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What is the perfect link?

Discussion in 'Link Development' started by Dominic, May 29, 2004.

  1. #1
    I've seen a few different requests for links, some of which have made me wonder if they know anything about what they are doing and some that have made me ask do I know anything about what I'm doing!

    What is most valuable to you when it comes to getting links:
    * use of your primary keyword/phrase in the link text (this gets my 1st vote)
    * getting listed first (or very high up) on the links page
    * a text link in the middle of a paragraph on a content page
    * a text link which is as long as possible
    * the theme of the site linking to your site
    * the theme of the page linking to your site (this gets my 2nd vote)
    * the number of total outbound links in the site
    * the number of links on the page
    * the pagerank of the page
    * the number of visitors to the site
    * the number of clicks the page is from the homepage

    What has me perplexed is why some people ask for a link that has twenty or so words in it? What are they trying to achieve there?

    Well I know someone is probably going to say 'Well Dominic, you listed a number of features that make a link more valuable...'
    SEMrush
    What I'm asking is what is most valuable to you (pick 2 features) or mention one I have left off the list.
     
    Dominic, May 29, 2004 IP
    SEMrush
  2. compar

    compar Peon

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    #2
    In order of importance I would arrange them as follows.

    #1 * use of your primary keyword/phrase in the link text
    #2 * use of your primary keyword/phrase in the link text
    #3 * use of your primary keyword/phrase in the link text
     
    compar, May 29, 2004 IP
  3. steve sardell

    steve sardell Peon

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    #3
    Hi Dominic,

    Compar has listed my same three choices. I will add what I personally consider the least important.
    *the number of total outbound links in the site* I see this as having no relationship at all -I'd love to have a link from Yahoo!
     
    steve sardell, May 29, 2004 IP
  4. Dominic

    Dominic Well-Known Member

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    #4
    That's a very good point - the reason why I raise it is it seems to be a selling point raised by people selling text links.

    I would prefer a link from a page with fewer internal or outbound links as the pr is divided amongst the links.

    But in terms of outbound links on a site - do we know enough about how pagerank is 'kept within a site.' I would take an uneducated stab at saying the pagerank a page has on offer is distributed through it's links, and the question of total outbounds on a site is inconsequential to what happens locally on a page. The theory goes if the page has 'scored' pagerank from the site it has that to offer - if a site with zillions of outbound links 'leaked' pr so badly, the page would be atributed less pr. The fact that each page is scored individually with pr allows us to judge each page individually (when considering the pr component).

    You do raise an interesting angel to this discussion:

     
    Dominic, May 29, 2004 IP
  5. Arnica

    Arnica Peon

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    #5
    Perhaps in the belief that it will give them some weight across all the keywords contained in the twenty words? From my observations on 'allinanchor' position movements any additional anchor text merely dilutes the value of all the keywords within the anchor text. Better to stick with your main two / three word phrase then build your secondary phrases separately.

    Mick
     
    Arnica, May 30, 2004 IP
  6. ferret77

    ferret77 Heretic

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    #6
    for a moment after the florida update I was sort of convinced that google had hit my sites for the anchor text

    since they still ranked for mainAnchorTest + someother words

    I assumed that maybe if I optimized my anchor text for mainAnchorTest + someother words

    I would have been ok, I have since found so many holes in that theroy I disgaurded it but maybe this guy didn't
     
    ferret77, May 30, 2004 IP
  7. schlottke

    schlottke Peon

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    #7
    Bob is right on the money- link text is easily the main factor.
     
    schlottke, May 30, 2004 IP
  8. Dominic

    Dominic Well-Known Member

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    #8
    I guess thats why I find it so weird that so many requests for links don't contain keywords in the preferred link text - quite often it's the business name or something that is descriptive and 'clickable.'

    Dominic
     
    Dominic, May 30, 2004 IP
  9. Ergobob

    Ergobob Peon

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    #9
    Great information. So, to sum it up would the following suggestion for a link request be perfect if you were optimizing for the keyword "ergonomics"? And would you go back to existing people linking to you to request a change of wording?

    <p><a href="http://www.usernomics.com/workplace-ergonomics.html"> Ergonomics:</a> Comprehensive Internet Resources by Usernomics.</p>

    Thanks,

    Bob
     
    Ergobob, May 30, 2004 IP
  10. compar

    compar Peon

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    #10
    I haven't checked the competitiveness or popularity of 'ergonomics' as a keyword, but the general view is that you probably should try and optimize for a 2 or 3 word phrase rather than a single word. However if there isn't much competition you might be able to achieve position for a single word.

    Now the information after the anchor text may make the link more attractive to anyone who would click on it, but it ads nothing to the search engines.
     
    compar, May 30, 2004 IP
  11. Dominic

    Dominic Well-Known Member

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    #11
    I was hoping a consecutive use of the keyword/phrase in the text after would help the search engine as the page would be more 'on topic' than a link only on the term.

    e.g.
    Homeless - Homelessness and homeless people in Australia, includes pictures and real life stories of homeless people.

    v. just straight:
    Homeless

    Maybe it would be even better to have the linktext in the middle of the sentence:
    Homelessness and homeless people in Australia, includes pictures and real life stories of homeless people.

    Am I splitting hairs?
     
    Dominic, May 30, 2004 IP
  12. john_loch

    john_loch Rodent Slayer

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    #12
    No I don't think you are splitting hairs at all.

    If theme/context is at all relevant, that's how to leverage it. :)
     
    john_loch, May 31, 2004 IP
  13. Ergobob

    Ergobob Peon

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    #13
    Hi Compar,

    My three keywords are fairly competitive but there is nothing close to any one of them when you check Ergonomics, Human Factors, and User Interface Design. But I am #7, 18, and 19 on Google, respectively, so I am getting there.

    I have optimized for Consultant and Consulting along with those words but very few people search for "ergonomics consultant", etc. So I stay with my main keyword for each page.

    Given that, the backlink that I suggested above should work fine for Ergonomics - right?
     
    Ergobob, May 31, 2004 IP
  14. compar

    compar Peon

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    #14

    I would ceratinly never us "homeless" all by itself. But apparently you are not talking about "homeless" as a generic term. So your anchor text should be "Australian homeless" or "Homeless in Australia". Those anchor texts would do a lot more to tell Google what your site was relevant to. I really think one word keywords or anchor text should almost never be used or optimized for.

    All this topical/theme concern is fine, but I still don't think google is doing any of that today. You use anchor text to tell Google what the link is relevant to or about. And I don't think you can convey that message with a single word.
     
    compar, May 31, 2004 IP
  15. Dominic

    Dominic Well-Known Member

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    #15
    The issue for me is that 'homeless' is far and away what people search on, I am aiming for global traffic, not just specific to homelessness in Australia.

    So I want to eventually climb the heap and rank in the top ten results for a search on 'homeless,' (my primary keyword) - where the traffic is.

    Are you saying that to do this I should focus instead on getting links which are to my secondary phrases?

    Some of my links are to: 'Homelessness & Homeless People in Australia' which is the most descriptive link. (this was also my original title - now the title is just 'homeless')

    Primary:
    Homeless

    Secondary:
    Homelessness
    Homeless Children
    Homeless Pictures
    Homeless Statistics
    Homeless People
    Homeless News

    Tertiary:
    Homeless Australia
    Homeless Volunteer
    Homeless Photos
    Homeless Images
    Define Homeless
    Define Homelessness
    Homeless Pics
    Pictures of Homeless People
    Pictures of Homeless Children
    Houseless
    Houselessness
    Define Houseless
    Define Houselessness
    Donate
    Charity
    Donate to Charity
    Homeless Charity

    Semantic:
    Shelter
    Poverty
    Homelessness

    (note - I have internal directories and pages targeting the secondary, tertiary and semantic terms)
     
    Dominic, May 31, 2004 IP
  16. disgust

    disgust Guest

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    #16
    "Bob is right on the money- link text is easily the main factor."

    once again I agree here completely.

    a site being "on topic" isn't nearly as important as the anchor text is
     
    disgust, Jun 7, 2004 IP
  17. compar

    compar Peon

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    #17
    I just checked your site in the McDar Keyword Analysis Tool and all I can tell you is that you have long way to go. You rank #306 in the SERP and #30 for allinanchor:

    Are you in the top ten for any of your terms?

    I think you are trying too many different terms you're never going to get the anchor text density -- I just coined a new term -- if you are trying to get IBLs for all these terms.
     
    compar, Jun 7, 2004 IP
  18. ZanderXML

    ZanderXML Guest

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    #18
    And I wouldn't ... I prefer the top page link from http://games.yahoo.com/ with ANY text, if we are talking about games content, then keywords in my link on www.some_unknow_domain.com/some_unknown_page.html

    Got me? ;)
     
    ZanderXML, Jun 8, 2004 IP
  19. Dominic

    Dominic Well-Known Member

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    #19
    Primary:
    Homeless n/a

    Secondary:
    Homelessness n/a
    Homeless Children n/a
    Homeless Pictures 8
    Homeless Statistics 6
    Homeless People 16
    Homeless News 11

    Tertiary:
    Homeless Australia 1
    Homelessness Australia 5
    Homeless Volunteer 1
    Homeless Photos 4
    Homeless Images 3
    Define Homeless 1
    Define Homelessness 1
    Homeless Pics 2
    Pictures of Homeless People 16
    Pictures of Homeless Children 2
    Houseless 3
    Houselessness 2
    Define Houseless 1
    Define Houselessness 1
    Donate n/a
    Charity n/a
    Donate to Charity n/a
    Homeless Charity n/a

    The rankings are generally higher on yahoo.

    Yes there is a long way to go for the primary - the secondary and tertiary can be achieved with internal links, but for homeless and homelessness I'm pretty far behind.

    Compar - the question of using a single keyword (homeless) as anchor text in links I request (instead of a two or more word phrase) - is that the right direction to head in...
     
    Dominic, Jun 8, 2004 IP
  20. nadlay

    nadlay Guest

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    #20
    Should you always try and use two or more words for links?
     
    nadlay, Jun 10, 2004 IP