Demanding proof. That's covered in my kitman link and not unexpected. I tried to bring something to the discussion by giving you the opportunity to post scriptures from the New Testament and also showing how Christians and Jews are using either the Old or New Testament to fly planes into buildings, bomb trains, blow up subways, chop off heads, commit genocide, oppress women, etc. Instead, you chose to find those from the Old Testament. Instead, you simply chose not to make any connection to Christians or Jews using scriptures from their holy book(s) to mount terrorism. I had no less expectation. I don't, but I'm sure Mia does. I do know that despite any past, allowing a country whose religious ideology is to kill non-believers of islam to have nuclear weapons is not a wise choice. And I'm pretty confident men greater than any of us will do whatever is necessary to make sure they never have an opportunity to use. Maybe those same men can stop Iran from burying women up to their necks and stoning them to death for being raped while they are at it.
gworld, do you ever face the facts? Or do you just keep typing the first thing that comes to mind when you click this thread?
No, it means that you couldn't show any connection of Christians and Jews using scriptures to justify and commit terrorist acts against society. I submit that it also shows you have a reading comprehension problem as well. But that is merely speculation on my part. Are you still demanding proof?
Gtech; OK Gtech, I argue the same way as you do. Just for a sake of argument let's say that Gworld) I think you are an idiot, or rather say that you are an Idiot. Gtech) You answer that you are not. Gworld) I say that you are but you are trying to hide it that you are an Idiot. Gtech) You say that you have an IQ test and a degree in Physics that proves that you are not idiot. Gworld) I say it doesn't matter, you are showing all these thing to hide the fact that you are an idiot and your test and degree is just a tool to hide the fact that you are an idiot. Gtech) you say, if I am an idiot then prove it Gworld) Therefore it is proved that you are an Idiot. It is just a sample of your type of argument, I am not calling you any names, that's more of zman and yours style.
I am slowly beginning to understand how those to the far left tend to get confused. They do not read. They only see what they want to see. I did not say Jesus was better then anything. What is this grade school? I said that IMHO many Islamic Fundamentalists are threatened by the fact that there actually was someone before them. It's kinda like the "Planet of the Apes". All the elders hid the fact that "man" came before "ape" because they felt it would undermine their authority and society itself. They knew of mans plight and eventual self destruction and as such felt they were doing the world a favor by hiding mans existence. If ape knew that man existed, ape might also become like man and blow up the world. My apologies using a SciFi movie to try to explain a point, but it is perfectly fitting IMHO. Now I never said "older is better". I said Christ was first, and it pisses off many Muslims. That's a fact. Why do you think they hate Jews so much? Because they are the chosen ones, and they know it. They ruled the land for thousands of years before anyone every dreamt up Islam or the Quaran. Again, I am not saying they are better or right because they were first, but they were first, and that pisses many a Muslim off. The very notion that Jews could be the chosen ones scares the crap out of many Muslims. It threatens their entire way of life, all they have been taught and the sanctity of their very religion. Believe me I thought many times of converting to Judaism, but I believe Christ is the Messiah, so that won't float. Of course I know about the Mormons. Mormon is the FIRST book of the bible. The King James version ommitted it. Anyway, I am what I like to call a Darwin Catholic, so take it for what you may. So what point are you trying to make now? Mormons live in Utah? That's sterotyping a bit isn't it? There are a lot of Mormons here in Wisconsin. Hell there were so many at one time they named a road that their farms were on Mormon Road. But last I heard there were no Mormons out chopping off heads, flying planes into buildings, beating women, etc... as Gtech has indicated serveral times. So again, just what is your point now? WHY? Why should I? If I give you a "quote" as you call it from a "google" search does that mean you are going to bow down to me and tell me I am right? Like I said, you have had some type of traumatic event that caused you to lose faith, or you never had it. It is easy to see that you are plain angry at the world and God for whatever problems you have. So rather than move on you choose to bash that which you think does not exist. If it does not exist, why bash it? Again, I am not going to play games here. Nothing I say is going to convince you either way, so why do it? That is where you are wrong. I still believe in the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, Santa, etc. Each still exists in its own way in the minds and souls of those that believe. I took my kid to an attempt at breaking the record for the worlds longest bunny hop last Easter and his grandma dressed up like the Easter Bunny. He knew it was grandma, but every kid that was there saw the Easter Bunny, including adults. Wonder why that is? When I was a kid the Tooth Fairy left me money. I have a kid now, and will do the same for him. Does that mean I no longer believe in the Tooth Fairy? I don't think so. I must if I am continuing the tradition. I could go on, but why. Most rational people love and appreciate the world around them, including things like the Easter Bunny, silly or not. But comparing the Easter Bunny to actual flesh and blood, ie., Jesus is a bit far fetched don't ya think? Next you will want to compare him to the Boogie Man. Give it a rest. What on earth are you talking about now? The meaning of the word changed. What's your point now? Now what are you talking about? What Iranians specifically? The Persians? There were no "Iranians" like we know them today around at that time Islam did not even exist in Iran until around 641 AD during the invasion of Persia when Arabs defeated the Sassanid armies. The Turks took control in the 10th through 13th Centurys, and it was not until the latter part of the 14th Century that Islam returned again. So if you are referring to the Persian Empire, I think we are all curious to know. On a side note, it would appear that Iranians are turning to Christianity in droves. Personaly I think there is hope in Iran without war. Some of the stories I have heard over the last few years seem to indicated that most young people their love the US, freedom, and our way of life, and would like to have that there. That coupled with the fact that some 50,000+ were leaving Islam for Christianity is a sign of hope. Apparently the reason for this has been people sneaking in Satellite evangelists from the outside world showing Iranians that there is a world outside of their country.
we can never stop people from going crazy against the more civilize part of the planet..people in poorer position will alway work against you as long as we don't genetically alter our way's of thinking..history will always repeat itself not twice,not three times, but as long as humankind don't respect each other... but for my idea to slow down terror , maybe invade Saudi Arabia and take over that place. they have more money going to Terror because they are so afraid of getting overthrown.
Now what are you talking about? What Iranians specifically? The Persians? There were no "Iranians" like we know them today around at that time Islam did not even exist in Iran until around 641 AD during the invasion of Persia when Arabs defeated the Sassanid armies. The Turks took control in the 10th through 13th Centurys, and it was not until the latter part of the 14th Century that Islam returned again. So if you are referring to the Persian Empire, I think we are all curious to know. On a side note, it would appear that Iranians are turning to Christianity in droves. Personaly I think there is hope in Iran without war. Some of the stories I have heard over the last few years seem to indicated that most young people their love the US, freedom, and our way of life, and would like to have that there. That coupled with the fact that some 50,000+ were leaving Islam for Christianity is a sign of hope. Apparently the reason for this has been people sneaking in Satellite evangelists from the outside world showing Iranians that there is a world outside of their country.[/QUOTE] Iran is showing great promises of being western freindly nation. most of the young gen are pro-west, the hardliners are the older gen. which are on the most part, anti-social let the old liners die off and Iran might turn out good..Don't pay much attention to news as they are too biase..they report what needs to be sold.
Mia Does all these writing means that you believe in Jesus the same way as you believe in easter bunny or tooth fairy? A piece of fantasy or tradition as you call it? As you know very well, Persia is the old name of Iran. Persian has it's roots in a word Pars which refers to a specific group of people living in the center of present Iran. You can refer to it as Persia or Iran as you like but can you answer the question, why Jesus and Christianity wouldn't have existed without Persian/Iranians? To make it clear, I am not referring to Islamic Persia, I am referring to pre-Jesus Persia.
In time that region will colapse entirely. It is inevitable. The are going to run out of oil at some point. What else do they really have?
Some day you will figure that out for yourself. No can't. Why? Because according to you Jesus does not exist. So if he does not exist how can he "not exist" without Persia? BTW, there is not such thing as "Islamic Persia". Anyway..
From the way he bashes the US and Israel (exclusively), his hatred for God and Jesus, always demanding "proof," always defending the corrupt, always defending terrorists, I know the answer. The trick is, to go as long as you can with this line of topic without disclosing it. It's clear what he stands for and what he stands against.
Iran (Persian: ایران) is a Middle Eastern country located in Southwest Asia bordering Azerbaijan, Armenia, and Turkmenistan to the north, Pakistan, and Afghanistan to the east, Turkey and Iraq to the west. Although locally known as Iran at least since the Achaemenian period, until 1935 the country was referred to in the West as Persia. In 1959, Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi announced that both terms could be used. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran Mia Does this mean that Islam was invented after 1935? If you like to argue about words, let me to form the question like this: Do you know why the myth of Jesus and Christianity as religion could not exist without Persians? I make it little easy for you and give you a hint, look for the God Mithra. After all it will be no fun, if I give you all the answers. Next question for all of you religious people here, does anyone knows when Jesus was born?
Gtech shouts from the roof tops, Danger, Danger and rings the bells, close the gates, intelligent people are here, demanding proof.
I approximate its existence in its current form as staring around 1948. "Invent" is a good word I like that. However, around 570 AD some dude named Muhammad is born. In 610 he claims to have received revelations of the Qur'an from some angel named Gabriel. He seems to have spent most of his life in a cave praying and fasting. He claimed to be the Messenger of God and that he was commissioned by God to reveal the word of Allah. So for the next 23 years of his life he went on making up more and more revelations, which you have today known as the Qur'an. This could be argued as the beggining of "Islam" as we know it I suppose. In any event it did not exist in Iran or anywhere prior to 610 AD that I know of. I'm not arguing. I'm trying to understand what your point it. I've simply asked for clarification. No, can you tell us.. We all really want to know. Please, please show us how smart you are. Wow, you are so cool. Thank you so much for the hint. Now again, what is your point? Sorry man, to me there is only one God. If memory service Mithra was a sun God of some type from Greek Mythology that predates Christ by around 2000 years. Yes, so people had religion and believed in "gods" prior to Christ. Again, your point is? I don't think anyone really knows for sure. It was not December 25th. Do keep in mind the Calendar was a bit different back then. A normal year on the Hebrew calendar consisted of twelve lunar months of 29 or 30 days, for a total of 354 days. This is about 11 days less than a solar year (365.24 days). We use a different calendar today. So it is really hard to say with any real degree of accurarcy what the actual day/month was. Happy... Anymore brain busters?
The point was that you were wrong when you said that there was no such thing as Islamic Persia, it existed from the time Arabs conquered that country and people converted to Islam, until 1935 when the name officially was changed. the period before Arabs conquer of Iran can be refer to as pre-Islamic Persia. You were partly right about Mithra, it was God of light in Persian mythology and later was adopted by Romans as God of sun. If you study this mythology, you will find a lot of similarities to Christianity. Why? Because it is the same religion that was adapted by the opposition to Roman empire and formed the bases of present day Christianity. Do you know about the wine being the symbol of Christ blood and bread the body of Christ, that is direct adaptation from customs of Mithra worshiper. would you like to know where the Christmas tree comes from? Look at Ancient Persian decorating evergreen tree called SARVE, symbolically wrapped in colorful silk and offering for Mithra in the hopes that their prayer will be answered. Guess what is the official birthday of Mithra? Do you want a hint, 25th of December. Happy celebrating birth of Mithra on 25th of December. Let's have another question for all the believers here, why the fact that John could not read the Jewish scripture in original language and instead studied that in Greek is important and how did it influence the story of Jesus and virgin Mary?
they will, people in that part of the world are just learning about Freedom and free market. it will be a slow process. hey they have those Date (not sure if correct spelling) fruits, they can saturate the fruit market with those after the oils are gone. just wish the government would give more incentives to develop alt fuels than what they are giving now.
Is there a point to your constant attacking of Christianity? The date is not important, it's the fact that Christians celebrate this day. I can't speak for others, but I've known for as long as I can remember that Dec 25 was not the birth of Jesus. It's the day we choose to celebrate his birth. There is a spirit to Christmas. It's a time of celebrating, a time of giving to others, a time for people to be more aware of doing for those less fortunate. About the only thing I can think of that Christmas has to do with terrorism is that this time of year is more likely to have attacks by muslims in various parts of the world. I note you like to ask questions, but you don't like to answer them. Perhaps it's time for me to bring out my lengthy list of quranic verses and bookmark file of thousands of killings by muslims. Maybe we can start with Beslan? Still nothing from the New Testament? What a shame.