Yeah, I am on the verge of dropping out of the thread. The rationality is slipping away. That and time wise, I've gotta clean the bike. Big HD rally and my bike is a show tomorrow and Saturday.
Logic according to mia and Gtech 1-Terrorists are very, very bad, except when terrorists are friends like Israel, nicaragua contra,..... We some times also call friendly terrorists freedom fighters. 2- We should occupy countries like Iraq to make them democratic but we should also support other dictators when democratic movement is not to our taste like chile,Iran,Saudi,Pakistan,... 3- Execution of women in Iraq is bad but it is OK to execute women and children in USA. 4-Democracy in Iraq is good, as long as they don't really believe that they can make a decision that we won't like. 5-We are all for women right in Iraq, as long as the stupid women at home, don't think that they have right to decide over their own body. 6- Nuclear weapons are bad and dangerous to world peace but it doesn't mean we and our friends shouldn't have it. We just don't want the countries that we like to occupy have it. I think it is a quite good summary of their postings, what do you think?
gworld, you have lost any respect for you posting now. THAT WAS LAME. You aren't comparing equal subjects at all and you know it. I guess you can fool some people with that kind of comparison, but not free thinkers who can see past the facade. All 6 points sound like a salesman trying to sell the moon, none make sense. (At least if you're not a fool.) Don't think you can pull the wool over people at this forum that easily, you are going to have to be much more conniving than that. My youngest brother joined the air force last year and I wouldn't stop my kids from joining the military when they hit that age.
And what I have dervied is that you have a few hang ups. 1. You do not like Bush 2. You do not America 3. You only like Americans that agree with you (but you likely really don't like them anyway) 4. You have an abortion fetesh 5. You hate Jews Should I go on?
You know what Gworld, I don´t know. I Just know that in all my life religious or political discussion never changed a bloody iota of what was in the other guy´s head. Life is sad and bloody unfair sometimes and I am grateful I was born with parents who let me make my own mind up on both cases. Henny´s vid was bloody awful. I couldn´t sleep last night thinking about it. But to me it always comes down to individuals. I know some Muslim men and women. Lovely people, to whom violence is unforgivable. This thread is a terrible thing. Like I said before, a bad toothache that you can´t stop touching with your tongue. I wish all of you, who are participating here in this thread a night free from violence, from rape, from oppression and from hate.
Lie - Have never even mentioned nicaragua. Freedom fighters? You mean their freedom to blow others up and collect some virgins? At least we know what *you* stand for Lie - I made a post about being fed up with saudi and I have no problem taking action against ANY country perpetuating terrorist activity. Lie - I never mentioned anything about executing women and children in the US. I dont know of any state that executes kids. I damn sure don't know of any state that buries women up their necks and stones them to death. Lie - I said if that is their choice then it is their decision. Not only a lie, but a deliberate lie. Lie - We never discussed abortion in this thread. But it doesn't surprise me you try to use it as a moral equivalence to justify the horrific treatment of women in muslim countries. Lie - I never said any such thing. But since you want to bring it up, I would be totally against any country having nuclear weapons whose religious ideology calls for the death of everyone but muslims. I think your kitman is poor. Very poor I would be happy to recommend some sites that can help you use it more effectively. It takes practice. Thanks, it was fun! The best so far!
Same to you and everyone here. Hey, we are just discussing a controversial subject and expressing our opinions. Who are we anyway. We are not going to change each other's minds, but we are not going to beat the crap out of each other either, nor are we going to kill each other. That much I think we can all apreciate and agree on. It's nice to have a free discussion in an open forum with people from all side of an issue. Anyway, have a good night!
Thank you e10 for the nice post to all. I would hope that is the common thread we would all share is we do want peace, we do want violence to stop, we do want people to love us and not hate us. BUT, we all have to start with ourselves. I hope that nobody has taken my posts as a personal attack, I will admit my last was a little harsh, feeling like I am dealing with someone who is purposely trying to manipulate, and I hate seeing people manipulated. argghh Gworld, I hope the best for you. I do hope that you do see God for who He is. I know that He loved you enough to pay a huge sacrifice for you (like He did for me)
Thank you for your comment but I don't believe in God and that is the reason I am against violence and killing from all side. When you are dead, you are dead forever and it makes no difference how you were killed and what ideology killed you.
1- agreed, I think he is getting people killed for his own benefit. 2- not so, I studied in USA, had some of my best years there and still have a lot of friends there. As I mentioned before I love the women from California and part of Texas. 3- not necessarily but if this was true then I would have the majority as my friends since the latest polls show the majority do not agree with what government is doing. 4- I suppose respecting the rights of a woman to decide over their body is a fetish for me. I also have the same fetish for people to be able to decide over their lives, rules of the law, free elections and some other stupid fetishes. I undersatnd the people with this kind of fetishes are strange for you but it is a normal way of thinking for me. 5- You hate Jews, not true. I have many Jewish friends, I like their food and I like their music. Some of my best girlfriends were Jewish, if I have to criticize them, I would say their biggest cultural problem is feeling too much guilt about everything and I find of some of the customs of orthodox Jews like women cutting their hair and using wigs kind of strange but on the other hand I think all religious people are more or less crazy. I hope this has answered your questions about me.
All Iraqis and the rest of the world knew about the upcoming bombardment and invasion but didn't show any respect and precautions taken to save their childrens and women. Instead they used them as a shield and its therfore their guilt. At least the islamic world knows now that it doesn't work this way they speculated and people there have to stand up for their rights now, especially women and children. While women are wrapped up like Ninjas but in fact don't have any protections from their men so that they are more naked then a nude woman ever can be. At the other hand we face the ambush of islamic terrorists in its most cruel and brutal way with no respect of human lifes. Think twice and don't mix facts together. - Especially for Rob and gworld.
..or why on't we just let them get tried of bombing til they realized that those virgin women aren't really there on the paradise.
When will you Klik Revenue spammers learn? Stop spamming the serious topics with your crap that shows you haven't read the thread? Shheeeeesh
I don't know, I can't really see sending anyone I care about to get killed, or possibly maimed to help install a most likely corrupt and Islamic goverment when given the chance to vote they vote to backwards they are going to base the their society on islamic law , and put woman back in rucksacks http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,16070001%5E2703,00.html Yes I do hate bush I think he is a little millionare playing cowboy, helping out his very rich friends at the expense of average people. But I wasn't against the war in afganistan, I wouldn't be against cruise missling a couple palaces in saudia arabia. Or pretty much doing anything to destroy al queda, or bin laden. Its funny MIA, you should mention that we had to go to war with iraqi becasue it broke un reolutions Because I think they told us not to invade iraq http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3661134.stm So we are invading a country because it disobeyed the un, but we are disobeying the un by invading???? So which is it, should people obey the UN or not?
If we invaded Saudi Arabia instead, you would still hate Bush, and you would be telling us all how wrong the war was and how we should have invaded Iraq or some other place instead. You can't make a liberal happy. They take credit for anything good and take no credit for anything that is bad. It took a bit more than just the president to declare war. It took both houses of congress, populated with people from both sides. The same people on the left that supported the war, now abandon it. Need I remind everyone about the last war someone to the left got us into, which took someone from the right to get us out of? "Millionare playing coyboy, helping out his rich friends" Funny. Class envy and jealousy is a very liberal trait, typical of those that hate Bush. Bill Clinton got pretty rich at the expense of average people like my parents. I don't hold a grudge though. I just keep working to get ahead. If not for Bush, my wife and I never would have been able to afford a home. Thanks to his quick actions to head off the disasterous depression Clinton put us in, with the lowering of interest rates and a child tax credit and other tax breaks we were able to buy a house and eat. Thank God for Bush. Many went broke because of Clinton's meddleing with our economy and over taxing, double taxing and retroactive taxing, not of the RICH, but of the AVERAGE WORKING CLASS! You do remember the "recession"? Bush walked into that. Clinton came close to destroying our economy and bankrupting our entire country. Thank God Bush was here to reverse that damage! I know, I lived it. Right or wrong, we are there, support your troops and support your country. As for the UN? The US should pull out of it, and kick them out of NYC.
Probably, I don't know if I actually hate bush, but I hate what most of he and his crew stand for. I started hating them when I saw people trying to use 911 for political profit. Well screw all of them then, do you think that I like democrats? Can you please tell me what a liberal is? What traits make someone a liberal? I hate that child tax credit, someone knocks up their girlfriend and they get to pay less taxes then me, people with kids should pay more taxes. To pay for thier schools etc. I hate having to pay for your kids schools . Plus the child tax credit is like $1000 tops , what do you have 20 kids to pay for your house. I didn't really start following politics until recently, I don't really care what clinton did becasue he is not in charge now. I don't like most democrats but yes for the most part I dislike the republicans more. Although on base ideals I agree with more with them, but since they start waiving religous morality we tell you how you should live flag. I hate them.
Through all discussions, my point of view has been that violence is wrong and we should fight against it and even if we go to war, we still have to obey by the law and the international rules. I have been accused many times by Gtech, mia,... to be a Muslim or terrorist sympathizer because of my views, therefore I like to introduce them to the latest list of Muslim terrorist systematizers: Air Force, Maj. Gen. Jack L. Rives "he advisied the task force that several of the "more extreme interrogation techniques, on their face, amount to violations of domestic criminal law" as well as military law." "puts the interrogators and the chain of command at risk of criminal accusations abroad." Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina "These military lawyers were clearly disturbed by the proposed techniques that were deviations from past practices that were being advocated by the Justice Department," Rear Adm. Michael F. Lohr, the Navy's chief lawyer "Will the American people find we have missed the forest for the trees by condoning practices that, while technically legal, are inconsistent with our most fundamental values?" Brig. Gen. Kevin M. Sandkuhler, a senior Marine lawyer " Justice Department does not represent the services; thus, understandably, concern for service members is not reflected in their opinion." Maj. Gen. Thomas J. Romig, the Army's top-ranking uniformed lawyer "will open us up to criticism that the U.S. is a law unto itself." Military's Opposition to Harsh Interrogation Is Outlined U.S. District Judge John C. Coughenour "I would like to convey the message that our system works. We did not need to use a secret military tribunal, or detain the defendant indefinitely as an enemy combatant, or deny him the right to counsel, or invoke any proceedings beyond those guaranteed by or contrary to the United States Constitution" Source: sentencing of convicted terrorist Ressam What do you think Gtech, should we bring back the new version of Senator Joe McCarthy and the same way he purged the communists in 50's, purge the above Muslims from the government? McCarthyism
Throughout your discussion, your points have been to defend the attrocious actions of others with moral equivalence and make excuses to justify their actions, which I've cited often. That tells me you approve of terrorists actions and offer them sympathy and understanding. You are welcome to dispute that, but you've been caught in so many lies already, that I have no faith in anything you say. It appears you are working on a revisionist history of yourself by suggesting you have made the same assertions as those you quoted. Do you think anyone will fall for it? McCarthy was right. It took many years to finally uncover all that encompassed the McCarthy era, but in the end, he was right. Should we go back to that? Who knows what great lengths we will have to go to, to fight the war on islamic extremism. One must admit there is a problem, before they can take action. Right? Still looking for a Gotcha?