100% ACK! It just makes no sense to me to outlaw a part of nature. The same goes with magic mushrooms...i can't understand how a plant can be declared 'illegal'.
I don't smoke anymore ( or any less ) then I use to, but, I think if you are in your home, you don't drive, and you aren't hurting anyone but yourself....whats the fu**ing problem? I swear to god, someone said we have the highest incarciration(sp) rate in the world and yet we are supposed to be the only truly "free" country. I would love to know the percentage of these that are drug related.
Izo - Oleanders are poisonous...they are not illegal. Obviously a posionous "part of nature" should be illegal using your rationale, no?
Belladonna isn't illegal either...and it can poison you to death. In contrary to weed....it's simply a political decision that has been made...and politics and "rational decisions" is another pot of tee we could discuss for ages...
I like to think for myself and I agree with palespyder...no harm, no foul. It is a plant, if I want to grow it I should be able to without the long arm of the law saying otherwise. My 2 cents.
First, I would decriminalise possession and personal use of all psychoactive/recreation pharmaceuticals. Just to make my stance clear for what follows There is a lot more to this debate than personal responsibility. I have been a psychiatric nurse now for 15 years and involved in mental health for longer. Over the last 15 years I have seen drug precipitated psychosis admitted to hospital on a steady increase from maybe one every few months to it forming a stable (probably about 10%) part of the inpatient population. Recreational drug use precipitates significant mental health problems in a significant proportion of the population. This can't just be ignored. But it can't be effectively dealt with by criminalising that section of out society that use drugs recreationally or experimentally (and I do believe that consciousness research is a legitimate field). The problem won't go away... it's going to get bigger... it becomes easier and easier to make artificial psychoactives... new recreational drugs ARE going to hit the market, and they are going to be chemicals our bodies and our neuro-receptors have never seen. To debate this succesfully we have to acknowledge that drug use impacts society and non-drug users in many significant ways, economically and in terms of law and order and security etc. But I don't believe that can be dealth with by shoving the activity under the carpet. I speak as someone who has probably messed with my head chemically more than most of you have had food, and has made a conscious decision now to not take any form of recreation chemical. I would rather it was legal, we control the sources (take it from the hands of organised crime), we educate as to the consequences (I will happily stand in front of any of you and tell you why you shouldn't do this shit, but i will defend to my death your right to do it) both personal and social, and we deal with the consequences openly and without shame. </soapbox>
ummm... arent we talking about pot? You can do all the studies you want, but that doesnt change the fact that you are probably talking to people who have smoked the stuff for years and years. Where are the nevative effects? Where are the problems? Im a responsible person, Im very active in politics and run my own business at only 25 years old. I smoked pot from the age of 16 to 23, and I mean several times a day, every day. I feel great! Im healthy, motivated, doing good on finances. I no longer touch the stuff because I am quite active in politics and breaking the law is something I can no longer be a part of. One of the reasons I am active in politics is because I am a big opponent of those who would raise our taxes for wasteful spending. Let me ask, do you think it is worth paying our hard earned dollars so that a 71 year old man who was pulled over and happened to have a roach in the floorboard can spend 27 days in jail on a first offense? Think it doesnt happen? Think again. I just so happened to know the man. We let people who beat on woman out without even thinking about it, but God forbid we have a little old man who likes to puff on a spliff from time to time walking the streets. Im sorry, but I just dont see the logic in that.
Did you read my first line?? And I'm not talking studies, I'm talking direct observation of patients and friends... they may only make up say 2% of the smoking population but it is a significant problem. Mind altering drugs alter your mind. And that's OK but lets not pretend it is a risk free activity. Oh come on... I know guys in their 70's who smoke and drink whisky every day... their existence is not proof that drinking whisky and smoking are risk free activities. Negative effects? In some, extreme paranoia, delusions, in others, lethargy, reduced cognitive function. Not in everyone, but in enough. And yeah, I'm talking weed here. Of course not...if you read my post at all you would have realised I would criminalise NOBODY for smoking.
First of all, I never said it was risk free. Coffee is not risk free, smoking cigarettes are not risk free, driving a vehical 70 mph is not risk free. My argument is that there seems to be a double standard when it comes to this. Pot didnt really alter my mind that much, it was more a physical pleasure in my case. Alcohol on the other hand is FAR more dangerous IMHO. Trance, I respect your opinion, but I can only speak from personal experience, and honestly, there are far more important things to worry about rather than what Jim next door may be puffing on. Again, its about personal responsibility. If a person can control themselves, they will be ok. At least this was the case when it came to me or ANYONE I know.
This has to be the most intelligent post in this thread. I would like to hear your viewpoint on the psychological effects of marijuana vs ecstasy use for moderate/high usage. What's been your experience?
zman- the nature of my work is that I get to see the damage that most people don't, but it is out there whether you see it or not.... but I agree, alcohol is far more dangerous
My position is very similar to Trance's and for much the same reasons (see my posts on this subject about 10 pages ago I can't believe this thread is still going). It's not about locking people up -- it's about informed choices. And as Trance said, pot is NOT risk-free. If, knowing that, you make a personal choice to take the risks, go ahead. I don't believe you should be locked up for making that choice. But, as I said earlier, I think the pro-weed propaganda is at least as bad (harmful) as some of the more extreme anti-weed propaganda: No matter which side you're on, it's still propaganda. And that won't help anyone. Get the facts out there and let people make informed choices and I'd be satisfied: Regular or long term heavy use of pot has a number of negative effects, some of them potentially serious. So does regular or long-term heavy use of alcohol. Know that and make your own decision. Just don't stick your head in the sand before making that decision. Addendum: Just saw Trance's last post and I disagree with one statement there -- I don't think alcohol is far more dangerous -- I'd say the dangers are about the same for most people. For some, alcohol is clearly more dangerous -- for others, there's little doubt that pot is far more dangerous.
Maybe my point would be clearer if I said that the consequences of the extreme use of alcohol are more damaging to the indiviudal and to society than the consequences of extreme use of cannabis in most of its common forms.
I'm not sure I would want to compare them. Nor, I have to say, would I consider my opinion more intelligent than anyone elses... it does concern me though that the debate on this subject very quickly seems to take on a cartoon Tom and Jerry quality which does no ones position any justice. Ecstacy is not currently a major problem in my experience when it comes to rapid onset of mental illness... cannabis can be... most of my professional encounters with people taking ecstacy tend to be on a friday or saturday night when I used to to Mental health Liaison in Casualty but seemsed to be the effects of the drug itself rather than the trigger of any latent mental health problems... long term I think we have yet to really discover anything useful. But it will be what it will be. People will, and should take intelligent risks.
(I will happily stand in front of any of you and tell you why you shouldn't do this shit, but i will defend to my death your right to do it). "I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend, to my death, your right to say it". I couldn't resist to post that line, maybe one of the most important quotes for pluralism. Anyway I'm supporting your opinion (since I've tried some of these "chemical" myself).and just to make it clear to a lot of you, it never damaged me neither mentally or physically, I think it all depends about your personality. Some have addictive personalities the other (like me) dont.beside that, I believe anyone can limit themselves, I prepared myself way ahead before even trying anything and made sure that it's just for the experience,and I don't regret every second of it. it dosent really matter what people do as long as they're not a threat to society. P.S.I would like to hear more about LSD effect. (Negatives and positives reactions)
How can you be so sure? Some adverse effects are subtle and don't become overt for years in some case...