I don't think you're going to find a "Gotcha" here, gworld. I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing in your position. When all credibility is lost, one has nothing to lose, so formulate some questions to take the other guy down. I just don't think it's going to work. I've made my points. It was a good exchange of ideas and positions. I know where you stand and what you stand for, and likewise, you know what I stand for. Fair enough.
Gtech, While may be the purpose of your postings is "Gotcha" and other childish games, the purpose of my postings is to show the final and logical conclusions of yours and others like you way of thinking. The witch hunt of many decent Americans during McCarthy era was a shameful period of American politic that destroyed many innocent lives and was quite comparable to terror periods under Hitler and Stalin regimes. Unfortunately many of people who are cheering your way of thinking and are ready to destroy the rule of the law and throw out the Constitution in the name of security, do not understand that sooner or later the whole society will be the victim of their actions. How long will it be before Americans be declared enemy combatant and be hold without trial or proof of guilt? You may say that it will never happen but why did it happen during McCarthy era? Is there not signs that is already happening? In the words of William O. Douglas, Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court : "As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air however slight lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. " As a Canadian, I believe that US constitution is a very important historical document that is still relevant on how a government should act today but do you as an American believe in constitution? I leave you with some words from Benjamin Franklin (I assume that you know who he was): Those willing to give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither security nor liberty.
Give it a rest man. How did we end up at McCarthy? The Ben Franklin quote is also incorrect.. Just an FYI.. Here is something one of my liberal friends sent me today. I think it is fitting and quite well written. Not sure who wrote it though. Enjoy: "As an ex Viet Nam veteran I send this with deepest sincerity to the White House and pray it goes further than a shredder or the Secret Service. I can honestly say that the vast MAJORITY of voting, legal, English speaking American Citizens would agree that the situation we currently find our nation in requires a bold directive as the theoretical speech outlined below. WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO TURN ON THE TV AND HEAR ANY U.S. PRESIDENT, DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN GIVE THE FOLLOWING SPEECH? My Fellow Americans: As you all know, the defeat of Iraq regime has been completed. Since congress does not want to spend any more money on this war, our mission in Iraq is complete. This morning I gave the order for a complete removal of all American forces from Iraq This action will be complete within 30 days. It is now to begin the reckoning. Before me, I have two lists. One list contains the names of countries which have stood by our side during the Iraq conflict. This list is short. The United Kingdom, Spain, Bulgaria, Australia, and Poland are some of the countries listed there. The other list contains everyone not on the first list. Most of the world's nations are on that list. My press secretary will be distributing copies of both lists later this evening. Let me start by saying that effective immediately, foreign aid to those nations on List 2 ceases immediately and indefinitely. The money saved during the first year alone will pretty much pay for the costs of the Iraqi war. The American people are no longer going to pour money into third world Hell-holes and watch those government leaders grow fat on corruption. Need help with a famine? Wrestling with an epidemic? Call France. In the future, together with Congress, I will work to redirect this money toward solving the vexing social problems we still have at home. On that note, a word to terrorist organizations. Screw with us and we will hunt you down and eliminate you and all your friends from the face of the earth. Thirsting for a gutsy country to terrorize? Try France, or maybe China. I am ordering the immediate severing of diplomatic relations with France, Germany, and Russia. Thanks for all your help, comrades. We are retiring from NATO as well. Bon chance, mes amis. I have instructed the Mayor of New York City to begin towing the many UN diplomatic vehicles located in Manhattan with more than two unpaid parking tickets to sites where those vehicles will be stripped, shredded and crushed. I don't care about whatever treaty pertains to this. You creeps have tens of thousands of unpaid tickets. Pay those tickets tomorrow or watch your precious Benzes, Beamers and limos be turned over to some of the finest chop shops in the world. I love New York . A special note to our neighbors. Canada is on List 2. Since we are likely to be seeing a lot more of each other, you folks might want to try not pissing us off for a change. Mexico is also on List 2. President Fox and his entire corrupt government really need an attitude adjustment. I will have a couple extra tank and infantry divisions sitting around. Guess where I am going to put em? Yep, border security. So start doing something with your oil. Oh, by the way, the United States is abrogating the NAFTA treaty - starting now. We are tired of the one-way highway. Immediately, we'll be drilling for oil in Alaska - which will take care of this country's oil needs for decades to come. If you're an environmentalist who opposes this decision, I refer you to List 2 above: pick a country and move there. They care. It is time for America to focus on its own welfare and its own citizens. Some will accuse us of isolationism. I answer them by saying, "darn tootin." Nearly a century of trying to help folks live a decent life around the world has only earned us the undying enmity of just about everyone on the planet. It is time to eliminate hunger in America. It is time to eliminate homelessness in America. It is time to eliminate World Cup Soccer from America. To the nations on List 1, a final thought. Thanks guys. We owe you and we won't forget. To the nations on List 2, a final thought: You might want to learn to speak Arabic. God bless America. Thank you and good night. If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English, thank a soldier."
Mia From where do you get your view and reasoning about the world affair, playing war games on X-Box? Thank you for your posting, I think your last posting and the previous posting from Gtech has shown true nature and a complete picture of your way of thinking which makes it impossible for any decent,knowledgeable and rational person to believe or follow. Thank you again.
What a wonderful day it would be. I've long been an advocate for ceasing aid to countries that are hostile towards us. Choke that money off and watch these corrupt oil voucher taking countries start shaping up. gworld...ah, nevermind. It's the same old "terrorists have rights" and we should be more "kind and understanding" to their causes.
Gtech, You still haven't answered my question, do you believe in US Constitution as the frame work of the government or do you think it is not relevant any more and it should be replaced by a collection of Rambo movies? what is your opinion about what U.S. District Judge John C. Coughenour wrote: "I would like to convey the message that our system works. We did not need to use a secret military tribunal, or detain the defendant indefinitely as an enemy combatant, or deny him the right to counsel, or invoke any proceedings beyond those guaranteed by or contrary to the United States Constitution"
I didn't realize those were american citizens that were being held??? -nevermind, some people think we have to give them our rights but it doesn't work both ways. Maybe capturing a civilian worker and beheading them instead of imprisioning them is the way to go??? NOT.
You are correct. I do not answer to you. I might also add that you've not answered many questions I've asked. As I said before, there is NOT ONE THING you can say or do that will change my mind about being kind and understanding to terrorists. I care about my country. I do not care about terrorists rights and their rights to blow us up. What part of that don't you get?
What gets me is that we are always expected to be perfect. Looking at the history in all other nations, you see so much garbage that has gone down. However when we do something, it becomes worse.
I don't like video games.. Never have. I've never played with an X-Box. Wouldn't know one if I saw it. I liked Pong and Atari back in the day. I think I still have my Atari around here somewhere. I get my views from the world around me, experience, life's experience that is. You obviously do not like them because they differ from your views which you so regularly announce are the right ones; the only ones. I like to call the "view" an opinion. I've got one, you've got one, we've all got one. And you know what? A great many of our opinions differ. Imagine that. I'm just glad I live in a country where I can freely express them, good or bad! The major difference between you and me is not our differing opinions or world views. It's the fact that I, and a great many people in this thread actually have respect for your opinions, as well as mine and everyone else's opinions. You have no respect for anyone else's opinions. That is what makes a great many people upset with your posts. Instead of entering into a intelligent debate you would rather berate and belittle people, and call them "stupid" because they do not see the world through your eyes. Oh, you're very welcome. My true nature is that I have this uncanny ability to think for myself. I am able to form my own opinions based on facts from both sides of an issue. I am not merely tolerant of others, I make a true attempt to understand where they are coming from and ultimately base my opinions on a combination of all of the above factors, along with a bit of influence from my life's experience. If that is "true nature", so be it. I am not looking for people to follow me, and I am not looking to change anyone's mind, or believe everything I say. I am stating my opinions, at times agreeing with others as well as disagreeing with others. I guess I enjoy a good debate. However, to me, it is nothing more than a debate. I'm not an elected official. I'm not God. I'm not famous. I am not going to make a difference in the world trying to force an opinion on anyone in this forum, and that is not my intention. I'm just having a little fun expressing my opinion, while respecting the opinions of others. I don't think I have called you stupid. I may think that your opinions are a bit delusional at times, but I still respect your input. I believe I was even called a racist in this thread. The expressing of opinions an points of view is about just that. Expressing opinions and points of view. It is not about pandering, being childish, name calling, laughing "hehehehe", instead of actually contributing to the discussion and explaining why you feel the way you do. It is certainly not about being right, or wrong. It's merely a debate. Let me ask you this, or anyone on this thread. Do you go home at night pissed off by what I said? Do you go home screaming, swearing and bitching what an idiot I am? Or how dare he, what was he thinking, is he really serious? If you do, you are really taking this thread and life much too serious. Relax, have a beer, hug your kids, wife's, partners, friends, whatever. Do not let a simple measly debate on a forum on the internet consume your mind with anger and disgust. We are all after-all just having a discussion here.
Mia, tutor, debunked, Gtech It is a very simple question but it seems none of you like to answer it. Do you believe in US Constitution? It seems Gtech by his last reply, in disguise has already stated his opinion that he does not believe in Constitution, how about the rest of you? Are all of you in agreement that Constitution should be declared invalid and government should be some kind of police state in the name of security?
I'm not sure I understand your point. Every grade school child in the US knows about the US Constitution and can likely name at least one of its framers, when it was signed, and something contained in it. Are you trying to repeat the liberal banter that we are some how throwing it out the window by protecting our way of life and our citizens? Nothing could be further from the truth, at least not with the Executive branch of our government. Now as it concerns the legislative branch, that is another story. When it comes to enforcing existing laws and upholding the constitution, everything is up for interpretation when it comes to many a liberal judge. The US Constitution applies to American Citizens. End of story.
Leave the constitution alone, lets unscrewup (if it was a word) the changes that have been made by judges who want to change it (hence - throw it out the window) I would prefer it be interpreted by the intent of the writers not what feels good for today. BTW, when you ask a question like that it appears to be retorical in nature and not sincere at all because the question has no basis in the context of this thread.
What is your point? Are you trying to trap me with a "Gotcha" as Gtech has said in the past? If I say yes are you (not a US Citizen) going to point out all the places in Constitution that our president has ignored? Is that what you are after. You are not going to find anything in the US Constitution that our president has not upheld. When he took the oath of office he swore to uphold the Constitution and that is what he has done. A great many judges in the US also took that oath, but have decided it is better to make up law as they go along, rather than enforce it. From the US Constitution: "Article. I. Section 1. All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives." However we still have judges playing legislator... Thankfully we will be replacing them soon enough! Go ahead, make your point. I am not sure the US Constitution is really something you can "Believe in". It is not the Bible. It is a document outlining our form of government it. Do I support it? Yes. Would I uphold it? Yes. Would I die to insure it remains intact? Yes. Do I believe it what it stands for? YES! Do remember it is not a perfect document. That is why there have been Amendments. It is pretty close to perfect, as it has only been amended 27 times in around 230 years.
Right on the money! Exactly. We have a Judicial branch of government that likes to play Legislative and Executive. Their job is to uphold the law and enforce it, not make it up or interpret it. Laws our created by our Legislature and are not open for interpretation. The rhetorical question is designed to get a "Gotcha" out... There is some point he wants to make, but he needs to trap all of us "idiots" first so he can finally make his point. Personally I would just like to know what the point is.
Yep, the Constitution doesn't have anything to do with terrorism. gworld is looking for a "Gotcha." Just another attempt to make excuses for terrorists.
So do you think that principals of freedom, liberty and justice only applies to American Citizens and not the rest of the world? This is very funny, considering one of the excuses used by Gtech and you for the war was bringing freedom and democracy to other nations. Do you think that admitting to believe in principals and US Constitution is being an idiot and "Gotcha" factor? It is funny that I as a Canadian have more faith in US Constitution than some of the so called American "brown shirt- patriots" that like to demolish it as a mean to protect the "American way of life".
gworld, you are really grasping at straws in all of this. Make a serious point instead of trying to point out a flaw in their opinions.
I think I was pretty clear when I said the "US" Consititution applies to "US" citizens. The ideals and ideas within the constitution would (in a perfect world) be wonderful if they were embraced by all. However, they are not. We are talking about the US Constitution here correct? That is what you were asking about, correct? You were not asking me if I thought the principles of freedom, liberty and justice applied to everyone, not just Americans. You asked me if I believed in the US Constitution. There is a difference. It's your own question man, don't you remember it? Yes, bringing freedom and democracy, not the US Consititution. We have no right to impose our Consititution on others, and we have never sought to impose our Consititution on other nations. It is up to Iraq and other nations to come up with their own Consititution, which they have been writting. You do realize that, correct? I'm not sure where you find humor in this. Who is "demolishing" the US Consititution? What on earth are you talking about? I do know there are several judges on the federal level that flat out ignore it at times, but no one is demolishing it. We test it from time to time, but no one is losing faith in it, and no one is demolishing it. Again, some judges are ignoring it though. That much we can agree on anyway.