What do you think about the relegion Islam(specialy non-muslims)

Unbelievable. We have two people here justifying pedophilia. It is becoming increasingly clear that such lengths are gone to because Polite and Wmghori, it appears to me you begin with a flawed notion, (Islam is "revealed perfection"), and work backwards from there, discarding any evidence showing otherwise. This is a tautology, with horrible consequences in the real world. I am deeply saddened by the tortured lengths gone to, and by the silence of others.

Wmghori, with Browntwn and Stox, let me put just one example in perspective. Your tack: you cite "a list of younger mothers," specifically, mentioning the single instance - presumably, in recorded history - of a 5 year old having been raped, then having given birth. That single instance, in the year 1939, was in a world with a populatation of somewhere around 2.25 billion. I don't have a figure for world births in 1939, which would be a more apt comparison, but nevertheless, so we can all see how utterly ridiculous this instance is, as a representative example, your lone instance of a 5 year old birth mother accounts for:

0.00000004% of the world population at the time.

I understand Polite, you will do whatever you can to justify this human tragedy, and now, presumably, you are joined by Wmghori. I am appalled I've yet to hear more than 2 muslim voices stand in opposition to this unspeakable crime.

And Wmghori, please show me:

In fact, don't bother. There isn't any such law. It is recognized in U.S. law that sex with prepubescent children is, in fact, pedophilia, and a crime.

 

Isn't it hilarious that he had posted a map clearly showing that in various states in the US the age of consent varies between 16 and 18 before making the blatantly wrong and ill-educated claim that in the US 9 year olds can have sex with grown men.

I guess when someone is in the unfortunate position of having to defend the rape of children on religious grounds making shit up as and when they need it is a requirement.

 

Ha! Missed that, Stox. Yep, agreed - Wmghori, you might have looked first, before leaping, if you wanted to do whatever you could to justify this.

Here. Here's how the concept plays out, in one instance, in Saudi Arabia:

Why are women, and girls, treated like this? Can we not speak honestly? Are these people - sisters, mothers, wives - not afforded approximately the same dignity as cattle?

 

1. That's awful

2. Do not...ever use the daily mail as a source. seriously.

3. That article is from 2008 and i am almost certain i saw it somewhere else saying the ruling was overturned.

4. It's Saudi Arabia..what do you expect? It's ran by a corrupt family of idiots.

 

Thraxed, I don't actually know anything about the Daily Mail, as a source (sorry, honestly, naive on its merit, or lack of merit). What I find disturbing are the cleric justifications I see - the one, in the video earlier in this thread.

I'm obviously beyond disturbed to see people like Polite and Wmghori actually attempt the argument that a 7-year old can, in any way, be an "adult," fully ready and legitimately a partner in a consummated marriage. I am utterly blown away that more people beyond yourself (and Gauhar, in part, as I said), have not come forward to say NO!!!! This is not how feel!!! - you know?

 

I can't speak for them but what i think they are trying to say is that, it is totally wrong to do such a thing in todays society, but 1400 years ago it wasn't rejected by society and was the norm, so it wasn't seen as something that was 'wrong' so it is harsh to single out Muhammad for it as he was just another person.

And yeah i do share your concerns.

 

I have to say, Thraxed, I don't see that at all - Polite and Wmghori have both spent considerable efforts to justify the practice, today...(see the talk about prepubescent children today being "adults," for example).

And as to Muhammed, and common practice then - was it? I am willing to accept there were lots of things done then that I would still condemn (actually, I have condemned these, too; for example, I believe Abraham's impregnation of Hagar was little more than a rape, by a slave master, something seen, sadly, throughout the history of slave/master relationships ; David's horrible murder of one of his trusted soldiers, all because of his lust for the man's wife; and so on) (You'll note that Polite was trying to justify the practice there, too).

That said, even if it is shown that it was common practice then, he apparently consummated his marriage with Aisha when she was 9 (I am going on the Bukhari hadith - and I know there are some who claim this is inaccurate).

If so, wasn't she a child still, even though this was centuries ago (we haven't evolved that much, I don't believe)? And if she was a child, if even judging by today's standards - are we not to judge this as wrong, as wrong as young boys being sent into homosexual servitude to teachers, in ancient Greece? (Certainly bnot to be considered enlightened practice, yes?).

 

NPT,

You are condemning the pharmacies just because number of them been used to sell drugs.

You should condemn what is wrong (selling drugs) not what is fine.

I think you should ban divorce as well for it made so many problems in the world throughout the history.

Regarding this story in Saudi Arabia,

Actually, I wonder how could the court say that the daughter cannot be divorced while Nujood in Yemen could divorce herself?

O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will, and you should not treat them with harshness, that you may take away part of the Mahr[Money of marriage] you have given them, unless they commit open illegal sexual intercourse. And live with them honourably. If you dislike them, it may be that you dislike a thing and Allâh brings through it a great deal of good. (19)

But if you intend to replace a wife by another and you have given one of them a Qintar (of gold i.e. a great amount as Mahr), take not the least bit of it back; would you take it wrongfully without a right and (with) a manifest sin? (20)

If the girl don't want to marry that man, she has the right in Islam to reject such marriage, it is her own business.

 

Thraxed, like I said, Polite would like to convince us of its legitimacy, for today.

He tried the "pharm" thing earlier, that didn't work, and now he's returning to it again - making no sense at all, in my opinion. Which is what I object to, really - the incredible lengths to go through, all to justify what nature itself tends to rebel against.

 

Yeah i get what you're saying but it wasn't a centuries ago it was over a millenium ago, i'm guessing things were different beyond what we imagine now, and yes, you're right, it was wrong.

 

Thraxed, thanks for the input. Just so we're on the same page, I do know we're talking over a millenium ago. Obviously, I do not have any evidence to show how effectively "old" Aisha was, but would hazard that it wouldn't be the kind of tidal shift in evolution such that a 9 year old was a "woman," for all intents and purposes - nothing I know on that kind of order takes place that fast, in evolution.

And again, and I think we're in agreement here, the real issue is what people practice today. Deeply troubling that people would think it's OK to marry and bed a 9 year old girl, and more troubling the veil cast over the practice by any possible means.

 

Most definitely, it's absurd.

 

If mariage and sex life 2,000 years ago was at the age of 9, we certainly would have known it from the history books. As we know it, girls about 2,000 years ago till about a century ago were getting married at the age of about 16 and up. Today's science can prove the age of a sceleton.... and nowhere so far it is mentioned that people at 9 were getting married and were reproducing 2000 years ago.

Like I said before most muslims wont' accept the fact that his (muhammad's) mariage to the 9 year old girl was wrong since that will mean Muhammed is no longer the perfect "prophet".
That's why so many of them are fanatically defending that marriage as something normal by all means.

If 9 year old girls are not mature enough for normal sex then what kind of sex Muhammed had with her, the perverted one (anal)? I've seen what an 8-9 year old girls look like and I can assure you they are literary children and not ready for sex.
Putting such children in bed with a grown man is one of the most disgusting thing one can imagine.

 

NO it is not justified. Its sick.

Huh? America is not bombing Iraq. American liberated it from an evil dictator and has helped rebuild it. I don't seem to recall Israel doing anything proactively to Palestine unless they were provoked by way of suicide bombings...

Have you been living under a rock or something? Is it backwards day?

What's wrong? Defending oneself? Are you trying to compare the rape of a 9 year old pre-pubescent youth to defending harm to ones person or country?

Having been 16 once, yeah.. its way too young. So's 18. In reality we derive what is right or moral by what our culture or laws have established as so.

Keep in mind that people that once lived to the ripe old age of 40 where as 20 was "middle aged", marriage as a teenager was pretty common place. Things are a bit different now.

Would that "certain" be Muslim?

??? How is being "married off to someone" a "way out"?

If anything its still bondage. Thank God older religions and cultures have evolved past this way of thinking. There may be hope for Islam yet. Its relatively young in comparison to other religions. It may too evolve past this draconian way of thinking.

 

It is certainly mentioned in the history books, but your problem is that you are one of those who read and write while they are fool.

Because simply his marriage was absolutly instructive.

He bring more happiness and honer to Aysha and her family.

We have learned to interfere not our ourselves in something not of our business, but it seems that you lack such character.

While it is true that they are generally not adult, there are always exceptions.

For example the girl that gave birth at 5, was she not exceptional?

It is also a fact that the old generations were more stronger and more healthy than ours.

Moreover, Mohammad's touch caused little things to be great.

Few amount of food supplied the whole muslims because of prophet Mohammad, peace be upon him.

In the desert, few drops of water, when poured on his hands, the water flowed and all those around him were saved.

On more than one occasion, the Prophet blessed food by either praying or touching it so all present could get their fill. This happened at times when food and water shortage afflicted Muslims.

You cannot judge a person through what you see in your image, unless, of course, you are fool.

Any life that is about sex is disgusting.

By the way, children like to be in bed with grown people when they are afraid at night. It is not disgusting to allow them, it is human behavior.

It is a noble act to spread peace.

Now as a christian, can you explain what is your reference for what is right and what is wrong?

let us see how deep in hypocrisy you are.

Hint: Jewish people are fine with atheism.

 

Polite teen,
1) do you personally know of anybody who married at less than 12? what country do you live, if we may ask?

2) Would you give your daughter to a man above 40 if she were 12, and told you she loves him?

Jewish people are also fine with organ harvesting, and drinking Christian blood for passover matzos

 

No.

I think she can marry him if she was adult, aware. even if I don't like that.

But to answer you, I would marry her off as long as the man is noble and has a good image.

In that case, I would garantee that my daughter will not look for other man.

Before you marry off your daughters/sons, you have to study the situation and results, I believe.

If it is good or at least fine, then don't mind, but if it causes more problems, then try to stop it gently.

Thank you for the information.

I would cosider this when I claim to the people that the jews admit their errors.

 

our cultures are very different.
In my culture, the age of 12 is not an "adult", in all cases. I am talking mentally, not physically.
For example You know that by law some movies are "not suitable for children under the age of 14".
I am certain that I was a completely different person at 18 in comparison with 12. Wasn't you?

In my culture we say: a person should not marry before his personality is shaped. Before he is fully educated and aware of his own shaped personality. Once finished growing mentally, the person can make the decision by himself : who, what, when he wants to marry. Her father has done his job, now its up for her. he don't have to "guard her" or "stop it".

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
lets look at it from a different angle. Lets hear your answer to this:

In my culture, age of 20 is certainly considered "adult".
So, why it is so rare in my culture to find 20 year old women who marry 50 year old men? so rare that one might say that effectively it does not exist?

You and I know the answer. In my culture, the women get to choose what's best for them. In your culture, they don't.
20 year old women who have the choice do not marry or even date a 50 year man. If they do, they get their own TV show.....

Or let me know if you have another explanation for this.

Its fine dude, I perfectly understand. I would have been ashamed to say too if I were you.

 

Not completely, but I am better due to experience in my life.

Of course people are supposed to become better with time.

Your logic is right.
This is one of the reasons that prophet Mohammad, peace be upon him and his family, married Aysha.

He left her up to him and enlightened her and shaped her personality to be a star and guidance for people after him.

So, peace be upon such husband who gave much to his wife.

In my culture, the women are the glory of the family, and they choose what is best for them and their family.

I didn't get what you mean by "they get their own TV show"

Just for your knowledge,

The same sound have different meaning when the context (or language) is considered, and the context always must be considered.

Peace and piece have the same sound, but they are different meaning.

Sex in marriage and sex outside marriage is the same behavior, but they are completley different things.

Marriage is a language of union project to build and enjoy life.
Adultery is a language of randomness project to dishoner and enjoy life.

Yet sex is just a touch, but for those who know the Secret of Creation, they know why it is wrong sometimes and vey evil, and why it is fine other times and very good.

 

LOL,

Do you really believe we can buy this BS? Do you think it is better for a child (girl) not to grow up like every other kid enjoying their childhood years, but instead be put in bed for physical pleasure of a man who has about 9 years left to live and who is over 40 years older than her?

Your thinking is dangerous man; you should go see a psychiatrist. People thinking like you should never be allowed to come to the west.
A young girl's character should be shaped by her parents! Not by a pedofile!

Your logic can fool only morons, fools and pedofiles. You should be ashamed of yourself defending pedofiles.