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We should all get a Universal Basic Income

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by bacardirum, Dec 10, 2019.

  1. #1
    Regardless of where you come from, whether you work or not, every person over the age of 16 should get a set amount paid into your bank account each month from your government. This needs to happen for the future particularly when we have massive companies taking in all the cash, and robotics etc will replacing humans in jobs. A society where lots of people are without work would be a very nasty one for all.
    SEMrush
    If you wish to still work and earn money you can, however, you will still be credited the UBS.

    Small trials are happening around the world, but on a low scale. For example people living in Stockton, California are being given $500 a month. The tests are happening in other countries too, even the government in my own country Scotland are talking about this.

    Bring on UBI ;)
     
    bacardirum, Dec 10, 2019 IP
    SEMrush
  2. jrbiz

    jrbiz Illustrious Member

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    #2
    This post should be in the Politics & Religion section of DP. That is where all political nonsense like this gets posted. Then, we could have a proper discussion as to where socialism/communism, etc., have ever worked in the world.
     
    jrbiz, Dec 10, 2019 IP
  3. Spoiltdiva

    Spoiltdiva Illustrious Member

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    #3
    Wonderful!... Let us create a society of worthless, lazy incompetents that have no motivation what so ever. Gone will be the days when one needs to actually earn one's keep.

    In the wild (animal kingdom) the weak die off. In human society the weak are supported by the strong and get to reproduce. From this worthless genetic pool more worthless types multiply...madness. (not politically correct but my honest opinion)
     
    Spoiltdiva, Dec 10, 2019 IP
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  4. bacardirum

    bacardirum Well-Known Member

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    #4
    It's not the point of people being lazy or not, the point is that a time is coming when jobs will be scarce due to robotics and AI replacing many of them. The world is a fast moving place, try living in a society where the majority can not get a job, it will not be a pretty place to live for anyone. If you do not think that is going to happen you are deluded, even the governments see it as a major future issue hence the trials around the globe, and talks about it.

    People can already be lazy and get benefits, nothing new there, it's about a little more than that.
     
    bacardirum, Dec 12, 2019 IP
  5. Spoiltdiva

    Spoiltdiva Illustrious Member

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    #5
    I am not the one here who is deluded. It's time for you to get off the computer because "Star Trek" is on t.v. and you know you can't miss that.;)
     
    Spoiltdiva, Dec 12, 2019 IP
  6. bacardirum

    bacardirum Well-Known Member

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    #6
    Of course you are not, go give your "animal kingdom" speech to the world leaders discussing UBI, you will blow them away ;)
     
    bacardirum, Dec 12, 2019 IP
  7. qwikad.com

    qwikad.com Illustrious Member Affiliate Manager

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    #7
    Time to move to Norway, right @PoPSiCLe ?
     
    qwikad.com, Dec 12, 2019 IP
  8. sarahk

    sarahk iTamer Staff

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    #8
    A UBI might be good but I'm happy enough with a safety net for those who need it. In NZ we have unemployment with few strings attached, disability, accommodation, and superannuation. That seems to work well enough.
     
    sarahk, Dec 12, 2019 IP
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  9. bacardirum

    bacardirum Well-Known Member

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    #9
    The thing is also Sarah, UBI will actually save billions a year in the long-run, as with a UBI setup government offices such as job seekers, housing benefit, people signing on, childcare etc are all eradicated, as these are all factored into the payment system. Contrary to what the others said too, it does not lead to lazy people, in fact having the extra funds encourages people to start businesses whom would not have had the cash prior, it's not an excuse not to work, anyone who wishes to work will still benefit and obviously earn more. Someone who wants to be a millionaire is not going to be lazy because they have UBI.
     
    bacardirum, Dec 12, 2019 IP
  10. jrbiz

    jrbiz Illustrious Member

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    #10
    And you can count on these statements to be true because of all of the success stories there have been with socialism around the world. Just look at the most recent example, Venezuela. A real people's paradise based on similar thinking.
     
    jrbiz, Dec 12, 2019 IP
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  11. bacardirum

    bacardirum Well-Known Member

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    #11
    No, but I can count on the fact jobs will be much more scarce in the future and something has to be done about it, look at the London riots not so long ago, this was mini-scale and it was primarily because young teenagers thought they were being given no chance, no jobs, no hope, it brought the UK to a standstill. This is the future everyone faces. There are no hard rules about life and how it should be run, if you would prefer the top 1% owning all wealth and the rest scraping by, good on you, but it will not end up nice for anyone. Of course as you said, this is just political nonsense. I wonder if you run a site or business, and the majority of people have no income, how do you expect to be paid :) I am sure the elite will slip you a little back-hander ;) You might be needing from the government before you know it.
     
    bacardirum, Dec 12, 2019 IP
  12. mmerlinn

    mmerlinn Notable Member

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    #12
    Whether you want to believe it or not, people ALWAYS squander what they do not earn. The more you give, the more you ENCOURAGE laziness, like WHY should I work if I can live WITHOUT working?

    There NEVER has been a shortage of jobs and NEVER will be. There HAS been a shortage of people WILLING and/or QUALIFIED to work the available jobs. Give bums money and they will not work any harder than needed. Simple human psychology.

    Unless there is a VALID reason, NO ONE SHOULD BE SUPPORTED BY ANYONE ELSE. If one CAN work, he either should WORK, or STARVE. With incentive like that, NO ONE WILL VOLUNTARILY STARVE.

    NO business can survive without workers. NO business can have workers if they do not pay workers enough to remain working for the business. The ONLY way a business can pay LESS than a working wage is if the GOVERNMENT or some other POWER entity somehow SUBSIDIZES the business, for example, SLAVE labor MANDATED by the government like CHAIN GANGS.
     
    mmerlinn, Dec 12, 2019 IP
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  13. sarahk

    sarahk iTamer Staff

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    #13
    So you're cool with kids growing up in poverty because of the mistakes of their parents?
     
    sarahk, Dec 13, 2019 IP
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  14. bacardirum

    bacardirum Well-Known Member

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    #14
    Show me the data and proof that people given things squander them, you need to at least back up statements with facts lol I want to see this information then we can move on to the rest @mmerlinn
     
    bacardirum, Dec 16, 2019 IP
  15. jrbiz

    jrbiz Illustrious Member

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    #15
    BTW, I want to mention again that this thread should be moved to the Politics & Religion section. Let's not do a "my 'facts' are better than your facts" exercise. You can always find a prestigious report pushing a particular point of view. Let's do a quick game theory approach to this topic of wealth distribution, which this truly is because the government does not produce wealth, itself; rather, it takes wealth from one person to give to another. UBI would be a significant re-distribution of wealth from one group of people to the benefit of another group of people. Now, if some wealth distribution for UBI is good, why wouldn't even more wealth distribution not be even better? In fact, why shouldn't it be a 50/50 split so that everyone has the same UBI and no one makes any more money than anyone else. That would be the purest, most fair way for a civilized society to live, wouldn't it?

    Here is the game theory around this approach: the game used to be that the alpha types would work twice as hard, make better decisions, take risks, etc., to "win" in the game of capitalism which was acquiring wealth and toys. If that is no longer possible, the game changes and the objectives actually reverse. Since everyone makes the same income no matter what they do in life, the Alpha game now becomes to do as little as possible while getting the UBI. Doing nothing would be best, of course. Everyone else is a sucker.
     
    jrbiz, Dec 16, 2019 IP
  16. bacardirum

    bacardirum Well-Known Member

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    #16
    The thread is in politics lol, I cant read any more...
     
    bacardirum, Dec 16, 2019 IP
  17. sarahk

    sarahk iTamer Staff

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    #17
    Go to Cuba - everyone hustles to get more. A UBI doesn't extinguish ambition.
     
    sarahk, Dec 16, 2019 IP
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  18. bacardirum

    bacardirum Well-Known Member

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    #18
    I agree, wholeheartedly, in fact a UBI can encourage people to start businesses who never had the funds to do so prior.
     
    bacardirum, Dec 16, 2019 IP
  19. jrbiz

    jrbiz Illustrious Member

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    #19
    Of course, the alpha Cubans (who are the serious hustlers) all try to get to Miami where capitalism flourishes. :)

    Think of this personally: if you got paid X no matter if you work or if you ride your bicycle and do other funs things all day long, which would you choose? Would you get up at 6:00am and go to work at a grueling job while your neighbor sleeps in and then goes on a picnic for the day and you are both being paid the same?
     
    jrbiz, Dec 17, 2019 IP
  20. sarahk

    sarahk iTamer Staff

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    #20
    But why, when they could be chilling on the beach with a picnic?

    Because humans are greedy/ambitious, they want to establish a hierarchy and best picnic hamper isn't going to cut it.

    Even with a UBI, we could all work at a minimum wage job with no responsibility, do the hours, go home. But we don't want that, do we?
     
    sarahk, Dec 17, 2019 IP