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Discussion in 'Guidelines / Compliance' started by hereiam, Oct 30, 2005.

  1. dzcap

    dzcap Well-Known Member

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    #21

    Very good observation, I didn't even realize the violations.SEMrush
     
    dzcap, Oct 31, 2005 IP
    SEMrush
  2. FlashVictim

    FlashVictim Guest

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    #22
    This are clearly violations, and when these scammers aren't taken care off the adsense program will turn into a scam too. But some violating sites are starting adsense users who didn't read the rules too well... always look at a site in a balanced manner before reporting them, it could be a beginners fault sometimes.
     
    FlashVictim, Oct 31, 2005 IP
  3. antonaf

    antonaf Banned

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    #23
    I understand everyone frustration, but have anyone tried contacting the site webmaster before contacting Google??

    I think Google is very capable of handling its own affairs and instead of being a "Whistleblower" or "Google Hero", I think it would be fair to give the site webmaster the benefit of the doubt and first contact them. If you receive no response or action within 24-72 hours then contacting Google would be the logical next step.

    Some people are vindictive and just trying to beat the system, but then there are also those who are not online marketing savvy and do not generally read the Program Policy or understand the Program Policy....these people should not be treated like scum, until they prove they are scum. If you contact them and you receive no action or no response then you can treat them like scum, but before that you should give them the benefit of the doubt and lend a helping hand, by telling them about their violation.

    I know many are saying, if you don't read the Progam Policy then you shouldn't use Adsense or any other advertising network and they should be banned, but just remember we all started somewhere and before any of us joined our first webmaster forum we had made many website mistakes, whether it was related to advertising, design, style, or layout. Not reading the Agreement online is a big "NO NO" but it is very common for people not to read Agreements online and offline. Skilled webmasters (like ourselves) are trained to read Agreements therefore, we will never make these mistakes, but when you first started online, you can't tell me you read every single Agreement on each site you visited or joined. I'm sure most of you don't do that now. Many people (commoners) don't understand the importance and the grand "contract" they are entering when signing up with Adsense and other ad networks, they were told about how they can make money from it and probably misinformed, but they weren't told the details of the Agreement. When Google updates its Agreement I still come to the webmaster forums just to get a better understanding of the contract.

    If you still feel the need to send an email to Google then you should at least CC: the website owner. If there is no contact info on the site then sending an email to "webmaster" at the site domain (e.g. ) should forward the email to the email address used at the time of registering the domain name. If these guys are really trying to beat the system then Google has all the tools in place to catch these guys and deal with them appropriately. I am not at all implying that Google should not know about these sites if they are in fact illegitimate webmasters, but I think we should at least give them the benefit of the doubt. Don't shoot first and ask questions last!

    Anyway, I am going to send emails to these guys, pointing them to this post. I'm interested to see their response.
     
    antonaf, Oct 31, 2005 IP
  4. antonaf

    antonaf Banned

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    #24
    We basically are saying the same thing! I guess we both were posting at the same time. You have the faster trigger finger! :)
     
    antonaf, Oct 31, 2005 IP
  5. bluelarva

    bluelarva Peon

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    #25
    I really have hard time giving the benefit of the doubt for the first and second example. The AdSense publisher clearly knows that what they are doing is not legit. Even the third one I have hard time giving the webmaster the benefit of the doubt. Can you honestly say that labeling link unit as Main Navigation an accident? I've seen header like "support our site" which is technically a violation because there is very rigid rules on what header you can have above ads. I can see how that's a simple honest mistake. I just think "Main Navigation" is deliberately misleading. Having said that I agree with FlashVictim and antonaf. I do contact the webmaster letting them know about their violation. I've actually seen one site that asked people to click on their ad to support their site but that seemed like an honest mistake. I'll wait and see if they correct that in couple days. If they don't, then they really do deserve whatever happens.
     
    bluelarva, Oct 31, 2005 IP
  6. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #26
    Sorry, but the last thing I would do is to give me email address to someone who is going to have their adsense turned off.

    The rules are simple. when you accept adsense, you MUSt read their terms and conditions, if you don't then you are not a responsible business person and have no right to play .

    We are not talkijng about traffic here, we are talking about people taking money from other businesses. Everytime soimeone clicks an ad, someone somewhere pays for it.
     
    Old Welsh Guy, Oct 31, 2005 IP
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  7. wrmineo

    wrmineo Peon

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    #27
    antonaf, I can appreciate your benefit of the doubt stance, but I have to concur with Old Welsh Guy on this one 110% - ignorance of the law is never an excuse, especially when the scam is costing someone else money that ultimately gives the programs and its publishes a marred image.

    Along those same lines, FlashVictim points out that this could be an error chalked up to being a beginner. That is very possibly the cause, but at who's expense.

    When I got my driver's license, I had a TOS too ... it's called the "Rules of the Road" had to "accept" those when I took the written test and signed the dotted line so to speak. If I go out on day one and hit a child in the school zone, do I get to claim beginner's error?

    I realize that's not the best of analogies, but it's the same principle nonetheless IMO.
     
    wrmineo, Oct 31, 2005 IP
  8. antonaf

    antonaf Banned

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    #28
    I am in no way saying the person is not in the wrong and if Google has caught them that they shouldn't be banned and punished. But a simple email to the person in violation should be the first thing a person should do instead of a direct jump to Google. Google has their own way of catching scammers, we do not have to be internet police or in this case Google Police. Google is not going to reward you for snitching on a fellow webmaster! We need to at least determine if the person is a n00b or if they are actually just trying to scam the system! And if they are trying to scam the system, then you can believe that Google (the billion dollar company) will find out and deal with them.

    Anyway, my point is this:

    Email I sent:
    Greetings Webmaster,

    I wanted to inform you that your Google Adsense ads on your website www.president2005.com violates the Google Adsense Program Policy. I am not affiliated or employed by Google, other than I am a advertiser and publisher of their ads as well, but I thought I should bring this to your attention because you have a strong potential of being banned completely from the Adsense program. Please see the Adsense Program Policy here: https://www.google.com/adsense/policies

    The violation which is clear to me is the statement which says: "Click 'Ads by Google' to Support our Project". I will await your response or action, but if you do not clean your violation within 48 hours then I will be forced to report you to Google. There has already been a number individuals who have already reported you, please see here: http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=35984

    These violations are unacceptable, because they simply do harm to the community of faithful and loyal advertisers and publishers.

    --
    Regards,

    Ant Onaf



    Email I Received:
    Dear Ant Onaf,

    I thought by asking my users to click and visit all advertsers would
    generate more traffic to these pages. I am alermed about your comment on
    this. I would remove this phrase, if you think it violates privacy policy.

    Thank you for guiding me, please visit the website again. I have removed
    all that "Ads by Google"



    Result:
    The tagline is now removed!

    If the tagline comes back then informing Google will be the next thing to do. You would only hope someone would do the same for you! But I know most of us (webmasters) are so cocky, we say "We won't get caught with our pants down!"
     
    antonaf, Oct 31, 2005 IP
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  9. dzcap

    dzcap Well-Known Member

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    #29
    Case closed, so it really wasn't an intentional attempt at cheating like many believed.
     
    dzcap, Oct 31, 2005 IP
  10. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #30
    .
    Funny how people had 'no intention' once they have been caught. Innocence is no defence in law I am afraid. AntonAF, well done on letting the guy know what was going on.
     
    Old Welsh Guy, Oct 31, 2005 IP
  11. aeiouy

    aeiouy Peon

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    #31
    Why should we bother? Why take more time? It is Google's repsonsibility to deal with them, let them deal with them. Why should someone who is in most cases intentionally and blatantly trying to game the system be given the courtesy of a contact first?


    Actually Google appreciates the assistance a great deal.


    Again why? Why should I devote MORE time to this than necessary to make sure it is addressed? What has the typical violator done to earn the benefit of the doubt. Most of the time the violations are clear and flagrant. Not worthy of the benefit of the doubt.


    Feel free to do that if you want. I have found just contacting Google directly works very well.


    Not a lot of sympathy for those people honestly. This is a business. It is serious. It is not recess and it is not tea time with the kiddies. If you want to act like an adult you have to behave like an adult. If you want to run a business you should have some level of responsible behavior. if you do not, you potentially suffer.



    Who cares about scum? They are violating th TOS which in turn harms the adsense program and jeopardizes earnings for ALL adsense publishers. Nothing about being scum or being a bad person. I could care less what their motivation is. My problem is their impact, and regardless of satan or jesus, the impact is exactly the same.


    Nah.. I will stick with contacting google. Cut out the middle man. If they followed pretty basic instructions to begin with there wouldn't be an issue to begin with.


    Apparently you are not familar with how things work. Google is not going to ban someone for having a note asking people to click on ads. They will contact the publisher and tell them to remove the offending items. This is a win-win for everyone. The publisher gets a warning, AND they get a note on their record, so if they do something again it will be counted for. By going to the publisher directly, you are allowing them to skate if they commit future violations.

    So go straight to google. It is the best for you it is the best for me, it is the best for google and it is even the best for the person who might have made a mistake.

    Chances will contact them soon enough. Are you hoping to get a cookie from them?

    Bottom line is none of us are qualfiied to determine specific severity of violation. Leave it to Google to determine what should be done. If you see something suspect, it is reasonable to let them know so they can investigate.


    Edit:

    About the respnded email. Here is the problem. If the person is a real scammer, then he just got away with one, and he won't have a record for the next time he crosses the line. You didn't do anyone any favors by sending them a mail directly. If he was truely innocent it would not matter because he would not do it again. If he is a scammer you let him get away with it. Fortunately google has lots of cache data, so they can go back and look at previous information and perhaps he will still properly be flagged for his infraction.
     
    aeiouy, Oct 31, 2005 IP
  12. antonaf

    antonaf Banned

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    #32
    aeiouy,

    All are valid points. I do agree with you, but I guess the problem I have is that people are only one-sided. If it is Google being violated it is a big deal, but if it was another (smaller) publsiher network no one would care as much! But Google is (supposedly) the god of the internet and everyone is just trying to be Google's best friend; thinking Google will pat them on the back! When you can just simply help a fellow webmaster and reward yourself (pat yourself on the back). If this was a high-end website, well-known website, or a corporate website who should know better and have skilled professionals who know the Agreement front and back, then I could understand going directly to Google with the issue (where Google would possibly give special permission to violate their terms), but just a small time website, probably a one-person owned website who is trying to come up just the same as anyone else...I will do them the favor and send them a email FIRST!

    Though, I do NOT knock anyone for going the other route and informing Google because it is also the proper thing to do, but there are more ways than one for dealing with such a issue...and I choose contacting the webmaster first, if I feel they are not blantly being malicious.

    This entire thread could have easily been avoided if a simple email was sent to the webmaster.
     
    antonaf, Oct 31, 2005 IP
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  13. wrmineo

    wrmineo Peon

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    #33
    ANTONAF - you've got my vote for Good Samaritan of the Day.

    I don't disagree with your actions one bit. I simply find it aggravating how many people plead ignorance in these cases.

    Worse yet, are those who know they're doing wrong and then plead the "bandwagon" defense, because everyone else is doing it too ....

    Then to beat all, they end up in this and other forums screaming "foul" :(

    Either way, your points are valid - there's always alternate ways to handle; I merely agree with the others, that when you're accepted into AdSense, you have to check the box, saying I've read the rules of engagement (TOS/Policies/etc.) yet they go out firing down the wrong lanes.
     
    wrmineo, Oct 31, 2005 IP
  14. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

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    #34
    Or; if the person had simply reported it to google and not announced it to the whole world. Dunno why these threads pop up all the time. If you find one, report it and move on. No real point in telling the whole world that there is yet -another- adsense cheater. We all know they exist.
     
    lorien1973, Oct 31, 2005 IP
  15. admans

    admans Peon

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    #35
    How do this people get away with such kind of tricks. Why is google not taken action against them yet. Is google even listening to this ?
     
    admans, Oct 31, 2005 IP
  16. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #36
    yes Google is listening, but remember they6 do not pay out immediately. Also they will refund flase clicks.
     
    Old Welsh Guy, Nov 1, 2005 IP
  17. monkeywarplane

    monkeywarplane Peon

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    #37
    No one is trying to be a Google hero or looking for Google to pat them on the back, that's ridiculous. People are reporting the violations because shady webmasters like this cause AdWords to be ineffective, making Adsense less effective, causing webmasters that follow the rules and TOS to eventually suffer. I think it's looking out for the best interest of the AdSense community as a whole.

    If the webmaster didn't read the TOS, while others did, well, who is at fault then?

    And for those that say Google can perform the job, yes they can, however we are just making it easier for them. Why have a Adsense Support guy look over a site when a simple email will tell them whether they followed the TOS or not?

    Stuart
     
    monkeywarplane, Nov 1, 2005 IP
  18. TheSyndicate

    TheSyndicate Prominent Member

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    #38
    there is no adsense here what i can see maybe i am in the wrong bloody country
     
    TheSyndicate, Nov 1, 2005 IP
  19. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #39

    That might well be because the site has been corrected after having this thread pointed out , and also emails sent to the owner ;)
     
    Old Welsh Guy, Nov 1, 2005 IP
  20. president2005

    president2005 Peon

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    #40
    Ant Onaf sent me a mail about this violation thing. I agreed and removed all that. What i dont understand is this? I am from Sri Lanka, even though i was paying me few bucks, but my users would visit these links, that would automatically generate traffic to these advertisers.

    Explain this!?:eek:
     
    president2005, Nov 6, 2005 IP