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What PHP frame work do you use?

Discussion in 'PHP' started by goldensea80, Apr 4, 2008.

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What PHP frame work do you use?

  1. Symfony

    3 vote(s)
    6.8%
  2. CakePHP

    4 vote(s)
    9.1%
  3. Zend Framework

    10 vote(s)
    22.7%
  4. I use my own

    10 vote(s)
    22.7%
  5. Other (please specify)

    6 vote(s)
    13.6%
  6. What the heck are framework?

    11 vote(s)
    25.0%
  1. popol

    popol Peon

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    #21
    agree with Danltn.
    i don't know what you're talking about, perhaps you need to get some info before you badmouth some framework..SEMrush
     
    popol, Jul 5, 2008 IP
    SEMrush
  2. blueparukia

    blueparukia Well-Known Member

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    #22
    I do know what I am talking about, having used both the ones I mentioned extensively when doing integration work for MyBB and Interspire shopping cart, as well as when I first started learning Javascript. The code is only just accessible, and rather bloated (100kb, uncompressed is...eugh).

    The image gallery thing on their site is proof enough, and IMO (notice I said IMO) it overcomplicates rather than simplifies. Plus to find out how it works I have to read someone else's code, about jus over half of which I'd do differently - which by then I may as well write my own framework (which I have done, thought it uses "normal" javascript - its just collection of prebuilt functions (most emulating PHP, plus a few very lightweight scripts such as fade in/out and drag and drop - with handles, as well as cross browser methods such ass add element/child/attribute) all of which are removable. Next revision I do will include a form validator, not written by me, but by a dear friend ;)

    All of the functions in mine, which does more than everything I need (for when I release it, some people want extra features) and maintains a healthy 25kb in size UNCOMPRESSED (should really compress it, see what that does to it) .

    Anyway, this is waaaaay off topic. So I'm outta here, for fear that next thing you may say is "Dreamweaver is awesome" ;)
     
    blueparukia, Jul 5, 2008 IP
  3. LogicFlux

    LogicFlux Peon

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    #23
    That's true, using JQuery is more like using a different language than just using a library. But I thought JQuery was well more than 16kb compressed? And when you start using plugins it goes up a lot more. The reason I usually use YUI is because it's broken up so well into smallish files and you don't have to include more than what you need.
     
    LogicFlux, Jul 5, 2008 IP
  4. LogicFlux

    LogicFlux Peon

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    #24
    I just googled JQuery's file size, I guess it is around 20kb packed. I was thinking about jquery.xxx.min.js which is around 54kb. I still like how YUI is broken up though. If I wanted to pack the YUI library I could and get some of the file down to around 5kb(I've tried it before). I might still end up using more than 20kb packed, but chances are some of the stuff I would be including in YUI would require external plugins if done in JQuery which increases file size.
     
    LogicFlux, Jul 5, 2008 IP
    clinton likes this.
  5. Danltn

    Danltn Well-Known Member

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    #25
    Definitely 16kb once gzipped - possibly smaller!

    And to get back to the real point... I'm not necessarily saying jQuery is better than other JS libs such as YUI (although I prefer it) but that simply using a JS lib can speed up your development time, and really - in this day and age, what's 16kb?

    Just running your JS, CSS and HTML through a compressor can make up for this.

    Dan
     
    Danltn, Jul 5, 2008 IP
  6. InFloW

    InFloW Peon

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    #26
    I used to maintain my own PHP framework but I've switched to Zend Framework as I have no interest in maintaining something that is really just the back ground work. I'd rather focus on the logic of the application rather than writing DB classes, validation systems ect. Zend Framework or any other popular PHP framework also has the advantage of other people knowing it. Having someone jump into your own framework can take some time compared to if they already have used one of the others.

    Now as far as the javascript frameworks, I also used to have my own framework for it but over time it became cumbersome to keep up to date with fixes and changes to run on all the browsers. It's easier to just have JQuery maintain that and I'll worry about what really matters. It's also a lot easier once again to be using something a lot of developers have experience with. There is a big reason a lot of systems are switching to use JQuery, YUI and various other JS frameworks. It is just not worth the effort to maintain non application portion of the javascript.

    I'm going to imagine some here are also against source control. They do not believe in using GIT, SVN, CVS or something like them. Assuming there is more than one developer do you just use a source control shingle or something?
     
    InFloW, Jul 5, 2008 IP
  7. Mozzart

    Mozzart Peon

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    #27
    You know I think frameworks are probably the future of web applications, writing scripts in a procedural way is getting tiresome. Now everyone is flirting with design patterns and OOP (which is really good)

    I myself use ZF, also have tried cakephp, codeigniter but i just plainly like ZF, it's just too darn good
     
    Mozzart, Jul 5, 2008 IP
  8. itnashvilleCOM

    itnashvilleCOM Banned

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    #28
    My own, you can't beat a system you know like the back of your hand and you dont have to worry about buggy releases. haha.
     
    itnashvilleCOM, Jul 6, 2008 IP
  9. chopsticks

    chopsticks Active Member

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    #29
    That is true to a certain extent, but it does take the extra effort to find and fix all possible exploits in your code as well as slow code within it if it exists.
     
    chopsticks, Jul 6, 2008 IP
  10. InFloW

    InFloW Peon

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    #30
    Well something I thought to bring up was why stop at creating your own framework why not go further? Why use PHP when you could use C or actually just move to ASM and then you'll have real control.

    The frameworks remove one less thing to worry about. The big thing is they're coded at the level of the language itself. PHP was originally suppose to be just a templating language if my memory serves me right. It's really just a much easier way to develop dynamic sites than doing them in C (I know people who coded their sites in pure C)
     
    InFloW, Jul 7, 2008 IP
  11. clinton

    clinton Well-Known Member

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    #31
    PHP was started just to perform simple tasks(Personal Home Page). But it's grown to be much more than that, the use of classes has enabled us to use OOP.

    I don't want to use ASM(I heard it's a pain in the ass) but I wouldn't mind using C++ for web development. The only problem with that is the limited amount software that supports the use of C++ in the same way I use PHP. I also think it might be a little bit of overkill to use C++ for web development when working on a small project.

    I like PHP because it's simple(yet not too simple), it's flexible, it's pretty fast and it's easy to pick up(you don't have to because a complete geek to use it). A problem with using PHP is that it can be waayyy too forgiving. You can be as messy and unorganized as you want and still use PHP. Thats a bad thing and I try to stay as organized as possible when it comes down to that.
     
    clinton, Jul 7, 2008 IP
  12. bucabay

    bucabay Peon

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    #32
    What about developing a framework on top of an existing framework?

    I usually write a layer/wrapper on top of the framework I use so that the framework can be upgraded and the layer just stays relatively the same, or vise versa. That way you have some control but keep the updates to the framework..
     
    bucabay, Jul 7, 2008 IP
  13. Ragnarok

    Ragnarok Peon

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    #33
    Im just started programming in php, i didnt know that it has frameworks. I might try one soon to see whether it's easy to master php using frameworks
     
    Ragnarok, Jul 7, 2008 IP
  14. mz906

    mz906 Peon

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    #34
    just my .02

    for those bashing frameworks...umm, it's not for everyone, IMO framework are far those that want to focus on something else: i.e.

    use drupal as the CMS, focus on marketing your site
    use mootools, focul is on back end php/mysql
    etc.

    most ppl use frame works to save time and in the end make more money

    I'm new to php, but old to frameworks, and going thru the headache (sometimes) of learning some else's code, i've started building my own php framework, but i'm still using YUI ;)

    just curious does anyone out there use SMARTY?
     
    mz906, Jul 7, 2008 IP
  15. chopsticks

    chopsticks Active Member

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    #35
    I've tried Smarty and personally, I am not very fond of it. I didn't really get to deep into it but I did find some aspects of it to be very good. I pretty much stopped using it after reading crap loads of threads on Sitepoint about using an extra unecessary layer on your code, i.e, the templating engine.

    Since reading all that and seeing how all it really did was slow you down I moved on to just using pure php in templates instead. The code is still separated and all logic is performed prior to the template being accessed.

    Removing the template engine I was using from my site reduced the memory usage and had some minor speed improvements. Since then i've never looked back.
     
    chopsticks, Jul 8, 2008 IP
  16. itnashvilleCOM

    itnashvilleCOM Banned

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    #36
    Yeah, but once you do, it is well worth it. You have a solid system that you can trust that no n00bs have messed with. If it breaks, you don't have to go far to find it's developer. LOL Also, when using a widely used framework, the hackers have the code too. They know the vulnerable spots. Where-as with your own framework, they have to dig harder to find vulnerabilities and since most "hackers" these days are just 13 year olds with pre-made bots, they give up because they have no idea how to proceed.
     
    itnashvilleCOM, Jul 11, 2008 IP
  17. revvi

    revvi Peon

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    #37
    I use Qcodo framework in my various projects. It is suitable to all aspects starting from game to full-blown applications. The good thing, most components are easily extended. It supports AJAX without the need to write any javascript code at all.
     
    revvi, Jul 11, 2008 IP
  18. clinton

    clinton Well-Known Member

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    #38
    Thats the thing. With existing frameworks hackers can exploit you to hell because they know the codes and stuff. Your own made framework is only viewed by you and your co-workers.

    I'm opening a social network on my own framework. Even though the basic framework is out in the public the plug ins I wrote are private to my project. So any md5 hashes can't be looked up and manipulated.
     
    clinton, Jul 11, 2008 IP
  19. Danltn

    Danltn Well-Known Member

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    #39
    Hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned.
     
    Danltn, Jul 11, 2008 IP
  20. slaydragon

    slaydragon Banned

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    #40
    what is framework? and why use framework? y can't we just use the normal coding as in php.net
     
    slaydragon, Jul 11, 2008 IP