what about fake buyers on elance who create feedback for themselves and increase there ratings using fake methods. For example i post a project my self or with a friend and then give money and rate the project by my friend and my friend gives me review. Thanks
Always ask for a deposit if you are unsure, or at the very least get all or a portion of the money placed into an escrow account.
i have experience this too, the buyer want me to give him 30 list of gmail account after that he the account work good, he will hire me. i made 30 gmails but use for myself after contacting the person and not replying back with my emails, as he ask me to send the email accounts to his email, so i decide not to send it. lucky me that guy wont run away with gmails
i am asking for the buyers and providers who make feedback for themselves and create ratings for themselves.
here is the thread you may get and idea of what i am saying. What about fake buyers on elance The Conference Room what about the fake buyers on elance what elance has done in taking actions against fake buyers who make fake reviews and make business from elance how elance will caught them does elance has taken steps in this regard. « Help these providers post the jobs correctly. I'm wasting contacts dealing with some of these... changing a bid when the bidding time´s closed » » edit | add new comment | inappropriate? 49 Replies Jun 1, 2010 1:23am pthalodezin There are no current rules against what you are calling fake buyers. I am not sure what you mean by "who make fake reviews" as in order to leave feedback the supposed fake buyer would have to pay the provider making them a "real buyer"?? Using the Elance system to do market research, find relevant pricing information or in combination with other talent search methods is not against the system rules and even though many providers dislike this practice will never go away. I have submitted suggestions to minimize this practice and to encourage more active (hiring) buyers, but Elance has no response to date/.... See User Voice » reply | inappropriate? Jun 1, 2010 1:28am arslan220 by fake buyers i mean the buyers who know the other provider and make just project just for making his review good for example if a provider is new and he tells a fake buyers to make a new project and the fake buyer makes a new project and he knows he want to select him as a provider he does nothing but upload the data after the given time and makes his review for just sake of getting more work on elance. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 1, 2010 1:45am pthalodezin Do you have documented proof that this is happening? I have thought this may be happening as well, but have no proof. Also understand that a project must be marked as complete and be paid for before a provider can receive feedback. Do you have a link to a project that you feel has been awarded in this fashion? » reply | inappropriate? Jun 1, 2010 1:48am arslan220 This is happening i know a person who did that they made a buyer and got the reviews listed for him by the buyer. Dont elance knows these sort of cases. I dont have documanted proof for this sorry but that did happened they made fake reviews. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 1, 2010 2:41am pthalodezin If you know of an infraction of the TOS and are not reporting it, I have a feeling that Elance might take issue with that and you could get in trouble. So if you are being honest here and not seeing how you can set up this scam yourself, I would advise sharing what you know with Elance. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 1, 2010 1:58am SWDetroit Surely you realize that the true cost for doing what the OP opined would just be the Elance 6% commision and the 2.75% financing charge. Not a king's ransom on, say, a $100 "project"--$8.75. Half that for a $50 "project." » reply | inappropriate? Jun 1, 2010 1:59am arslan220 can a person do that making fake reviews on his provider account and elance does nothing to stop that. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 1, 2010 2:04am SWDetroit Just get another account. Or have a relative, friend, etc. step in as portraying a bona fide buyer. Use your imagination. Doubtful that providers would be so foolish and use single accounts, thus blowing their cover. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 1, 2010 2:06am arslan220 you mean to say that they can be caught doing that. » edit | reply | inappropriate? Jun 1, 2010 2:40am pthalodezin Saying that it is possible and stating the obvious that it won't cost much money is one thing. Unless you can prove that it is happening, then there is no point discussing it. Building a business through cheap methods like this isn't a sustainable practice and won't yield good results in the end. I somehow doubt that there are many providers out there pulling this stunt. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 1, 2010 2:51am SWDetroit "Cheap" here has two meanings. Indeed, it would be cheap for a newbie to garner 100% favorable feedback--about $5. If anybody does that, who cares? It ain't my race, and I have no horse in that race. Take that up with the OP who believes that might be the case. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 1, 2010 2:56am pthalodezin The creation of fake jobs and awarding them to yourself is a violation of the TOS and just plain bad business. By doing this, a provider would also be sullying the Elance brand and therefor the image of every provider on the site. Elance conceals the algorithm used to calculate the rating points in order to prevent manipulation of the system. From that we can assume that Elance wants a fair marketplace. If what the OP is stating is happening, then the system is being manipulated and this is no longer a fair marketplace. That is why you should care. It is your race if you are trying to get work here. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 1, 2010 3:00am arslan220 yes it is really happening and i think not all of the person are doing that but elance should take more steps to prevent that. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 1, 2010 4:17am pthalodezin Help us all out here and provide a link to a job that you are accusing the provider of creating a fake buyer account to perpetuate this violation. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 1, 2010 5:01am arslan220 i dont know about the job link but the provider has done that. but again i will say is it too difficult to catch those why dont elance make a system to catch those. » edit | reply | inappropriate? Jun 1, 2010 6:22am SWDetroit I do not approve of that, but what should I do about that? I have absolutely zero means to detect any of that, so why should I waste any of my time and effort on hypotheticals? In this matter, I am simply like the other 100% (rounded up) of Elance service providers... Your previous post: Saying that it is possible and stating the obvious that it won't cost much money is one thing. Unless you can prove that it is happening, then there is no point discussing it. Building a business through cheap methods like this isn't a sustainable practice and won't yield good results in the end. I somehow doubt that there are many providers out there pulling this stunt. Make up your mind instead of initially stating that it probably does not happen, then a few hours later you get your underwear in disarray about it. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 1, 2010 6:55am arslan220 by this anyone can take benefit of this weather he can generate business or not. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 1, 2010 10:12am sitcom I'll take the OP's word that this practice has occured .... but I doubt it happens regularly. After all, what's the point? Unless you spend BIG money on finder's fees and finance fees, your phoney track record won't get your very far vis-a-vis your competitors. In W&T, the vast majority of providers are ranked between 1 and 5 and have at least three feedback reviews. So, even if you conducted a half-dozen fake transactions worth $4,500, you'd still rank at only 4 or 5 -- leaving you to compete against PLENTY of providers with better lifetime earnings and feedback reviews. AND, you would still have the same number of portfolio samples (presumably very few) to back up your proposals. Fake transactions would only help you lift yourself from the ranks of utter and total newbie, but would do little else. pete » reply | inappropriate? Jun 1, 2010 10:53am Grace-Alexander I don't have a link for this anymore - I posted it at the time that I had it - but I saw a buyer and provider account with the same weird alphanumeric name (on one the word was first, then the four digit number, and on the other it was reversed) and the buyer awarded several projects to the provider and left outrageous over the top sickly sweet feedback - it was obviously manipulation of the system. Reported it, of course never heard back, checked back a month later, provider account still there. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 1, 2010 10:30pm bledpub A couple of months ago I was awarded a job that didn't really go anywhere. It was a terrible experience all around and I ended up canceling the job and refunding the money. After working non-stop on the project for days (the buyer had totally misrepresented the amount of research involved in it) I got a message from the buyer stating that I was obviously outsourcing the material and that it was also obvious that English was not my first language. (I'm from Kentucky and have a thick accent so this might have been understandable if he had actually ever heard me speak What was interesting about all of this is that the messages that I got from the buyer were all signed by a couple of different people. One of them had a very unique name and when I started doing some investigating I found that the bulk of their projects had been awarded to a provider with that same unique name. of course, they gave THAT provider glowing feedback every single time. I reported it to Elance as being suspicous and soon the provider's account was deleted-but not my buyer's. So yeah, something was definitely going on there. Elance handled it, though, I canceled the project and saved myself a headache. It all worked out in the end. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 1, 2010 10:50pm JeanL Hi Bledpub, Elance swears it is impossible to have 2 accounts with them (but I personally have worked with a buyer that had 2 accounts that I am aware of),,,I have also seen a provider who was suspended and her name was xxx2009, she had horrible feedback, ran when she got her milestone payments and wouldn't finish her projects,,don't know if that was why she was suspended or if she closed her account. Now she is back and bidding like crazy with a different name (it is the same name as before only now it is xxx2010, and she is doing the same thing all over again. This is response to your above statement about the names. Elance has told me I could not open up a buyer's account under a different name; that if I open up a buyer's account, I would have to use the same user id I'm currently using. This is what I find interesting but I think unfair as well. If a provider gets suspended and you click on their names from within a project posting (where they bid or were invited), it leads you to a web page saying that provider is no longer available on Elance; a page similiar to a web page when they shut down a project. It is a one line statement. However, I recently had a buyer who didn't pay me for the last week I worked, I filed a dispute, but it was hourly and before the Work View thing started. There wasn't a dispute over anything, she didn't dispute my hours, nor the work I did nor the appointments I set for her,,,she simply disappeared and quit responding to messages and quit paying. I won't go into details here, but I had proof she was getting the messages and just not responding, plus she owed me for 1 week and 1 day for the next week. When I messaged her and told her I was filing a dispute for my money, she paid for the 1 day, but not for the week before,,,so by those actions alone, Elance knew there was not a dispute over quality, work or anything. This is what I find strange,,,Elance told me they suspended her account, but if you click on her, she still shows up,,,where a provider account says they are no longer active. So I have come to the conclusion, Elance does not suspend them to where you would ever know it,,hence,,,no message like a suspended provider account. Based on that information,,,we really have no way of knowing if buyers accounts get suspended or not,,,because they don't magically disappear like the providers account does. There have been other instances lately where the provider was flipping her projects and then listing them and hiring other providers to do the work at a lower price,,,I notice the provider account "is no longer active on Elance" but yet her buyer account looks active. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 2, 2010 8:44am HarperCo Maybe the buyer is suspended from posting projects, but active so they can pay what they owe. Nicki » reply | inappropriate? Jun 8, 2010 6:27pm JeanL I don't have a clue why she is logging into Elance on a daily basis as her buyer account only shows a few projects were posted and none of them was awarded, so she is not logging in to pay. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 2, 2010 2:57am SWDetroit The gain is potentially there for those providers who have yet to land their first few projects. So, one scenario would be to have two or so friends, relatives, whatever set up accounts, award a single project each for a token amount. And of course, give high praise about that provider. That is one manner to game the system and get a foot in the door. Who really cares about Elance's levels and all anyway? If levels were the overriding parameter, then nobody would ever land their first awarded project. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 2, 2010 8:32am HarperCo I remember an allegation on the WC some months ago that a "ring" of providers/buyers was awarding one another projects in just this way. Doing that certainly "dis-evens" the playing field for those with the "New Provider" icon. Nicki » reply | inappropriate? Jun 2, 2010 8:45am sourcedesign I have said before that Elance could be investigating suspicious behaviour through the IP addresses, cookies, statistics, money transfers and other software devices. For instance, you have a provider with an IP address in a small town and then he starts getting jobs from IP adresses in the region, you would suspect, wouldn't you? But do they do it? I doubt it. Google can probably find out what colour of underpants you are wearing if you put your laptop on your lap. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 2, 2010 10:49am SWDetroit Having somebody in another state could easily escape detection. Even five in five different states or even countries would be hard to spot. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 2, 2010 11:48am arslan220 yes i think so it can be done but as the other person said that having five reviews or three reviews is not a big thing on elance because you have many to do competition with. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 2, 2010 11:49am arslan220 but elance has to take steps to stop that they have to create tight systems for that. » edit | reply | inappropriate? Jun 3, 2010 6:40am sourcedesign If you are in California, how do you find accomplices in crime in far away places, especially in other countries, considering that most jobs come from the USA? » reply | inappropriate? Jun 3, 2010 7:18am Dr_Mike_C I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you... I hesitate to answer this one for fear of encouraging cheats, but it is so obvious that there's no point in being coy. If you know confederates in other regions, then you ask them, by e-mail say, to post jobs and award them to you. You then give a job to another member of the cartel who, in turn, awards to the next guy. Each of you poneys up 50 bucks and pays Elance's 8.75% - $4.38 for one mega feedback score. If you are a poor schmo who doesn't have any scheming friends, then you post the job on Freelancer, or O desk and need to invest more cash probably. Where there is a system, there will always be ways to play it. Decent providers don't need to do this because we have the talent to get work on merit. Just think of all those "students" posting jobs to get their homework or assignments done - it might work in the short term, but sooner or later you get called upon to put your money where your mouth is and deliver. If you have only got into the position by cheating, chances are that you won't be able to deliver and will have some serious explaining to do. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 3, 2010 9:29am SWDetroit One could simply PayPal somebody almost anywhere the $50 to post a phony job, and then collect the net proceeds of a bit over $45. You could do that a dozen times and only be out less than $60, total--for getting a dozen gigs with gold-plated 5s to your credit. And if the typical 20 bid on each such bogus project, at a cost of around 50 cents a connect, Elance's revenue would be about $15: $5 for their commission and $10 from the connects--all but 50 cents of the connects from those suckered into bidding. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 3, 2010 5:01pm rosamond OR, Elance could join the cheaters and send a message that all files must go thru the system before money or feedback is released, and the elance SWAT team is watching!! New providers might not know how serious they are. I think some well-place, in your face warnings might do some good. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 3, 2010 5:23pm sourcedesign A "cartel of cheats". Haven't you heard that the only way to commit a perfect crime is to do it on your own because if you have even only one accomplice, he will eventually betray you by the very nature of the kind of people they are. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 3, 2010 5:53pm Dr_Mike_C You've obviously never studied any aspects of corporate finance! It is hardly a criminal endeavour; just gaming the system - besides, it is highly unlikely that Elance would act against these people if it required any form of investigation. Just look at how many of the featured projects break TOS. Unless it became a major problem, Elance would turn a blind eye to it. Despite a great deal of complaint from the folk that pay the bills, nothing is being done to address provider concerns over ranking or levels, according to what has been posted. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 4, 2010 11:08am sourcedesign You've obviously no sense of irony. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 4, 2010 4:59pm Dr_Mike_C Irony: a. The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning. b. An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning. c. A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect. What part of your comment was meant to be ironic? » reply | inappropriate? Jun 5, 2010 5:33am sourcedesign You've obviously no sense of humour Reply: "The correct definition of humour is......." » reply | inappropriate? Jun 8, 2010 6:30pm JeanL Post a project on Elance stating your requirements and I guarantee you, someone will bid on it. Legal or not! » reply | inappropriate? Jun 3, 2010 5:19pm margorodko I thought this might be an interesting thread, but I couldn't read it because it's so hard to read your posts. Can you please put some periods in your sentences? » reply | inappropriate? Jun 3, 2010 5:25pm sourcedesign For that, I would need to hire a writer here in Elance and if he did a good job I would give him a brilliant feed-back » reply | inappropriate? Jun 4, 2010 4:41pm margorodko sourcedesign, Your grammar and run-on sentence gave me a chuckle, but my comment was intended for arslan. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 5, 2010 9:57am sourcedesign Let me take a wild guess, you are a school teacher » reply | inappropriate? Jun 9, 2010 10:24am elance_jon @Arslan220 - Elance monitors this type of activity through various means and considers it to be a serious violation, resulting in immediate account termination. Someone from our investigations team will contact you for more details. @JeanL - We will also contact you today regarding the 2010 provider. Jon » reply | inappropriate? Jun 10, 2010 5:16am JeanL Hi Jon, Ok, I guess we are all aware of shady things going on, or I should say we suspect shady things, but since we can't see your side of Elance, we can not prove much. I can however, furnish you the name of the above mentioned provider with the extension of 2009 & 2010. She even states on her profile for 2010 some of her past accomplishments and names a project she won on Elance which should give someone a clue because she doesn't have a history under the 2010 name. However, the last time I glanced at her, she obviously was awarded a project and probably never knew it. It showed she had not signed in for several days and is showing in dispute status. She probably ran out of connects as I haven't seen her bidding lately. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 13, 2010 11:10am SHS I have seen a buyer and provider who have similar names, the buyer only uses that one provider and has paid $6 for 2 projects, one of which was quoted $50. On a separate note, what does happen when you click the violation button? SHS » reply | inappropriate? Jun 13, 2010 11:13am Dr_Mike_C You get an automatically generated e-mail thanking you for taking the time and that'll be the last you hear of the matter. If you want to know what happens, you need t put a project on the "Watch List" or look at the provider/buyer profile in this case. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 13, 2010 11:17am JeanL Write an explanation in the box and let Elance play detective. You won't be able to tell if the buyer's account has been suspended but you will definitely know if the provider's account is suspended. If you click the Provider's name---you will get the one liner---Provider no longer active on Elance Suggestion: add the buyer to your Watch List,,,,,then a day or so from now,,,,go to their Profile and click on the project that shows it was awarded to this Provider,,,and see if Providers profile stays active. » reply | inappropriate? Jun 13, 2010 11:38am SHS Thanks for the replies. I am going to put them on my watch list because it looks very suspicious. The provider looks real enough but the buyer doesn't. The provider has a very bad review early on (rightly or wrongly) so maybe that's why. » reply | inappropriate?
Elance states that if a buyer does not fund an escrow project, it is not their responsibility. I don't understand what policies they have for safeguarding the interests of the providers.
do you think this kind of suspicious activity is happening on elance and if it does in large number will elance be able to stop these.
I know exactly what you mean. Lots of that going on at elance and other freelance project sites. It's a really dishonest way of doing business if you ask me. It would be pretty tough to do something about it as a service provider though because it's difficult to differentiate between a fake buyer and a real one. They could however check the PMB and progress reports to see if everything looks genuine and suspend service providers who indulge in this type of dishonest activity.
I know this thing is happening but i ask you, Why would Elance stop it? Elance is getting its fee once the payment is made so they are not bothered if its scam or real. They have that check in place that you have to release the payment before leaving the feedback. If somebody is paying to get the rating up then I don't think Elance will ever do anything about it.