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What can you do with ASP?

Discussion in 'C#' started by Kuriyaki, Apr 2, 2008.

  1. #1
    Sorry, haven't been too familiar into web development languages but am wanting to learn.

    What is the possibilities of ASP?

    Where can I learn ASP?
    SEMrush
    What sites use ASP?

    What is the differences between ASP and ASP.NET?

    Thanks.
     
    Kuriyaki, Apr 2, 2008 IP
    SEMrush
  2. nubsii

    nubsii Peon

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    #2
    Kuriyaki,

    I can answer one of those 4 questions: ASP vs ASP.NET

    ASP is pretty much like HTML except you can have scripts in it that run on the server, its main function is to dynamically edit/change/add content to a webpage, handle form submissions and allow for event-driven GUIs (an over simplified summary of asp)

    Where ASP.NET differs is that it takes the functionality of ASP and puts into the .NET platform. What this basically means is that you can do the things that ASP used to do, but you can write the code for those things in VB.NET C# J# etc. I think the main idea is that all these languages turn into the CLR (common language runtime) so you access this new "ASP Functionality" from any of them. These are just details though, most people treat ASP.NET as the next iteration of ASP (it is) and define the differences as the new features in ASP.NET. I don't know all of those new features but here's a few off the top of my head: faster code, new error handling, ASP.NET mimics windows applications in its use of buttons/controls etc, being able to code in multiple languages (as mentioned), new caching stuff, better XHTML output (at least in asp.net 2.0).

    I hope that was helpful.

    Cheers
     
    nubsii, Apr 2, 2008 IP
  3. AstarothSolutions

    AstarothSolutions Peon

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    #3
    Many many sites use ASP and ASP.Net - MySpace is one of the largest sites using ASP.Net at the moment outside of Microsoft themselves

    Classic ASP is a scripting "language" (similar to PHP) where your code is written mixed in with your HTML. Unfortunately it didnt have the greatest amount of built in functions and adding new elements required objects being registered on the server meaning with shared hosting if they havent added a 3rd party component to do what you want there is a slim chance that they will add one for you.

    .Net is a true object orientated programming "language" (actually a framework but will use language as everyone does) which can be used for desktop, server or web application development.

    What can you do with them? Anything you like ultimately, with the caveat of having to install components for classic ASP.
     
    AstarothSolutions, Apr 3, 2008 IP
  4. Kuriyaki

    Kuriyaki Peon

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    #4
    Sounds great. Thanks for the prompt and detailed responses. Will probably look forward to them.
     
    Kuriyaki, Apr 3, 2008 IP
  5. ASPMachine

    ASPMachine Peon

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    #5
    Kuriyaki, I like only ASP so why I have made my nick name ASPMachine. With ASP, you can make a Search Engine, Directory, PPC Advertising system and anything what you want. Just check my website "http://borolook.com", you will find your answers.

    This whole website is designed and scripted (ASP) by me alone and Java Crawler is programmed by my brother.
     
    ASPMachine, Apr 26, 2008 IP
  6. mg1313

    mg1313 Peon

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    #6
    Classic ASP will die slowly, slowly...better switch to ASP.NET...if you think about your future...
     
    mg1313, Apr 27, 2008 IP
  7. ASPMachine

    ASPMachine Peon

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    #7
    ooh really? Let me know some brief note about ASP die. Do you know my server script and type?
     
    ASPMachine, Apr 27, 2008 IP
  8. mg1313

    mg1313 Peon

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    #8
    Whether you accept it or not ASP classic will die...ASP.NET is the future...it's like Windows '98 and now you have Vista...you won't hear about Win '98 in 5-10 years...maybe in the history books...it won't count anymore...
     
    mg1313, Apr 27, 2008 IP
  9. mg1313

    mg1313 Peon

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    #9
    I've programmed this website http://www.buchgourmet.com in ASP classic too...but that doesn't mean I have to hold on an old language which will be replaced eventually by his BIG and powerful brother ASP.NET...

    You can make seach engines, PPC advertising, etc,etc in ASP.NET...or in other languages....
     
    mg1313, Apr 27, 2008 IP
  10. ASPMachine

    ASPMachine Peon

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    #10
    Thanks guy for this information. I will discuss with my brother in this matter.
     
    ASPMachine, Apr 28, 2008 IP
  11. dylanj

    dylanj Peon

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    #11
    It's going to take a long time for classic ASP to die out completely. New web apps are still being built in classic ASP, and they're still looking good. You see, at the end of the day, it's the client's problem. If your website does what they want it to do, then there's no problem. From what i've seen, ASP VBScript websites offer very similar user functionality to .Net websites.

    Also, forgive me if i'm wrong, but, upgrading to Vista hasn't actually made my life any easier. I think this would be the same for coding in ASP.net. No matter how great the coding system is, I still have to put in a rather similar amount of work.

    I had a look at http://www.borolook.com/. I have to say, it looks quite nice. A few more ASP VBScript websites:
    http://www.dt.net.nz/
    http://www.smallbiz.net.nz/
    http://www.w3schools.com/
    http://www.readingcinemas.co.nz/

    I would like to hear opinions on mine :)

    Cheers,
    Dylan
     
    dylanj, Apr 28, 2008 IP
  12. saurabhj

    saurabhj Banned

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    #12
    I agree with you Dyan. Even RentaCoder.com is also running in ASP :D
     
    saurabhj, Apr 28, 2008 IP
  13. mg1313

    mg1313 Peon

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    #13
    I didn't say it will die overnight...but in the end it will die, especially if MS decides to stop including it in the ASP.NET engine they have now...

    At the end of the day IS NOT the client's problem, sorry to disagree. You have to think for the future too (because the client doesn't know about the technology). If MS stops supporting ASP classic what your client will do?? Pay again for another coder to convert to ASP.NET??

    If you are JUST a coder then that's fine, you code whatever the client says (even if the client doesn't know what he is talking), you get your money and that's it...but you have to be more than that...there are tons of coders out there (you can be easily replaced by freelancers from other parts of the world)...but people who code and think outside the box aren't that many...you have to view your code from diifferent angles...
     
    mg1313, Apr 28, 2008 IP
  14. mg1313

    mg1313 Peon

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    #14
    Yep...I'm wondering why Microsoft converted most of their site from ASP to ASP.NET :)..do they know something we don't :)?

    I'm wondering why on job sites you can find now more jobs on ASP.NET than ASP classic? Is there more work for ASP.NET maybe ;)?

    I can bet with you Rentacoder will convert to ASP.NET in the future (who knows, maybe they are already in the process of converting and you don't know it yet...).
     
    mg1313, Apr 28, 2008 IP
  15. dylanj

    dylanj Peon

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    #15
    I have to say, I don't hold any grudges against ASP.Net. However, there are a few reasons I don't use it:

    1. You really have to have Visual Studio to make a decent website in .Net. Although i'm quite familiar with Visual Studio, I prefer Dreamweaver. Also, you can't really design websites with Visual Studio - you can only put the code behind them. Both Classic ASP and PHP support 3rd-party editors such as Notepad++ or Dreamweaver.
    2. I like the fact that Classic ASP is so basic. It's a lot easier to work with. For me, i've always had problems getting Visual Studio to work perfectly. Something always goes wrong. With Classic ASP, you have access to all of the source code, so when you get an error while building, you know that it can be one of two things: your code, or your IIS setup. Of course, from what i've heard, PHP is a little similar in this regard.
    3. I don't really understand what makes a Classic ASP interface so bad. As I said in my last post, if the website does what the client wants it to do (or it exceeds their expectations) and looks good, then there's no problem. A visitor to the website is not going to leave because the file extension for each page is .asp rather than .aspx.
    4. I don't know if it's just me, but i've always found that PHP and .Net load slower than others. I've figured out that there seems to be a hell of a lot more HTML source code in a .Net application than in a Classic ASP website. To explore this, I went to three websites. One was a PHP CMS website, one a .Net CMS website, and one a Classic ASP CMS website. The page size for the PHP website (Excluding images) was 23.75 KB, the page size for the .Net website (Excluding images) was 20.49 KB, and the page size for the Classic ASP website (Excluding images) was 5.86 KB. Big difference...

    There are more reasons, but I don't have the time to write them all out.

    What I would really like to know, is the explanation behind the page sizes. Also, what makes .Net so much better than ASP VBScript. If it's not the interface, and it's not the page size, then what is it? Sorry, but at the end of the day I think that the most important person is the client's customer. Whoever's at the receiving end of the application.

    I'm tired, so chances are I may have written something obviously stupid. Anyway, I would like to hear a reply to all of this.

    Cheers,
    Dylan
     
    dylanj, Apr 29, 2008 IP
  16. mg1313

    mg1313 Peon

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    #16
    You're right about Visual Studio althought there are some editor other than that (like Webmatrix which is simpler than Visual Studio, or Genwise, or ASPexpress, or evem Dreamweaver has support for ASP.NET). Read here a comparison: http://www.aspnetpro.com/opinion/2002/10/asp200210pl_o/asp200210pl_o.asp


    Well, try other editors...there's not only VS (althought it's the most complete one).

    Yes, PHP it's like ASP classic...not need of fancy VStudio...

    I didn't say it's bad :)...I said it's not the future anymore. Less and less people will know ASP...less and less support will be there...and your client will risk having an obsolete website (technologically speaking) which sooner or later he will have to change it.

    When you develop a website, like i said, you have to think about the future too...like you think: will be the site scalable? Is the database I chose a good choice? and so on...you have to think about the technology too: is this client going to have web presence 10 years from now one? Will this site become more complicated in terms of features? (the more complicated the more time you will spend converting it to newer technology)

    You don't expect the client to know what he wants...for him, anything which works it's good (you can have very bad code behind -ASP or not - the client doesn't care). You should know what he wants and translate that in a viable technology (long term viable if possible). If you don't care about the client because you take the money and then bye-bye well, in my opinion, that's not a good strategy in the long term. You should put yourself in the client's shoes...

    Like I told you, coders are everywhere...true consultants not that often...

    Those 3 CMS sites you tried I bet they are NOT the same :) coded in 3 different languages...how the site is coded depends on the coder...if he is a bad coder he can have spaghetti code and HTML thrown all over the place...if he is an organized coder then the things ca be improved (regardless the language you code in).


    So, if at the end of the day it's the customer, then why Honda and Toyota strives to make such good cars?? Which seem to last forever? Why not make crappy cars?? As long as the client got the car and runs out of the dealer's yard then it's not the manufacturer's problem anymore!! Doesn't matter if the car breaks down after a week...hey, I made a sale! I don't care from now one :)...

    Why the car technology didn't remain the same as 60 years ago?? Do you think that anybody, besides collectors, will buy a car from '50 to use it in every day's life??

    Everything evolves...and the software development isn't any different...
     
    mg1313, Apr 29, 2008 IP
  17. saurabhj

    saurabhj Banned

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    #17
    Everything that is possible with ASP (Yeah it is ASP not ASP.net), I will do that.
     
    saurabhj, Apr 29, 2008 IP
  18. mg1313

    mg1313 Peon

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    #18
    Good luck then in the future :)!
     
    mg1313, Apr 29, 2008 IP
  19. dylanj

    dylanj Peon

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    #19
    You're right, they weren't the same CMS. The point I was trying to prove, was not what you think. Basically, I went and looked at 3 popular CMS's (One in ASP.Net, one in ASp VBScript, and one in PHP) and that is what I based my opinion on.
    The three CMS's:
    http://www.dotnetnuke.com/ (ASP.Net)
    http://www.joomla.org/ (PHP)
    http://www.dt.net.nz/centrepiece/ (Classic ASP)
    People still use old cars, and people still use old computers. Of course, nobody would use a broken car, but old is different from broken. An ASP VBScript website is old, but if it still works, then what's the problem? Sure, things sometimes break, but, like a car, everything will always need servicing.
     
    dylanj, Apr 29, 2008 IP
  20. mg1313

    mg1313 Peon

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    #20
    You're right here but what I was trying to say is what is Microsoft decides that starting from 2010 the ASP classic engine won't be included in the future ASP.NET engine and web server? (they can do that like they took out the support for Win 95-98)

    So, basically, they take out the fuel of a car :)...the old car would be pretty much useless (or you have to find another engine which runs on another fuel) and you have to upgrade to a new car...see my point?
     
    mg1313, Apr 29, 2008 IP