

    "One of these 37 reasons"

    Very helpful!
     
    joeventura, Mar 4, 2009 IP
  18. makrhod

    makrhod Peon

    Messages:
    579
    Likes Received:
    29
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #38
    If you think I am an apologist for the way the ODP is managed, you are wayyyyy off the mark (which is not my name or gender, BTW ;) ).
    However, like jimnoble, I am currently happy to spend some of my leisure time trying to help people understand what DMOZ is about, and how they can use it and contribute to it. But as he says, there is absolutely no point railing against us for matters beyond our control.
    You don't have to guess.
    You say you have received feedback with each unsuccessful application, and you have been given plenty of advice in this forum (most recently by Anonymously) about where you might need to address problems in your application.
    If you are interested in contributing effectively to the directory, then you will consider those points, and apply them to another application.
    It's simple, and many thousands of editors have followed exactly the same process. :)
     
    makrhod, Mar 4, 2009 IP
  19. joeventura

    joeventura Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    384
    Likes Received:
    20
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    100
    #39

    Its just math Mark.

    If there are six potential things you can do wrong in an application and you do 3 of them and you are told that you have potentially done 6 of them each time you apply, how many times do you have to apply to get it right?

    I have just as much chance of fixing things that are not broken as I do of fixing things that are.

    When an editor does not provide reviewers comments (specifics) what he or she is saying is "I am happy to create additional applications to be reviewed that may or may not be any closer to the mark than the last one thus creating more and more work for the volunteers"

    Way to go! :rolleyes:
     
    joeventura, Mar 4, 2009 IP
  20. makrhod

    makrhod Peon

    Messages:
    579
    Likes Received:
    29
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #40
    Of course many people manage to submit acceptable applications without any feedback at all, simply by reading the form carefully and doing a little research in the public guidelines. You have had a lot more assistance than that, so it seems a little churlish to complain that we are not helping you enough.
     
    makrhod, Mar 4, 2009 IP