And America makes a lot of mistakes. We all do. We are only human of course. We do need to keep in mind that a lot of the mistakes are inherited. It is not President Bush created the world as we know it today. He will only be around for 3 more years and everyone in the world and the US can find someone new to bitch and whine about and blame their own stupidity on. Of course on the "mistake" front, you have to take a look at the motives. I mean, yes the US helped Iraq during the Iraq/Iran war, but the world was different place and at the time the reasons seemed justified, or better than the alternative. The same can be said of the scum bag country of Venezuela. Their commie pinko leader bashes the US, terrorizes US Citizens and murders his own people and then has the gaul to threaten the US with annihilation? What a friggin' nut case. I thought that Yum Tank Mini Pip -Squeak jon yung Kim, (or whatever that Korean leaders name is today) was bonkers, but the President of Red V takes the cake. Meanwhile the US is their largest customer. We support their entire economy by buying oil. I know I've said it before, but it needs to be said again as I think it may finally be the answer everyone is looking for to stop terrorism. I think the US should stop buying oil from other countries starting today. Things would change in a heart beat. Anti-American sentiments would be a thing of the past. The terror nations would end terror in their own way so their JC Penny White Sale wearing princes and kings can continue to water sand at will. Oil really is the key. We should just stop buying it from everyone else. A good portion of the world would go broke over night. In the end gas prices would come down, other leaders would respect the US instead of crapping on them, and terrorists would have no funding. It really is a double edge sword if you think about it. I mean terrorist nations like Venezuela and other oil rich nut prone sandy parts of the world think the US needs them. I am here to tell you we do not. You need us just as much as you think we need you. Without the US consumer supporting you, you have NOTHING! What an anachronism. You hate us, but gladly accept our dollar. What a crock. Someone explain to me how that works???
I found that here - Machine translation another bad machine translation but it is worth while It's late here and will continue tomorrow with more.
I can believe anything that you say as long as you can provide me with an authoritative reference or describe the logic behind your statements but since parrots only repeat what they have heard and are not aware of the logic, facts or reasoning behind the sentence, this will be an impossible task for them. The point of discussion was about moon God and you gave me a link to a hate Bible site without making any argument or giving any proof of your own. The guy behind moon God BS is minister/preacher named Robert Morey that has written a book that according to him is based on archaeological work of professor Coon. The only problem is that when Morey quotes professor Coon, these quotes are cut and pasted to fit his own BS and in contradiction to professor Coon Book. The problem for Morey is that professor Coon book still exist and if you want I can give the name of both Coon and Morey book so you can compare the original against Morey fake quotes. If your local library does not have the Coon book, you can request it from on of the major libraries. What a surprise, a religious man has to lie to make up a logic behind his lies. This preacher Morey is also know for his hate literature, for example this is one of his writings: The greatest weakness of Islam is that it is hopelessly tied to sacred cities and buildings," "If these cities and buildings were destroyed, Islam would die within a generation as it would be apparent to all that its god could not protect the three holiest sites in Islam." "With American ships stationed all around Arabia and troops on the ground within Saudi Arabia itself, it would take about seven minutes for cruise missiles to take out Mecca and Medina. These cities could be vaporized in minutes and there is nothing the Saudis or any other Muslim country could do to stop us. The Israelis could take out the Dome Mosque at the same time. It could happen so fast that no one would have the time to respond. With these surgical strikes, few lives would be lost. And, with three strikes against them, Islam is out!... We must tell all the Muslim countries that are presently supporting and harboring terrorists that if they do not cease and desist at once, we will destroy the heart of their religion." From Morey's book: Winning the War Against Radical Islam. This is a proposal for killing about 1,000,000 people. Do you wonder now, why some countries feel the need to develop atomic bombs? Do you agree with Morey in his plans to kill 1,000,000 people, is this what your God, Jesus and New Testament has told you? don't you think next time before blindly repeating something is better to investigate and think about it by yourself?
It is called Geo-Politics, look at the map. Read about Soviet/Russia naval force and ports available to Russian Navy. It is very important for Russia to have access to warm water (ports) through Persian Gulf, sea of Oman and then to Indian Ocean. the Russian Navy was not mobile part of the year because of Ice problem of it's other ports and access to warm water would have solved this problem. What is between Russia and warm water? Iran and Pakistan since India already had close ties to Soviet. This is the reason Iran even today is an important country for both Russia and China.
[original edited to provide a better insight] Morey is but one person mentioned in a long list of people throughout history that have uncovered evidence that "allah" was not only mentioned in pre-islamic times, but also a moon god worshipped by pagans in the area at the time. There are references from: http://www.nccg.org/islam/Islam01-Allah.html which include: There is so much more, quoted with references, from many historians, not in recent history, but spanning over a hundred years. Surely one would not suggest that so much overwhelming evidence by so many different historians and theologians over such a vast time period are all the result of "hate sites." In fact, there are some noted islamic books that reference this as well. Would it be fair to say that so many different historians and theologians, throughout a very long period of time, coming to the same conclusion based upon archeological finds and history, could be right? Or do you contend that each and every one of these references (including some in islamic books) are the result of "hate?" So far, your argument is that anything related to it is false, because Morey supposedly made some remarks you have personally deemed offensive. OK, you were offended by those remarks, and I understand why. But with so many more references (again, I've only posted *some* of them above) to findings from so many different people over the course of history, how is "allah the moon god" disqualified because you found someone's comments personally offensive and deemed them "hate?" Are you suggesting that all the other data and facts of others are disqualified because you were personally offended by Morey's remarks?
Gtech Very good that you have started to look around and think and give some references. As all you references mention, the word Allah is much older than Islam and means God in Arabic. It is ultimately derived (according to most etymologists) from Proto-Semitic ʾil-, as is Hebrew El). This is what I have posted in my previous posting with link to wikipedia and encyclopedia Britannica. My previous posting Now can you show me which of your quotes mentions at all that Allah in Islam is the same as moon God or mythological conversion of moon God? I also didn't condemn Morey because of his hate views, my objection to Morey was that he is changing the quotes from professor Coon book and draws conclusion that are contrary to what Coon writes. If you like I can provide you with original quotes from Coon book and what Morey uses in his book.
Nations and people are boosting itself from the best sides possible and I really believe that this doesn't contribute to solve any problems. What about international meetings of confessions, I mean confessing mistakes (any and all) to each another (we don't need the pope or priests for doing that ). Every nation is welcome to participate. Couldn't we all draw new strength and understanding to win the war against evil? Governments should prepare and start with their own states/provinces and then join an annual international meeting of confessions. No one could ever blame the other when mistakes are confessed and actions towards a restitution are in place to eliminate terrorism for example. ...and perhaps America will also bring capital punishment to an end, which I believe is essential to progress into the right direction and victory.
gworld, I simply pulled quotes from the article I referenced earlier, since I felt you would not take the time to explore them. It seemed practical to bring them into the thread. I'm well aware of Shabbir Ally's rebutal of Dr. Morey, which I anticipate your use of (you already are) to defend your beliefs. There is also a rebuttal of Ally's rebuttal with even more information. To this, I also point out, yet again, your continued defense of islam and the countless attacks you've made against the US, Israel, Christians and Jews. Pointing that out is important, because at first mention of "moon god" you were very reactionary and immediately called it "BS being shoved down your throat." You made mention that the source was a hate site (not true) and have previously said that everything mia or I have presented have come from hate sites. Nothing could be further from the truth. For whatever reason, you continue to defend islam by calling into question any reference that criticizes it as a "hate site." You've also called verifiable scriptures that call for the killing of Christians and Jews "BS." This is interesting to note, from someone who every 100 or so posts, interrupts their defensive of something they do not believe in, to remind us they are atheist. The argument you are pursuing is for misquoting Coon when in fact, the argument could more easily be made that Morey did not quote "enough" of Coon to satisfy Ally. None-the-less, the quotes Morey uses are accurate. Then there is the questioning of whether Coon was an authority of islam at all. Since you feel compelled to refer to sites with such controversy as "hate sites," should we also and equally consider that standard islamic rebuttal of such as "hate sites" also? It is important to note here too, that Morey is not the only person to highlight the moon god as allah in pre-islamic times. Morey is quite vocal on the subject and has written a number of books that focuses on the evils of islam. As such, he is often criticized and a target by muslims (and, I suppose now, atheists???) for his revelations. Here's where you are headed: http://thetruereligion.org/modules/wfsection/print.php?articleid=150 Here's the rebuttal to Ally's rebuttal which you are planning to use: http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/Jihad/021029.reply to.Shabit.att.html And along the way, any other reference to "moon god" will become obscure and overlooked. And in the end, you will stand by your position as an atheist, made by someone of a religion you say you are not part of. And I will stand by my position of well documented archeological discoveries and history.
Gtech You are getting better in thinking but your arguments are still weak. The rebuttal link that you provided, is just a link to Morey's BS again but I do not need Ally to make my point but I recommend all the posters to read both articles and make their own judgment. here I like to quote from Morey's site that you provided the link in your posting: "Let every Muslim terrorist please take note of the fact that I, Robert Morey, did not invent the idea that Allah came from Il or Ilah. Nor did I invent the idea that Allah in pre-Islamic times can be traced back to the Moon-God." I suppose you agree with this since this is a link that you provided in support of your argument that God of Mohammad and Islam is the moon God. Do you believe in Bible or do you think that Bible was written by Muslim terrorists? Since according to Bible Mark 15: 34 and Matthew 27:46 this is the same word used by Jesus to call God on the cross, according to the same logic that argues by use of this word by Mohammad proves that he was a moon worshiper, so should be Jesus. "Allah" as a word The word was also used in a monotheistic sense by Arab Christians in the pre-Islamic Umm al-Jimal inscription (6th century). The Hebrew word for deity, El (×ל) or Eloh (×לוה), was used as an Old Testament synonym for Yahweh (יהוה). The Aramaic word for God is alôh-ô (Syriac dialect), which comes from the same Proto-Semitic word (*ʾilâh-) as the Arabic and Hebrew terms; Jesus is described in Mark 15:34 and Matthew 27:46 as having used this word on the cross (in the forms elô-i and êl-i respectively). One of the earliest surviving translations of the word into a foreign language is in a Greek translation of the Shahada, from 86-96 AH (705-715 AD), which translates it as ho theos monos[1], literally "the one god". Also the cognate Aramaic term appears in the Aramaic version of the New Testament, called the Pshitta (or Peshitta) as one of the words Jesus used to refer to God, e.g., in the sixth Beatitude, "Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see Alaha." And in the Arabic Bible the same words (Mt 5,8): "Ø·Ùوبَى لأَنْقÙيَاء٠الْقَلْبÙØŒ ÙÙŽØ¥ÙنَّهÙمْ سَيَرَوْنَ الله" Definition of word Allah Eureka, Not only Jesus but also old testament, New testament and users of Arabic bible are all moon God worshiper. The problem with putting in quotes without knowing what you are quoting is that it can result in funny situations. One of the persons that you quote as a proof of your idea is Dr. W. Montgomery Watt, lets see what the nice doctor has to say about Islam and the evil ways of Mohammad: "I am not a Muslim in the usual sense, though I hope I am a "Muslim" as "one surrendered to God," but I believe that embedded in the Quran and other expressions of the Islamic vision are vast stores of divine truth from which I and other occidentals have still much to learn, and 'Islam is certainly a strong contender for the supplying of the basic framework of the one religion of the future.'" --W. Montgomery Watt, ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY TODAY, London, 1983, p. ix. "His readiness to undergo persecutions for his beliefs, the high moral character of the men who believed in him and looked up to him as leader, and the greatness of his ultimate achievement - all argue his fundamental integrity. To suppose Muhammad an impostor raises more problems than it solves. Moreover, none of the great figures of history is so poorly appreciated in the West as Muhammad." --W. Montgomery Watt, MOHAMMAD AT MECCA, Oxford, 1953, p. 52. I think this is where the word OBS! comes to mind. Integrity and truth are important concepts in private life and scientific research and just because I do not believe in God, doesn't mean that I have to agree with every half truth and lies. I don't think it is a useful method to use lies, torture and disrespect of law under the cover of fighting terrorism. The end does not justify the means in my mind. while terrorists can certainly kill some of us, to make a society based on lies and abolishing the law and democracy makes all of us a victim.
I do not seek your approval. I do not expect it because it is counter to your own faith and regardless of what is presented, no matter how many ancient artifacts are uncovered to support this theory, you will not accept it. You made that very clear in your first reactionary post regarding the subject. Speculation. I expect you to say it's BS because it's counter to your faith. You seem to offer disdain of Morey because he is critical of your faith. However, you've made no argument that it's BS, other than simply saying so. You only claim it is BS as an attempt to dismiss it as a reference. Again, you have completely discounted what I've been saying. Morey is but one in a long list of people who have made this assertion. There is far too much information there to attempt to cherry pick. Are you saying you agree with everything else, EXCEPT what Morey writes because he is critical of your faith? This is a typical muslim argument, seen often. I've never seen an atheist use it, but I've seen many muslims use it. To convince the subject that "Allah" is in the Bible. Of course, it is not and is countered quite well here: http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-bible-allah.htm I'm not interested in a red herring wikipedia definition of what the word allah means to the muslims that went through an editorial process to come up with a version of text that meets their requirements. Non responsive. Simply filler to distract from the topic at hand. Otherwise know as a red herring. Offers no argument to counter the archeological findings and historical data. I'm not familiar with any word in the English language called "OBS." Perhaps the word you are seeking is "oops," meaning "uh oh, someone made a boo boo." Non responsive. The substance of your response serves as commentary and red herrings, but offers little if anything to dispute the historical artificats and findings of others that clearly show allah in pre-islamic times was a moon god.
I chose that section of Morey statement because it showed how stupid his argument was but I invite every body to go to both sites in your posting and make the judgment by themselves. Another authoritative site that you mention "bible.ca" , instead of INTERNET, go to library ( the place that they have a lot of books) and ask for Arabic bible and see what is the word used for God, or do you think all Arabs speak English and use the word God? Arabic: الله Transliterations: Allah, allÄh Meaning: "God" as one of the words Jesus used to refer to God, e.g., in the sixth Beatitude, "Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see Alaha." And in the Arabic Bible the same words (Mt 5,8): "Ø·Ùوبَى لأَنْقÙيَاء٠الْقَلْبÙØŒ ÙÙŽØ¥ÙنَّهÙمْ سَيَرَوْنَ الله" Even if the Allah was a moon God before Islam, what that got to do with how Muslim see it? You are claiming the Muslim accept the moon God which can be very easily proved by looking at and referencing any reputable book or web site which shows this is not the case.
Again, this is speculation. It is simply your opinion that it is stupid. You seem to offer disdain of Morey because he is critical of your faith. However, you've made no argument that it's BS (and now stupid), other than simply saying so. You only claim it is BS as an attempt to dismiss it as a reference. Another attempt to dismiss this site as a reference? Offers no argument to counter the archeological findings and historical data. I'm not interested in a definition of allah. I said that previously. I also made reference to information that dispute any mention of allah in the Bible. It's not there. Offers no argument to counter the archeological findings and historical data. Non responsive. I make no such claim and am not entirely sure why you would take a strategy of such during a civil debate. There is historical evidence, which you have not refutted (offering instead, red herrings), that clearly shows that allah was the name of a moon god in pre-islamic times, up and during the time of mohammad. This coincides with the theory that when mohammad attempted to create islam, the best way he could reach people was by using a pre-existing god of the time and redefine the god to fit with what he was creating.
In one of your former posts you addressed to me personally that there is no Jesus and here you admit? Or is it the Lords Jesus' change of fade in your heart? Man, you're progressing, we pray for you for a visitation of the Holy Ghost - Amen!
You aren't very smart Arnie, are you? I am using a quote from Bible to show how historically the word was used. It got nothing to do with if I believe in Jesus or not. For your information, my view is as before that there is no historical proof that such person ever existed. As you are aware (hopefully), Bible was not written by Jesus.
New cruel tactic from terrorists in Iraq, using dogs with explosives and send them to the other side where they trigger via remote control. Americans and Iraqis are frightened and angry. Hurray and today an important step into the right direction. UK's expelling ten Muslim which are well known as preachers of hate including Abu Katada which has connection to al qaida.
Both sides keep fucking Up. Too bad for that dog, no virgin bitches are there in heaven to welcome him.
This just shows again how utterly sick these people are. Muslims hate dogs. You cannot own one, save for rare forms of security, or if you are say, disabled. According to a Muslim forum I like to frequent if a dog licks you, or touches your clothing you have to wash yourself and your clothing "seven times, one time with the earth." They consider dogs even lower than pigs, or human life. This muhamad guy must have been a complete nutcase to encourage such vile hatred. In any event it is quite easy to see why they would use dogs given their complete lack of care for them in the first place, as the quarn dictates this, again, it is no surprise.
That's right, even pigs are not as dirty as described by them. While its true that when eating pork meat we run a good chance of getting infected with various kinds of viruses but then its not because the pigs are so dirty, its becaus it comes closest to human in its biological composition. Any meat with blood including organs and indestines from any animals are not "kosher" or clean. Pigs are the most intelligent under animals Pigs have the strongest jaws (2800kg/sqcm) when they bite. Pigs are not dirty when seeking the mood, its for protection of its skin against parasites.
That's worse than sending people. People can choose (well, sort of after a brainwash), dogs and animals can't. Even Hitler loved his dog! OK, so will never ever accept that and similar religions, I love dogs, I love boxer dogs above all, but I like any existing animal more than many humans. Sorry I can't accept muslims, it's my fault, I love dogs (instead)... I am prepared to get a racist label for this, but animal have their rights too. The greatness of a country is comparable to the way animals are treated in that same country, who said that? Thank you for pointing this out, I didn't know. I wonder how many horrible things I still have to discover, and don't tell me that there aren't any!
I've tried to understand Islam, but have great difficulty when it comes to things like this, as well as ecouraging violence against anyone not Muslim. Yeah, dogs are cool. Personally I am not a huge dog fan, but I have one. A white lab that I drove 1300 miles to pick up. My dad has a Boxer. It's his third. They are cool dogs. Very well behaved! I would not be worried about being labeled a racist for stating a differing opinion. Again, I have tried to put myself in their position. I suppose one could look at the way we kill cows or chickens to eat. Even though we do, we do not send cows and chickens out with bombs, nor do we consider them dirty or low on the scale of life. Nothing in the Bible mentions that cows and chickens are bad, dirty or otherwise. They are raised specifically for our consumption so that we may live and are treated with decency and respect. I guess I cannot see a comparison there. Forget I mentioned it.