What should a writer offer?

Discussion in 'Copywriting' started by $earner, Jul 26, 2008.

  1. #1
    Hi guys,

    I hope this is the right place to post, I read the sticky, but I'm still unsure as to where this thread should be posted. I thought about posting in the Buy & Sell section, but I'm not exactly trying to hire someone.

    Since the majority of people who come to this section are writers, I think you could help me with this.

    Well, I'm thinking about hiring someone to write articles for me. This would be the first time I do that, so I'd like to hear recommendations.

    Also, I have two questions:

    Is it possible to determine if the articles I pay for are copied or slightly modified? Is there any online tool to find out?

    Some writers claim that they can write about any subject. Do you think it's possible for them to create quality articles about any subject?

    Thanks in advance.
     
    $earner, Jul 26, 2008 IP
  2. TMG Enterprises

    TMG Enterprises Well-Known Member

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    #2
    First question, try Copyscape (http://www.copyscape.com/) or ArticleChecker (http://www.articlechecker.com/). Both are very good and won't cost you anything.

    Second question, most people probably not but a few possibly. I can write about almost any subject but there are a few that I know that I wouldn't be able to produce high quality articles (sports, technical writing and website graphic creation come to mind...lol). A lot of it will depend on what kind of article you wanted, as well. I could do a great article on the history of football but would not be able to write a decent article on how to play football - do you see what I mean?

    Good luck to you,
    Tina G
     
    TMG Enterprises, Jul 26, 2008 IP
  3. kiteguy123

    kiteguy123 Guest

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    #3
    The fact of the matter is that anyone can write on any topic, providing they research. I could write about the effect of Lynx deodorant on cows if I researched it enough, and no, I don't currently know anything about it ;)...
    And, as stated above, Copyscape is usually the program used..
     
    kiteguy123, Jul 27, 2008 IP
  4. marketjunction

    marketjunction Well-Known Member

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    #4
    Can a writer write on anything? Given enough time, yes. For instance, I could write on [insert topic here] if I'm given enough time to research and learn (could be days, weeks, months or years depending on the topic).

    However, most writers that say that are usually writing low-level articles without much detail. If this is what you need, then it works. However, if you need a lot of detail, it's best to find a writer who specializes in the area.

    "Quality" is such a garbage word. My version of quality is evidently miles above what I've seen from others who use the same word to describe their work.

    Your best best is to clearly know what you expect as the busy. For instance, if you want NY Times quality, show the writer an example or two, so he/she knows exactly what type of "quality" you expect.

    And always ask to see samples. Use your own eyes.

    As for copying, at the lower levels it happens a lot. Some don't know they are infringing on other people's work, because they aren't properly trained and don't know any better. Others do it on purpose.
     
    marketjunction, Jul 27, 2008 IP
  5. candyman333

    candyman333 Peon

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    #5
    Copyscape is a must have if you are planning on hiring a writer, just to make sure you are paying for unique content.

    Also, I think it is important to get a writer who actually knows about the topic. You can't really write about something without knowing the basics about it. Well, you can't write something good, atleast that is my opinion.
     
    candyman333, Jul 27, 2008 IP
  6. damyantig

    damyantig Peon

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    #6
    You need to define your requirements first. If you are looking for key-word rich SEO fodder, then yes, any writer can do the job for you, because you are not looking for in-depth content.

    If you are looking for articles that could be published in magazines however, or for pillar articles for your blog or website, you need to find someone who specializes in the area.

    If you can define your topics and the writer concerned can produce samples that match your requirements, that means you may have found your candidate.

    If these are previously published pieces, all the better. This is because you can see where they were published, and form an idea of the writer's credibility.

    Run the final work through copyscape to check for uniqueness.
     
    damyantig, Jul 27, 2008 IP
  7. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #7
    Copyscape means zip. You need to go beyond that if you want to be safe in the content you're buying. Re-writing something may pass Copyscape just fine, but it can still be illegal, and you can still be sued for infringement. (You can't publish a derivative work without permission of the copyright holder, and that's what re-writing is.) Hire professionals to decrease chances of copied work. Also hire people in your own country, or at least from another country where contracts can be enforced. Otherwise if they provide you with illegal content, you may be the only one that can be held liable.
     
    jhmattern, Jul 28, 2008 IP
  8. article marketer

    article marketer Peon

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    #8
    Hi. Writers can certainly write about any subject if they research. However, a writer will most likely only invest time in research according to how much he or she is getting paid for the article. Naturally, the better the pay, the more time that the writer is willing to invest.

    If you are looking for a writer to write for low pay and still want a quality article, get one that at least is familiar with the subject. That way, you will save yourself from a headache because of poorly written articles.

    The best articles come with good pay. People who are familiar with the subject can write them quicker and provide you with more accurate information. Also, they know the value of their experience and writing capabilities. Most truly good writers will not come cheap. It is possible to find a good writer for low pay, but you will also provide him or her with a greater incentive to write more articles for you if you pay better.
     
    article marketer, Jul 28, 2008 IP
  9. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #9
    Keep in mind though that those writers who are specialists generally charge more for that expertise. Higher pay generally comes with specialization; not with more research time. Writers who are smart about their business know how to earn more while working less (as does anyone successfully managing a service-oriented career). So if you want specialists, be prepared to pay for it. And if generalist writers don't like all of the research time, then it's time for them to start specializing.
     
    jhmattern, Jul 28, 2008 IP
  10. $earner

    $earner Well-Known Member

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    #10
    Thanks everyone, this thread was very insightful.

    That sounds scary!

    Is there any method you could suggest me to find articles that bypass Copyscape?
     
    $earner, Jul 29, 2008 IP
  11. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #11
    No search feature is going to let you know if something is just illegally rewritten / re-worded. That's why you should make sure you're only working with writers in your own country or others with similar laws where, should a problem arise, they can be held accountable. Make sure there are things in writing to the effect of not having rewritten work, original content, etc. - even if it's just in an email exchange where they've agreed to the terms. It wasn't meant to "scare" you, but the truth is that while many folks get away with it, all it takes is your writer ripping off the wrong publisher, and you can be held accountable. Even if they don't sue you, if they can show it's copyright infringement, they can have your host remove the content, have you banned from ad programs, etc. (and it does happen - I've had a few sites completely shut down, had several Adsense accounts banned, and specific articles removed and de-indexed on other sites when I found folks using my content without permission). Just be careful, and only hire reputable writers - I suggest hiring based on personal recommendations from people you trust rather than just posting ads and such, assuming you know other webmasters that have hired writers for similar projects.
     
    jhmattern, Jul 29, 2008 IP
  12. @phang

    @phang Active Member

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    #12
    As Jenn states, copyscape is honestly not going to do much at all. Good for deterring people who don't know what they're doing maybe, but people experienced in copying other peoples work will be able to work around it.

    Hire writers from recommendations from people you know, or from people who have a good reputation on the forums, who you believe you can trust to give you good advice on writers.
     
    @phang, Jul 29, 2008 IP
  13. ashvaj

    ashvaj Active Member

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    #13
    The subject under discussion here might be looking very general apparantly but as a matter of fact it is purely legal in nature.Generalistic interpretations will only lead to more confusions and deriving conclusion on that basis would be even more dangerous.

    Let me be more specific.Almost everyone who is participating in this discussion seems to be agreed on- "Re-writing and/or re-wording is illegal". "Jenn " is also verifying this statement.Unfortunately no body bothered to see how excatly the 'Copyrights Law' ( Specifically the US law) defines this. In my opinion (with reference to the copyrights law in my country)simply by saying that re-writing or re-wording is illegal would only create a confusion and writers who do not have sound legal understanding will face problems unnecessarily.

    Let us understand it with an example. Billions of people around the world read news everyday.There is one source of any news.It emmanates and then spreads like fire.It happens simply because of millions of journalists, media persons,writers,bloggers,webmasters,and many more.But the news remains the same.What everyone involved in this process does is simply re-writing, re-framing,re-wording,re-speaking the same original news.

    Let me tell you that news items attract maximum attention on internet also(A recent news item says this with reference of search engine results).In this sense, such a big phenomenon is all illegal?I am not sure about the US law in particular but according to the law in my country it defines copying, stealing,and cheating in a different way .My legal commonsense says that the law in US also cannot be very much different on this issue baring minor contextual differences.The law in US may be more advance and compulsive as the internet penetration rate is maximum there and lawmaking is always an evolutionary process.Majority of the countries could be a little lagging behind in this aspect.

    I strongly advice everyone of the writers and webmasters that instead of discussing such lagal aspects with all generalists they must refer to the legal text first. It may be even better to have a professional legal advice as well (I second the "Specialist Writing Drive" of "Jenn Mattern).

    Preparing a contract and managing it is a big task in itself.It is all legal by nature and one should be very careful while drafting a contract.I have observed people landing in troubles just because they did not take proper care in the begining itself.( I have been managing hundreds of national and international contracts of various nature in my professional life and therefore you may rely on my advice).

    I would also request "Jenn" to elaborate the copyright law provisions (US) in the larger interest of the writers(She may pull up a seperate fresh thread as well).Since she is handling all such operations in a very professional way and therefore is the best person to help us out.
    Also could someone find the bare text of US copyrights law and let us have a link to download.
     
    ashvaj, Aug 9, 2008 IP
  14. Balooka

    Balooka Peon

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    #14
    Copyscape is pretty much a gimmick, the best way to copyright protect your work is to send a copy of your original work to an attourney if your that bothered about protecting it. As for writing on any subject, I do, its not as easy as some make out though. For a fluency of writing to be created which is essential for a good read you need to know a certain amount about your subject matter.
     
    Balooka, Aug 10, 2008 IP
  15. jdonaldson

    jdonaldson Peon

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    #15
    Couldn't agree with you more. But here's another thought, or two...it is quite in order to use other people's material (material in the public domain) provided you use just enough to illustrate the point you are making AND attribute the source.

    e.g.

    Blue widgets are on the increase!

    In fact, there is an "epidemic", according to the New York Times.

    An article claimed on Monday, "We have proof that this is the case...."

    You get the drift! Include another source, or two and you have a completely original article that Copyscape would certainly brand as plagiarism. Yet it's not!
     
    jdonaldson, Aug 10, 2008 IP
  16. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #16
    Ashvaj

    News is a unique animal in copyright law issues. You need to keep several things in mind:

    1. If the news is coming from a press release, you can use it to craft your own story, or publish it as-is - that's their purpose, and the copyright holder grants permission for you to do that when they distribute it (that's why it wouldn't be illegal).

    2. However, if you saw an article written by an AP journalist, and you simply re-worded it (not adding any of your own commentary, additional background, other source materials, or own perspective for example), you would be rewriting the copyright-protected work of someone else, and therefore it would be illegal.

    3. Facts themselves cannot be copyrighted. How they're presented can be. The legal issues come about when you're talking about copyrighted work; not things that aren't protected. So again, for example, let's say we're talking about a news article on the Olympics' Opening Ceremonies. Who's involved, when it was scheduled, what would be happening - those facts by themselves aren't copyrighted, and can be used by anyone wanting to write a story. However, you couldn't rewrite someone's sentiments on what they thought of those ceremonies, rewrite their commentary, etc. That portion of their "news" piece is indeed copyright protected.
     
    jhmattern, Aug 10, 2008 IP
  17. jdonaldson

    jdonaldson Peon

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    #17
    2. However, if you saw an article written by an AP journalist, and you simply re-worded it (not adding any of your own commentary, additional background, other source materials, or own perspective for example), you would be rewriting the copyright-protected work of someone else, and therefore it would be illegal.

    Couldn't agree with you more. That's why I mentioned "in the public domain". Joe Public would never have access to raw AP copy - unless he paid for the feed himself.

    "those facts by themselves aren't copyrighted, and can be used by anyone wanting to write a story. However, you couldn't rewrite someone's sentiments on what they thought of those ceremonies, rewrite their commentary, etc. That portion of their "news" piece is indeed copyright protected."

    You CAN comment on the comments, as it were, once they are public. People making comments on someone's comments is done all the time. As long as you attribute who/what the source is.
     
    jdonaldson, Aug 10, 2008 IP
  18. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #18
    Making comments on someone else's commentary is fine. Rewriting it as though the comments are your own though would be infringement.
     
    jhmattern, Aug 10, 2008 IP
  19. jdonaldson

    jdonaldson Peon

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    #19
    Completely agree!
     
    jdonaldson, Aug 10, 2008 IP
  20. $earner

    $earner Well-Known Member

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    #20
    This thread has resulted very informative. Thanks to everyone who has participated!
     
    $earner, Aug 10, 2008 IP