Support for Israel was pretty much mutual around the world because of the Olympic games masacre. This is usually considered the first "terrorist" attack that defined what we now see as modern day terrorism. It all started there with the PLO and people like Yassar Arafat. I cannot see where having troops in a country (Saudi Arabia) that asked us to place troops in their country and asked us to help them could possibly have preciptated a terrorist attack on 9/11. I don't see any connection. As far as staying out of the Middle East? Well France and others thought it would be nice to stay out of Poland and other places while Hitler was waging war, enslaving and killing millions of innocent people. Hell they all stayed out of it and just let the war come to them. By staying out of that conflict France became known as Occupied France. The US stayed out of it too for quite some time. I'm personally kinda glad that the US DID NOT stay out of WWII. We'd all be speaking German or Japanese had they not. Next time a good friend of yours is getting the preverbial crap kicked out of him because he looks different, just stay out of it. Let him get the crap kicked out of him. Good idea.
I don't really see a connection either but that is one the big problems bin laden has with us http://cfrterrorism.org/causes/saudiarabia.html I am not really sure if there is a way we could support Israel , and not made enemies. Jews in groups like the urgun committed some of first "terrorist" attacks against Arabs, not that this justifies anything but both side of that conflict have done terrible things to each other. http://www.rense.com/general21/pastzionist.htm. For one of my electives when I was in college I took a class on the history and theory of the various terrorist movements. but its kind of ignorant to think when you support someone's enemies with lots of weapons, that someone is going to be cool with you. The idea that the US has just been minding your business all these years and from out of now where , the terrorist are after us because they hate our "freedom" is pretty far from the truth. We liked that Islamic Extremists when they were on our side against the Russians, to them we are the same as the Russians and Iraqi is another Afghanistan. Hopefully they will not be able to stand against us becasue they don't have the outside support this time. Although, I think that as quickly as we can kill them, new recruits will stream across the border into iraqi. As stated earlier in the thread, condemnation from other muslims my slow things down, but in a lot of areas people support them. Just curious but do you think caused 911 or the embassy bombings before that?
umm I am no history scholar but isn't Islam sort of old http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Islam wikipedia says like 570 is when it started
As it is in its current incarnation and as far as Palestine is concerned as was mentioned earlier in this thread, prior to 1948, no to me, it did not exist. I rank it up there with scientology on my list of valid religions that exist in the imaginations of the delusional.
The money was given to the wrong people. Actually to the right people but they kept it for themselves and to bribe. Bribe whom? Arafat bribed every upcoming competitor for the place in power and kept the rest for himself and his supporters. That's how he stayed for so long. He also got money from fellow arab rich supporters, but the money went the same way. NO MONEY for the stone throwers= Nothing to loose, all to gain (70 virgins in heaven) if they die for Palestine (or whatever they are brainwashed with) And terrorism goes on, feeding itself in a vicious circle...
So you think he is just a nut who pulled our name out of hat, just woke up one morning and said I think I will devote my life to attacking the US?
I believe it was a mixture of things, probably a combination of personal anger towards the U.S. and something that he has learned from the Quaran referring to Jews and Christians the way it does which I imagine will leave a strong impact on someone learning those things as a child. I believe that the vast majority of muslims has some very bad feelings towards us no matter what, especially because we are supporting Israel. It doesn't take much to turn that into hatred. I personally believe that the guy who wrote the Quaran was a mental case. He married a 6 year old girl after all. He obviously got a kick out of dominating women and to this day it remains part of the culture within the muslim nations. I don't believe we have been doing a great job in the middle east, but does that justify mass murder? And do you think we should let someone decide who we can and cannot be friends with? I am not a big fan of organized religion, but do believe in supporting Israel. There is a lot of arrogance within our nation, but so is in every nation. Some of the posts in the first 3 pages of this thread were truly pathetic. Religion is what you believe in and are willing to die for. If you think that the US has done so wrong, look at the history of many European nations trying to make us out to be villains now. Look at the United Nations and its corrupt representatives. We only focus on our own screwups but in reality the world needs some serious fixing.The magnifying glass is pointed at us while others are being excused and overlooked for their wrong doings. Are we holding grudges against Germany and Japan? no. We have moved on. We are helping out wherever we can and all we ever get is criticism. I suggest visiting France and Germany to get a real taste of national arrogance and whatever else we are being accused of having. Since we are more powerful than them, of course we are being pointed at. If it wasn't for us helping out so much, what would have happened to Europe? imagine that. And what has lead to Israel being re-established in 1948? Blame should go where it belongs. What exactly have we done that is so horrible and so unforgivable that it allows all of that hatred? Were we not being threatened by the former Soviet Union and had to make some quick decisions? I just don't see where our mistakes add up to the justification for doing what has been done to us. We and the UK are trying our best while nations like France, Germany and Russia give a flying fuck about anyone but their own people and then have the nerve to point at us and project their own intentions upon us. I know what you are going at, but I don't see that being close to a valid reason for Bin Ladin to do what he has done.
How long is a piece of string? If I had to guess? Reading the crayon (spelling) certainly did not help. He is full of hate for some reason, he is nuts and why not attack all that is good and peacefull. Who knows. Who cares. I have given up on trying to understand these people. It's like trying to get into the head of a serial killer. The man is sick, "mad" and hateful. Hell his own family knew he was bad news and kicked him out of the country. It's gotta tell you something when other muslims do not like that man.
That's a first. Got a red make and no comment. I've had the reds with no sig attached, but not even a single comment to help me understand just where I went wrong? Oh dear, what shall I ever do? My guess is there are a lot of coppa agreement filed here prior to registration.
You're missinformed about this subject. Appart from Saddams killings of thousands of people every month in Iraq, there was another threat in the pot boiling which most of you might not know. Saddams family organized a camp and trained its people to go West to "RedeemSaddam" - this was the name of the operation. People were trained and prepared to go to Europe , America, Asia and other countries to kill. Why do I know? - One of my Iraqi friends was working in the palace of Saddam directly under Udais command. For 6 month directly under Saddams command. He was staff there and Christian. Saddam employed only Christians (Armenian Catholic) He didn't trust any Moslims being near to him. One day some of saddams politcal staff appeared at the staff's place and they were asked to join the camp. They all were briefly informed of the purpose which was "Redeeming Saddam". He refused to join. Days later Udai personally told him that he will take away everthing what he owns. That was quite a lot, but he also figured out that his and the lifes of his familymembers were in danger. The whole family including realtives were then on an adventerous escape, fortunately successful. In meanwhile all of the above is confirmed by several authorities in different countries through questioning many others wittneses. Details of this testimony would take to many pages here and its too horrible just to think of it. Furthermore I learned a lot about Moslims through him. He always translated the conversations held at the next table when we went to some Arab restaurants and they were allmost all about an islamic force in the rest of the world, though not too serious most of the time but the seeds were planted.
What are you people talking about? What has these killings to do with Mohammad or Jesus? All religions are more or less stupid since they were written for a time that has long passed and if you go through any of so called holy books, you can find enough texts to prove your point. I understand that it is always nice to think of simple logic like blaming Islam for everything since it gives you a feeling of understanding and ables you to express opinion without too much work or use of brain as required by thinking about complex problems involved. The facts are very simple but instead of acknowledging the needs for changes or our own faults, we go on this meaningless discussion about religion that has no end and no solution. 1- The western world economically dominates the rest of the world and this is the cause of poverty in most places. For example countries in Africa can only export raw coffee since if they put it in a box, we have so many custom duties on processed coffee that makes it impossible for people to drink it, this causes that these countries have to sell their raw product to production plants in western country and profit will be generated in our own countries. The same situation exits with oil. Raw oil for production, refinery in our own countries. 2- To keep this situation, we install corrupt governments to hold people in poverty and if people try to fight against these governments we provide the dictators with weapons and if all fails, we go in with military power and take over the country. 3- While some people from this poor countries get tired of being poor and miserable and getting shot and killed, others immigrate to our countries in search of better possibilities. 4- People who immigrate to west, after while notice that even they eat better now, they are considered a second class citizen in their new country and this is especially true about their children who are even born in west. For example in France the term Rat is synonym for a person from Algeria and it is even in the dictionary. Mean while France economy is dependent on immigrant worker from Algeria. 5- people both in the original country, especially young from middle class that are educated and know about the west and young people born in West but have parents from other countries start thinking that people from west are in no way better than them and start to fight the west with either fighting and shooting back in their own country or exploding a bomb in subway in London. This is the problem and is got nothing with Islam or Christianity. Desperate people do desperate things. Black Panther in USA, IRA in Ireland (they did the last bombing before this in England), revolutionary movements in Mexico,.... Get your head out of the sand, the question is, are we ready to pay a fair price for these countries natural resources and let them to participate in economical development or keep fighting with them and cry foul when they shoot back?
They can't. Just KISS it(keep it simply simple) I did some search, I asked Moslims to point me to passages in their Qaran and they coudn't. Whereas in the New Testament, "Love is the fullfillment of the law" and the law of love is a command as a base for all the other commandments. In the Qaran it doesn't exist it is rather a recommondation there. In the Qaran they mention the Messiah - as - they have the Messiah - pointing to Jews and Gentile Christians. They do admit about the Messiah but has nothing to do with them. Why? Who or what do they have? Satan? Yes, the spirit of Satan when its not the Messiah. Messiah means for everyone the same - The Annointed One. Dear Moslims and fellow Christians remeber one thing "Your were on his mind when he was on the cross" - especially this now for our Moslims here: He did everthing what needed to be done for our and your salvation. Also this why you can see help on the way when there are natural disasters and other problems etc.. and the help is coming from hearts of people who are joined together with a living God... ...I have searched about your history and Mohameds life and how he made himself a special messenger of God...He thought that he had a special mission to complete and thought of himself of being someone very special. Some even say that he had epilepsia, which makes people often believe to be someone very special. Mohamed so its said from history, went to an old priest in a place which is now in Iraq to learn about the scriptures. After having all the information together he killed the priest, throwing him into a well and threw heavy stones after him to make sure that he's dead. He married a rich widow and became politically very influential (Medina) He changed the scriptures according to his likeness and fittings for his position because he had to. Remember, - Islam started with murder and so it will end.
Have you never realized that we're all spiritual beings at first and that the spirit takes food in a spiritual way? - and if you don't exercise your spirit that you will become week? Or are you running around with a headache and saying - "I Head hurt"? Isn't the body just a vessel of our spirit and soul?
Arnie For some one who pretends to know about religions, may I suggest that at least you learn how to spell the name of follower of that religion, The spelling of their holly book name and the spelling of their prophet name. All religions are more or less crazy but I don't believe that you have even read the bible, let alone other religious books, otherwise you would have noticed all the contradiction and hate that is in the bible. Body is the vessel of our brain but unfortunately many in religious right absolutely refuse to use it and instead just repeat the simple, fantasy stories that gives a simple view of everything in the world.
There are some terrorist supporters on the board. Just like in real life, they hide behind the thread and attack with a red rep when no one is looking, because they can't contribute to the subject at hand