What do you think about the relegion Islam(specialy non-muslims)

This is the thing, in islam "relationships" are nothing more than fathers pimping out their daughters to whoever has the most money.

 

To answer the original question: what do I think about Islam? Well, I guess it's just about like any other religion. Most religions teach that their way is the right way and sometimes the only way. Maybe not always overtly, but certainly that's a hidden message. In general, religion can be a positive institution, but since just about every major religion out there only teaches/preaches a fraction of "the truth", then in my mind they are doing their followers a disservice. I am not religious. I don't like organized religion. I am very spiritual. My spiritual beliefs are much grander than Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, etc. No, I don't know "the truth" any more than 99.99% of people, but at least my mind is much more open than 99.99999% of the world's population.

 

Excuse me!!
Would you stop for a moment?!
O...man...Haven't you thought-one day- about yourself ?
Who has made it?
Have you seen a design which hasn't a designer ?!
Have you seen a wonderful,delicate work without a worker ?!
It's you and the whole universe!..
Who has made them all ?!!
You know who ?.. It's "ALLAH",prise be to him.
Just think for a moment.
How are you going to be after death ?!
Can you believe that this exact system of the universe and all of these great creation will end in in nothing...just after death!
Have you thought, for a second, How to save your soul from Allah's punishment?!
Haven't you thought about what is the right religion?!
Read ... and think deeply before you answer..
It is religion of Islam.
It is the religion that Mohammad-peace upon him- the last prophet, had been sent by.
It is the religion that the right Bible- which is not distorted-has preached.
Just have a look at The Bible of (Bernaba).
Don't be emstional.
Be rational and judge..
Just look..listen...compare..and then judge and say your word.
We advise you visiting :

http://www.islam-guide.com
http://www.thetruereligion.org

 

It all depends on whethe rits moderate or extreme islam here. This doesnt even come close to applying to all muslims, as I have muslim friends and the parents have never "pimped out" their daughters. Seems like ignorance is at an alltime high.

 

Ping, I said this earlier - I have seen clerics justifying it, saw Muhammed did it, and have waited for Muslims here to speak out on the the issue. I have seen 2 Muslims do so - Thraxed, and Gauhar - and I thank and praised them for it. My issue is that outside of them, I've gotten zilch, on the questions raised. I want Muslims to come forward to say, "not my way, man," as I've said. But there has been an almost universal dearth, here. Why?

 

Just saw this quote today (on a box of cookies I am eating). Anyway, it seemed to fit.

"The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."
-- Dante Alighieri

 

Moderate/secular Muslims don't really practice Islam anyways.

We're talking about Fundamental Muslims, Muslims that live by the Syari'ah Laws that Prophet Mohammad left them.

 

How about we have a muslim explain to us what the difference is between a moderate and extreme muslim is? Im not muslim(im christian) and my guess is you arent muslim either. Lets for once have someone well versed in islam explain thgis to us so we can get a clear picture so that we can try to see it from their point of view. My guess is no one knows islam more then a practicing muslim.

Northpoint you brought up a great point. It is time for more in their community to come out and explain this part of islam to us. 100%
Im always up for learning knew things and i know you are very open also. Guys? anyone else wanna jump in ?
We need more imams out there to come out publicly on tv as well as in the presses that will explain their stance a bit more. Can anyone point us to any online sources of imans speaking up about this?
It would be much appreciated.

Sorry for the long winded post. I guess I should really read all posts before making a package response lol.

 

In Islam there is no extremist Muslim, and no moderate Muslim, but there is a Muslim, so if you want to know what is the difference between a moderate Muslim and extremist Muslim, you do not need to ask an Imam, but the ones who invented such terms to classify Muslims, most likely these terms been found in West.


I have asked browntwn once here to identify a "moderate Muslim" after I saw him accusing somebody of "not being a moderate Muslim" but he never answered, my guess for a moderate Muslim in the eyes of the West, is anybody who is willing to drink alcohol, practice homosexuality or be cool about it, eat pork ..etc, despite all are not allowed in Islam, now this guy is moderate even if he killed somebody, while an extremist Muslim is any Muslim who does follow Islam teachings in praying, fasting, not drinking alcohol, or eating pork, reject homosexuality and similar dirt ..etc even if he did not harm anybody and does not intend to harm anybody.

 

Imad, why have you avoided the obvious issues that have been around lately, on the subjects of child marriages, and the Taliban, in terms of Islam?

You've had carte blanche to explain your position on these issues of sincere concern, as a Muslim - and you, along with many others, have remained completely silent and avoided the discussion altogether. While I can't speak for him, I'd imagine this is some of what Ping is talking about.

 

This is exactly what id like to know about northpoint, if not for anything but to broaden my education, understanding and respect for all religions.

 

I have said and explained my position in boring details about these two issues in several occasions here, even in some threads where the posters were not really interested in a discussion but rather in taking out and spreading their hate, I posted there for others who might be interested to know.

you can search back, or you can ask me for links, and I will be glad to do the search and send you the links whenever I have time & mood to do it,

in general, if you have any question, or if you like to know my position about any issue, feel free to ask, I will reply with an answer if I know the answer, or if I do not know the answer I will post a link to some who may know it,

try not to read something in my silence else than it been discussed before, or the possibility of avoiding hateful discussions where most if not all post for something else than discussing and knowledge, by demanding for answers to questions and later if they been answered, they insist on giving them other answers they made by themselves, that can keep fueling their hate.

 

OK. YOu would have a better idea as to where you've discussed the issue of child marriage and Islam, and the Taliban, in terms of Islam...any help on links?

I understand on repeating information - been there, myself. I know that for myself, if it was important to me someone didn't get the wrong idea, or there was a misconception, etc., I do tend to have a long enough leash, and post again.

To take one issue, on child marriage, my questions are really pretty few, and I would think the answers are not complicated....I can post them again here, in the hope I can get a proper response:

I know PoliteTeen responded, saying in essence that a child of 7-9 isn't really a child, but an adult, and therefore ready for marriage, and therefore it isn't pedophilia. He also said that it wouldn't matter if what Muhammed did in life was right or wrong - he wouldn't question the behavior.

Neither of these responses are something I can accept, as a human being; in fact, quite the opposite - as I made clear, I am repulsed by the notion a person of 8 or so would be considered an adult, and that her being made to marry is perfectly righteous and just; I'm also repulsed by the notion that no matter what an individual did in life, right or wrong, I wouldn't think about his or her deeds, and would follow him or her, literally, blindly, without asking questions. Yet Polite indicated this was the proper Islamic understanding. How do you feel about these, Imad, as a practicing Muslim?

 

here is a link about Taliban:

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1406984&highlight=taliban

in general, what we know about Taliban in it's most is what been on Western media which came from American sources before the beginning of the war, and which been proven pure lies in some cases, which makes it hard to believe whatever new news that come about Taliban from these same sources.

in terms of Islam, Taliban, or any political movement, or any leader, should follow Islam laws, if been following Islam laws then they should be obeyed, if not they should be resisted by peaceful ways and if that did not work then there is the option of armed resistance if that was possible.

child marriage, in Islam terms: there is nothing called child marriage because children should not marry, anybody that force a child to marry, should be punished,

if you are referring to the prophet pbuh marriage to Aisha, this has been discussed many times, here is a link:

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?p=10437037&highlight=aisha#post10437037

if you are referring to marriage to children of 8 and 9 years in these days, then of course I m against it, and this is the position of Islam, because in Islam the girl should agree on the marriage, or it will be considered invalid, marriage in Islam must be between 2 sane adults, independent in their decision from any pressure,

if the father or some other relatives, been forcing the girl to marry, no matter what was the reason, then it is a CRIME in Islam terms, and the father or relatives should be punished.

in Islam women have the right of equal education, so if her marriage at the age of 8 will contradict with her education then the marriage will be invalid,

all these been mentioned here so many times, I will add a new question, even though its answer can be grasped if the person is truly open minded and willing to learn from a different source else than the rooted background image s/he got from media, and stereotyping - which is the question of:

if the prophet pbuh did it, and married a 9 years old girl, why shouldn't it be allowed for Muslims to follow his example? by allowing them to marry 9 years old girls?

the thread I posted it's link will hopefully answer this question indirectly, it will require little thinking, but I will answer it here clearly, at the time of the prophet, that was the normal, even 600 years after the prophet pbuh it was normal in Europe for girls to marry at the age of 8, if they did not marry at such young ages at that time, then there won't be human beings now.

Islam looked at what is best of both the individual, and the community, the benefit of the community comes above the benefit of the individual, simply because if there is no community, then there are no individuals,

at that time, and just before Islam, girls were marrying at as early as 7 and in some cases the girl did not reach puberty yet , puberty for girls is as early as 8 years, and as late as 13, Islam came and added two years, made the minimum age 9, and required puberty, and also required the approval of the girl, by asking her alone, what is this supposed to mean if we look deep into it, not just words that we hear or read in quick?

1- Islam protected the girls then:

by not allowing their parents or relatives to force them to marry, by also giving them the right to choose their husbands, by requiring puberty.

2- Islam also protected the community at that time, or at anytime the lifespan would fall, or population drop to a degree that may make it hard for it to survive:

by allowing young marriage as early as 9 years, and if this has not been done, then there won't be a community, and of course if there is no community, then there is no individuals.

Islam did NOT specify an exact age for marriage for both, girls and boys, and left it to the people to decide according to the community and individuals benefit at each time, and to some certain rules, and guidance,

at these days, as lifespan been much higher, and the education process got much longer, and since a high education is required now to advance in all life fields for a community, then it is of the benefit of the community to educate girls, and do not mean here just read and write, but high teaching since they have equal rights in education in Islam,

Islam is flexible and always encourage the concept of Ijtihad, therefore, since the benefit of the community comes in educated girls, whom are half the community, then Islam should work to protect community from falling into ignorance and backwardness by educating girls, already Islam protected girls, and their right to be beneficial to their communities and hold equal responsibilities and get equal rights, by not allowing anybody to stop in their way if they wanted to get education, and by not allowing anybody to force them to marry whom they do not want, or if they do not want to marry at all,

this is why it was the normal to marry at young ages at that time, and was rare to find a girl who reached 18 and did not marry yet
and this is why it is the normal to marry at 16+ years now, and is rare to find a girl who is less than 16 and married, in most communities, including Muslim communities, there are some cases in which a girl marry at age of 8 or 9 but if you look closely at that case you will find it came out of poverty, ignorance including ignorance of religion teachings, and not from religion.

I hope this will answer your questions, despite I believe all been answered before, but still, if this is not what you were looking for, then feel free to ask again,

I m curious to know, did you find it hard to find Islam position regarding these issues? or you found it but found it hard to understand them and you need more explanation or some individual Muslim positions regarding them?

 

Because it's sick.

 

read the answer above stOx, & thanks for proving my point.

it has not been long ago, about 1890, when legal age marriage was 7 years in the USA, you see it sick now, but if it was not like that then, then you would not have existed now to say it is sick, or anything else.


@ NPT, see what I meant when I said:

not complaining at all, there are fools everywhere, but it will be more foolish I think to waste time with them, so if you see me not answering and you have an honest question feel free to PM the thread's link, and will try to post there if I can, because I usually ignore such repeated threads, especially when the posters in them are same people always.

 

It was sick back then too. 7 year olds aren't capable of reproduction, generally, and even if they are, being pregnant would be incredibly damaging to them physically. so any "relationship" with a child in that respect would be purely sexual and if the survival of our species depended on 7 year old having babies we would have died out long ago..

By the way, can you post a source, a credible one, not one whose goal is to defend islamic paedophilia, which says the age of consent was 7 in america 120 years ago.

 

If you checked the second link in my post above, you wouldn't have to ask this question, because it was there, and at that time you were participating in that discussion too, so I wonder? do you really read the whole post or just a part, like the part I had in bold in my post above?

here it is again, but I really recommend you to try to control your negative emotions when you come to post, so you do not get blinded by your hate, and to save us time repeating the same over and over again:

 

Imad
The time scale of human history is a linear stage. But the scale of human progress is not linear in time. That is, when you judge "human progress" and not just "time", you should look at the currect graph, and not the time graph.

Here is the currect graph:


The progress done between the 7th and the 17th century, is less than done in the years 1980-1990. For example: The last witch was burnt in Europe in the year 1909 (in Switzerland). But it looks like 10,000 years had passed in our behaviour from the burning of the last witch, no?

Or, in other words: when looking at human scientific, technological, sociological, theological and moral progress, and not simply on the linear time scale, 1890 was indeed a long time ago. Almost as long ago as 1300, if you wish.

Too bad that Muslims (Saudi arabia, Kuwait, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc') did not catch up with this acceleration process fully initiated by the west (+japan), and chosen to stay in the 12th century.

p.s. - the graph of human population is linear with the graph of progress, as I hope you already know, which makes sense.

 

this can be a bit tricky, and can be abused, because we do not know what measures they followed to judge the advancement during a period of time as significant or not, besides the rapid of advancing is related to the invention of rapid tools, and not to the evolution of better minds these days, these tools made it easier for human being to reach new limits in lesser times, but all of these will depend on the advancements that been made in old times even if slowly.

I hope that made sense but I doubt it with you, in anyway, you should be concerned always about the thread topic and try not to change it to something different, most of the Atheists of these days come from Western communities, who have ideas rooted back to Christianity and the concept of trinity, and to Judaism, and the concept of chosen people,

despite the religion been dropped later in Judaism because the changes that been done to it to satisfy some at some point of old times, and which been the reasons for it not to be able to survive the new discoveries, it has been dropped at the end - it was hard to drop along with it the idea of chosen people, so the religion been dropped alone, but Judaism been kept as a race to keep the idea of chosen people, which resulted in a some of the modern Atheists,

the same with Christianity, it could not survive the advancement of the modern times because of the changes they made earlier, also they could not wipe what they did to scientist who said Earth is not the center of universe, and many others, and their apology did not make any use, people could not forget what Christianity did around the world, of burning people for refusing the idea of God can get so low by being a visible idol, even if changes been made later, and the word love been inserted everywhere, it did not make it look nicer for so many, so Christianity been a mine of Atheism these days, I do not blame Atheists who came from these backgrounds, I see them close to truth than those who insist on holding old ideas out of prejudice,

that was not the case with Islam, and it never been, in the contrary, Islam been the motivator for the greatest scientific revolution at a time Europe and West in general been living in their dark ages, and which is much needed in the darkness of our times, as your fellows educated, advanced, and very successful Westerners believe:

till these days, it was not Islam who failed to keep up with new discoveries, it been proven many times that its been new discoveries that are following Islam, there been books and many studies done by non-Muslims, in most cases Westerners, that proves this, some said it was bribes by Muslims for these scientists to make such testimonies, but nobody of these explained how they reached such conclusion, without any evidence, and without refuting these studies.