well missed out on a lot of posts, you guys got to see this boat I bought today anyways Ok so what you are basically saying is that dead civilians are part of war and should not be a big deal? Did you know that bin laden declared war on us in 98 http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/08/19/terror.tape.main/ And by your logic 9/11 is just part of that war, so you shouldn't think the civilians who died on 9/11 were a big deal either. So basically when the other side kills thousands of civilians its terrorism, an outrage , evil etc. But when we do the same thing, you don't see how its a big deal, becasue we are at war. I cannot see how any thinking person can not see the hypocrisy and ignorance of that statement. Dead civilians on either side should not be acceptable. ok lets play a little game I will post a link to reputable news source where rumsfeild (you know who he is right?) says there was no Iraqi 911 link. http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-09-16-rumsfeld-iraq-911_x.htm If you can't post a link to reputable news source that says there is a link between the two, then you can never again use the had to invade Iraqi becasue of 911 stuff again. You can still use the WMD reason if you want , even thought that has been proven false.
Why are people still actually defending islam? Pathetic, when I see the IMAMS (sp) marching against terrorist instead of rejoicing at the death of americans, I will stop equating terror with islam. We were 100% right to go to war with Iraq, the cost of life in the war was considerably less then a typical year under the thumb of saddam. Big difference though, this war is winding down, saddam was just gearing up. How muslims can defend saddams actions when he killed more muslims than anyone in recent times is beyond me. As far as palestinians and jews, I dont really think we should be involved, let them kill each other off if they are too stupid to get along. Just keep your f-ing jihad out of my country or people like me get real stupid. Wake up call anyone? Ah yes, the religion of peace....
You got an excuse for this shit? WARNING GRAPHIC VIDEO -> http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/nepal.wmv WARNING GRAPHIC VIDEO
No Henny, There are no excuses for one human being treating another in that way. The individuals who were responsible should pay for their crimes.
If you ever read what others post, you could have read in my first post in this thread that I mentioned most of these people are middle class before you even mention your Mercedes. First Post In what way killing by a bomb is worse than sending a laser guided missile on a wedding party to kill women and children? Did you see the news film about American soldier shooting a wounded man on the ground? do you admire that because he didn't chop off his head? I don't believe you really care about terrorism or peace, you are driven by personal hatred that is usually caused by personal motives. I have seen people like you before and the most usual reasons are as follows: 1- You are angry because some Arab or Muslim who lives near you has much better financially than you. It is not fair, after all this is YOUR country. 2- You have lost your job or passed over for promotion because of a Muslim. You can not blame yourself for lack of education or motivation, easier to blame the other guy. 3- Your girlfriend or wife has left you or cheated on you with a Muslim. 4- You are generally unhappy with your life and looking for outlet to aim your frustration and anger. I see that you still hinting that because I do not agree with your stupid comments, I must be a Muslim. I am not and in my opinion God and all religions belong to fantasy section of library and any one who believes in these nonsense should get his/her head examined but even if I was I could change, what can you do about your IQ?
Oh crap! I know u gave that video a warning, but omfg! I so wish I hadent clicked that link. I...have...no...words...
Ah yes, the media hasn't shown you those have they Mella, but the media will GLADLY show FULL SIZE FRONT PAGE pictures of some terrorist being "mistreated" on the end of a leash.
Yup. Cherry picking pictures and posting videos of people having their heads cut off is not giving a balanced view of a hell of allot of people. you are just showing the few bad and not the many good. I could link up some videos of some extreme racist American hate groups, that go round to this day beating blacks and Jews. That does not reflect on Americans as a whole, does it? Hell there was a program on British TV where they followed such a group going from school to school recruiting kids to join them and their views. I see one narrow minded person on this form now.. pretty sure its a minority. Nope. Not your fault, the news only report these stories, "if it bleeds, it leads" Bottom line, all you see is what you are shown and told, and only the worst bits of war get reported, I am sure there are videos of troops gunning down civilians on Iraq TV. You are only looking at the worst parts of a one sided story. 9/11 angered you? they have planes flying over their city blowing stuff up too. if you had a 9/11 event every month.. would you not want to cut of one of their heads if you captured one? Again, I do not condone any actions on either side, just the nature of war and how it is reported and supported and how peoples views tend to be one sided.
Critters, I know there are good, I have read of the children in Iraq telling soldiers were the IED's were to spare there lives, I know that there is good in everything. WHat I don't understand is where the outrage is that an entire religion has been hijacked by these thugs? Why aren't they actively hunting UBL as well? I just don't get it. As far as me being mad about my roof being blown off, of course I would be, would I be mad though if the roof was blown off in the processes of freeing an entire people? no.
I have seen the vidoes of the beheadings etc, These statements are both totally false. the war is not winding down and more people died in war , then under saddam, in the same time period. Thats not to say that more people might have died given time if Saddam had stayed in power. It will be impossible to compare the two until the war has actually ended , ecspecially hard since the U.S. deceided not to count dead civilians in the body counts http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/4078399.stm The war iraq is not winding down, it is basically a stand off. Neither side is really making progress. We will most likely be in Iraq for another 5-10 years http://www.cbc.ca/storyview/MSN/world/national/2005/06/26/rumsfeld-iraq050626.html There are a lot of areas in Iraq that have been doing really well since the war , but you don't see them much in news. So its not all bad
I hope mia doesn't mind, but I'll take this one because it's one I've discussed often and to be honest, it's so easy to counter. 20 tons of chemical weapons. That is, WMD and it was an attempt to blow up Jordan in a checmical attack that went bad. Who did they work for? None other than Zarqawi who was in Iraq prior to our invasion. http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/4/27/164917.shtml (reported in many other media outlets, this is the one from my bookmark archives from that time period) The New York Times reported that there were WMD - http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/3/13/101911.shtml -------- Iraq and al qaida http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/780plthl.asp http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/378fmxyz.asp A site with many references: http://www.spiritoftruth.org/iraqlinks.htm http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...27.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/04/27/ixnewstop.html http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5326544/ There are lots of ties there. Lest we also remember that Clinton, Kerry, Kennedy, Pelosi and many other Democrats believed there were WMD in the late 90s as well. In fact, Kerry "urged" Clinton to go to war with Iraq over it.
Its a tough one Henry, I do agree with some of your points, but most can be explained... cheering crowds for instance: I have seen videos of people looting stores on mass when there is a power cut or the police go on strike, people who would hand in a wallet if they found it on the street breaking windows and taking TV's It's called getting caught up in the moment, weather it be free TV's or Hunting down and killing a man. As individuals people are mostly passive, but its the mob mentality that as a species makes us do crazy things. Lets just agree that on both sides, innocents have been killed, injustices have been done and all in all (excluding those profiting from selling arms or moving up the political ladder) it pretty much sucks for all involved.
WOW, how ridiculous is that? Anyway those things can happen, but only in the western world, if it does happen in an Islamic country, well, totally different story, and that explains most of the difference between us, liberals included and them. The difference is that they are couple of centuries behind. Something that they still accept today is what we used to accept a long time ago, to me that's self explanatory...
alawi was having the presidents staff write his speeches so come on some guy we put in power saying this is hardly proof He says "I can’t — vouch for this." very conclusive I am sorry earlier I'm sure Saddam at one point had chemical weapons etc, wether he moved sold them etc. They were not there when we invaded. Newsmax is not a credible source, I said credible or reputable or whatever. Quoting them is like me quoting michealmoore.com, or commondreams, they are so obviouly biased they don't count either. The reason I only quote major news sources is because they are accountable and people check their facts. You can find a website on the internet that says anything if you look for minute. For news articles let try to stick to cnn fox msnbc bbc three big networks and for the record for the most part I hate muslim culture, I would be happy if any and every culture that doesn't treat all people equal, allow freedom of speech and religion was wiped off the earth.
Henry, Instead of condemning violence from all sides, you are taking a simple view of history. There was always people who used violence to achieve their goals in the past and most likely this will continue in the near future. How we judge these people depends on the out come of their actions and future political needs and coalitions. In this century, has been many people who have been labeled as terrorists in one time or another and later on they were called heroes or prime ministers. Look at history of Israel, the bomb attacks on English forces, killing the English soldiers in retaliation for punishment of their members and later on the same terrorist leader was the prime minister of Israel. Israel History How about Mandela, south Africa considered them terrorists and hunt them down but not long ago , he was the president and in most part of the world, he is considered man of courage and a hero. In regard to UBL, don't forget that in 80's he was a freedom fighter against Russian and was financed and trained by CIA. If you are for peace, condemn all violence, independent if it is bomb in back pack or laser guided missile.
Jihad and the War on Terror are two totally different things. One man declaring war on the US? Bin Laden is not a country, he is not a soverign nation, he is one man. So you are saying I can or you can declare war on anyone and it will be as just as our president declaring a war on terror? You are correct, dead civilians are not acceptable on either side. It is an unfortunate and horrible "casualty of war", to use a cliche'. But we did not bring this on our nation. We were attacked. We have a right to defend ourselves. One can only hope that only the bad guys are taken out. But do remember that those doing the civilian killing are terrorists. They do it intentionally. The US is not in the business of killing civilians. You would not believe the care and time that is taken in todays modern warfare in an attempt to minimize or eliminate civilian casualties. Todays military is not blindly dropping bombs from B-17's over general population or industry targets were civilians work, nor are they dropping atom bombs anymore. No one wants to see an innocent person become a victum in this. But my statement that "I don't care" still stands. It is not that I do not care about civilians being killed. I don't care about the argument. Again, we are doing all we can to avoid killing innocent people. Look at how many of our young men and women are giving of themselves and their lives in some cases to insure that the innocent in this can share in FREEDOM! Why play games with the truth. No there was NO link between Saddam and 9/11. Who ever said that there was? Not the Bush admin. Go find me a reputable link that shows anyone in the Bush admin, including Bush saying there was. We did not invade Iraq because of oil. We did not invade Iraq because of a 9/11 link. We did not invade Iraq to redeem Bush Sr. We did not invade Iraq just for the heck of it. We invaded Iraq because Saddam refused to let UN inspectors in the country, refused to show us he had no WMD's, refused to act after 14 resolutions and 12 years of pandering by the weeklings at the UN. That's why we invaded Iraq. To remove Saddam and any capabilities he had to create WMD's. We achived that goal and the world is a better place because of that. Do keep in mind that we are at War. A War on Terror. And the goal of that war is to seek out terrorists and the countries that harbor them. Saddam was a terrorist (NO I DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT 9/11, though someone is going to have to bring it up), and Saddam harbored terrorists, including, yes, Bin Laden. No, Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 but everything to do with terror. We did not wage a war on Bin Laden, we waged a war on terror, and that includes all terror nations. Do you really think we are going to stop at Iraq? We still have Korea and Iran to contend with next on the agenda.
Which is where I stand as well. Those that want the terrorists to win don't even take into account what the Iraqi people want. That they want freedom, that they are a good people. What always amazes me is, I stand behind the war and I want Iraqis to have freedom, rights and a good life. God knows how they've been terrorized over the last 50 years. Then you have the self-centered liberals who don't have a clue, who claim to be against the war. Instead, whether directly or indirectly, they'd just as soon crap on these people and let terrorists win and dictate to the people. These very people claim to be about human rights and "we have to stop the killing" etc. They never take into account what the people want. I'm pretty sure they don't want terrorists blowing up their kids on the street, like what happened a few weeks ago. It is the proof that others look for when they say "not all are bad." No kidding, who says they are? We've seen great acts of kindness from the Iraqi people. We're not at war with them. We're at war with virgin seeking terrorists looking to ensure they get a one way ticket to heaven. And we're trying our best, along with the Iraqi Police and Army to do the job. But no, some are so self-serving that they only think about the "no war" chant of the day which they think makes them look peaceful. In fact, it makes them look as though they want the terrorists to win and start butchering the Iraqi people. What sort of good book do I find the rationale for that kind of wishful thinking? How is wishing the worst for a good people about caring for others. And they have the nerve to throw out "racist and bigot."