1. Advertising
    y u no do it?

    Advertising (learn more)

    Advertise virtually anything here, with CPM banner ads, CPM email ads and CPC contextual links. You can target relevant areas of the site and show ads based on geographical location of the user if you wish.

    Starts at just $1 per CPM or $0.10 per CPC.

We need to get rid of vaccines

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by VACC, Mar 24, 2017.

?

Should we?

  1. Yes

    1 vote(s)
    11.1%
  2. No

    8 vote(s)
    88.9%
  1. Agent000

    Agent000 Notable Member

    Messages:
    4,591
    Likes Received:
    741
    Best Answers:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    290
    #21
    That is my whole point.
    You either listen to the real experts who do real research and publish in real high impact factor medical journals or you listen to the fear-mongering conspiracy nutjobs that wear tinfoil hats and have no qualifications but have a website.
    I know who I am going to trust.
    SEMrush
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
    Agent000, Mar 28, 2017 IP
    SEMrush
  2. melprise

    melprise Active Member

    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    38
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    #22
    In other words, you fall for whatever Big Pharma/Big Med and their bought off experts are selling. You do realize the drug companies make tens of billions off vaccines, don't you? They are the ones doing most of the selling, and thus have the most at stake. Since the CDC possesses 20 vaccine patents, they also have a conflict of interest in discussing vaccines. You've fallen for their disinformation campaign against alternative approaches to the subject. You can't rebut the facts or evidence presented in those summary articles, so you name call the sites or belittle their motives. That is not argumentation, it's just lazy putdowns.

    Since you and jrbiz require 'real experts' in order to give yourselves permission to think, here are multiple scientific articles from non-commercial sources to support the vaccines-autism link. I could site two dozen more:

    Peer-reviewed study shows vaccinated children have a 700% higher chance of neurodevelopmental disorder
    Frontiers in Public Health 4:270 (2016)
    Dr. Anthony R. Mawson, et al, Professor at the Department of Epidemiology and Biostatistics, School of Public Health, Jackson State University (JSU)

    Hepatitis B Vaccination of Male Neonates and Autism
    Annals of Epidemiology, September 2009
    CM Gallagher, MS Goodman, Stony Brook University Medical Center

    Porphyrinuria in childhood autistic disorder: Implications for environmental toxicity
    Toxicology and Applied Pharmacology, 2006
    Robert Natafa, et al, Laboratoire Philippe Auguste, Paris, France
    These data implicate environmental toxicity in childhood autistic disorder.

    Theoretical aspects of autism: Causes—A review
    Journal of Immunotoxicology, January-March 2011
    Helen V. Ratajczak, PhD
    Autism could result from more than one cause, with different manifestations in different individuals that share common symptoms. Documented causes of autism[10] include genetic mutations and/or deletions, viral infections, and encephalitis following vaccination.

    Comparison of Blood and Brain Mercury Levels in Infant monkeys exposed to Vaccines Containing Thimerosal
    Environmental Health Perspectives, Aug 2005.
    Thomas Burbacher, PhD, University of Washington
    This study demonstrates clearly and unequivocally that ethyl mercury, the kind of mercury found in vaccines, not only ends up in the brain but leaves double the amount of inorganic mercury as methyl mercury, the kind of mercury found in fish.

    Blood Levels of Mercury Are Related to Diagnosis of Autism: A Reanalysis of an Important Data Set
    Journal of Child Neurology, 2007

    M. Catherine DeSoto, PhD, Robert T. Hitlan, PhD -Department of Psychology, University of Northern Iowa
    Excerpt: "We have reanalyzed the data set originally reported by Ip et al. in 2004 and have found that the original p value was in error and that a significant relation does exist between the blood levels of mercury and diagnosis of an autism spectrum disorder. Moreover, the hair sample analysis results offer some support for the idea that persons with autism may be less efficient and more variable at eliminating mercury from the blood."

    Developmental Regression and Mitochondrial Dysfunction in a Child With Autism
    Journal of Child Neurology, February 2006

    Jon S. Poling, MD, PhD, Department of Neurology and Neurosurgery, Johns Hopkins Hospital
    Excerpt: "Children who have (mitochondrial-related) dysfunctional cellular energy metabolism might be more prone to undergo autistic regression between 18 and 30 months of age if they also have infections or immunizations at the same time."

    A Case Series of Children with Apparent Mercury Toxic Encephalopathies Manifesting with Clinical Symptoms of Regressive Autistic Disorder
    Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Health, 2007
    David A. Geier, Mark R. Geier
    This study reviewed the case histories and medical profiles of nine autistic children and concluded that eight of the nine children were mercury toxic and this toxicity manifested itself in a manner consistent with Autism Spectrum Disorders.

    -----------------------
    You were saying?
     
    melprise, Mar 29, 2017 IP
  3. Agent000

    Agent000 Notable Member

    Messages:
    4,591
    Likes Received:
    741
    Best Answers:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    290
    #23
    Ok, you prefer to believe the conspiracy and what you read on nutjob websites rather than credible websites. fail.
    You prefer you use the BigPhamra shill logical fallacy. Fail
    You fail to understand why the CDC has those patents for and believe in the conspiracy about it. fail.
    Suggest you actually read those studies you posted and critically appraise the actual methods and look at the flaws in the analysis and look at what they actually showed - most did actually find what you think! ... especially those published in low impact factor journals (I stick to what is published in high impact factor journals, where the science is good and they pass a higher scrutiny of peer review before publication).

    I also laughed out loud re the study you posted from the Geier's -- are you really that gullible to not see the problem with that one?

    WTF has the mercury compounds got to do with it? they were removed from childhood vaccines years ago, yet autism rates still went up. Fail.

    You have obviously made your mind up and fall for the conspiracies and promote the bad science. I will stick what he good real science and real experts says and not the conspiracy loons and nutjobs.

    eg
    You make it too easy. Do you not see the fatal flaw in that study? Are you that blinded by your belief in the conspiracy?
    The study is so bad it was retracted and withdrawn by the journal! (hint: your link went to the Wayback archive - surely that should have been a hint)
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
    Agent000, Mar 29, 2017 IP
    ryan_uk and jrbiz like this.
  4. melprise

    melprise Active Member

    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    38
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    #24
    To repeat, it is your mind that is made up, and drenched in conformist dogma, to the point where you are now blowing off or deriding peer-reviewed studies. What happened to your curious notion that I could provide no scientific support for the vaccine-autism link? It's gone up in smoke. What is your answer to the eight other studies, and the rest of the findings discussed in the 34 page paper you did subject to a laughable critique? Or to the other two dozen studies I didn't post?

    I could have also mentioned admissions by CDC and other authorities that much evidence for the link has been intentionally destroyed, but why should I, when it's clear that not even Ivy League or PubMed sources impress you? Listing the articles was not intended to settle the subject here, just to reasonably establish there are two expert-informed sides to this subject. The fact that you can't even admit that at this point, means this debate is over, and my mic is dropped. I'm outta here.
     
    melprise, Mar 30, 2017 IP
  5. sarahk

    sarahk iTamer Staff

    Messages:
    23,304
    Likes Received:
    3,138
    Best Answers:
    83
    Trophy Points:
    615
    #25
    Such a study would only have validity amongst those who have never been to a mother's coffee group. And a bunch of homeschooling Mums? Good grief, couldn't imagine anything worse.
    The ones who don't vaccinate will be blind to any faults their kids might possess and feel they just need to express themselves.
    The ones who do might be happier to acknowledge brattishness because they can pin the blame elsewhere and not on their helicopter parenting.
    There was no mention of home visits, quality control etc.
    You also have to assess their mental state prior to vaccination and after, look for hereditary & environmental causes etc especially since those who homeschool tend to be a little "different" anyway and thats how they've come to make choices outside the "norm".

    I know very little about the American schooling system outside of what I see in movies like "Easy A" and the news when the latest disaffected white boy goes nuts. I gather there's a trend amongst the wealthy to keep their kids out of school until they are 6 because the system doesn't let kids be kids and expects them to behave beyond their years - leading to further diagnoses of ADHD when really, the kid just needs time to grow up a bit. But that's beyond the scope of this thread.

    This one ties in with my experience with my daughter. It's not the vaccine that causes the problem as much as the added load on an already stressed system. The n=1 study (much like mine) has a child with a pre-existing vulnerability. It is flawed logic to blame the vaccine for the outcome as anything could have triggered the changes.

    When I was a kid we were sent to play with kids who were already sick with measles etc so we could "get it over with". Hell, I chucked my kids in the bath with their mate who had chicken pox because I wanted to manipulate the onset (it was inevitable) to fit my schedule.

    That kid could have been in the supermarket and sat in a trolley previously occupied by a kid coming down with something and picked up the bugs, got sick again and had the same outcome. The problem with n=1 studies is that you can't rule out the huge range of variables. There was no access to the subject prior to her illness, no muscle testing etc.

    This one is odd. Didn't realise they were vaccinating for Hep B, we don't even vaccinate for it when travelling to dodgy countries and you needed it in First World USA? While it's awful if it did cause problems (relies on parental reports, wtf) it doesn't stand to reason that all vaccines cause Autism.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
    sarahk, Mar 30, 2017 IP
  6. Agent000

    Agent000 Notable Member

    Messages:
    4,591
    Likes Received:
    741
    Best Answers:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    290
    #26
    Nope. My mind will change the minute that the consensus of the good science says so. it is your mind that is made up in your belief in all the conspiracy.
    I spend the bulk of my day reading and evaluating and critically appraising and looking at the quality of peer reviewed studies. The studies that you posted suck; are badly done and do not support what you are claiming.
    You have provided no evidence what-so-ever on the autism-vaccine link. Every single study that sticks up to critical appraisal of the quality of their methods says there is not link.
    They are bad science. You are too blinded by your belief in the conspiracy to see that.
    I can post more studies that show there is no link. When there is a body of literature with conflicting results, it then comes down to the systematic reviews and meta-analyse of all the studies taking into account the strength of the study design and the quality of the studies (given what you posted above you obviously have no clue about that). When you do that, they ALL come down on the side of there being no link. You won't read about all the good science and results on your conspiracy nutjob websites.

    Citing a Youtube video as evidence is an epic fail, but that is just more conspiracy bullshit that you are so gullible that you believe. The whole CDC whistleblower thing has been well debunked, so don't start quoting that. You won't read the actual facts about what happened with that on your conspiracy echo chambers as it does not suit their narrative.
    Yep. This debate is well and truly over. The whole debate has been manufactured by the conspiracy loons. The science has well and truly settled this.
    Fortunately, public health policy is based on good science and not based on what conspiracy nutjobs think. People like you are irrelevant to this and public health policy will not be based on the conspiracy.
    More and more states and countries are making vaccines compulsory as the science says that it makes sense; yes, the debate is over. The conspiracy nut jobs have lost as they have made themselves irrelevant to the discussion due to believing in the conspiracies.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
    Agent000, Mar 30, 2017 IP
    ryan_uk and sarahk like this.
  7. Agent000

    Agent000 Notable Member

    Messages:
    4,591
    Likes Received:
    741
    Best Answers:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    290
    #27
    Some questions for you.
    You posted 12 studies claiming to show a link between autism and vaccines.
    Why did you post those 12?
    Any reason you did not post any of the studies that have shown that there is no link? Do you know how many of them there are? Have you read any of them? Why do none of the conspiracy nutjob echo chambers post or link to them? What might be the reason that theydon't?
     
    Agent000, Mar 30, 2017 IP
  8. mmerlinn

    mmerlinn Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,530
    Likes Received:
    162
    Best Answers:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    190
    #28
    Yeah, just what we need. Get rid of vaccines so viruses will run wild on my computer.
     
    mmerlinn, Mar 31, 2017 IP
  9. Agent000

    Agent000 Notable Member

    Messages:
    4,591
    Likes Received:
    741
    Best Answers:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    290
    #29
    I see what was supposed to be the massive turnout by the conspiracy nutjobs to protest vaccines in Washington today only drew a bit over a few dozen.... that is how irrelevant they have become.
     
    Agent000, Mar 31, 2017 IP
  10. qwikad.com

    qwikad.com Prominent Member Affiliate Manager

    Messages:
    5,169
    Likes Received:
    960
    Best Answers:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    350
    #30
    I always thought it was hereditary. Somewhere in the family tree someone else was afflicted with autism (or some other form of ASD). Most parents of an autistic child have hard time admitting / accepting that and so we end up having these unfortunate studies (on vaccines and other stuff) that do nothing but misdirect people.


     
    qwikad.com, Apr 1, 2017 IP
    Agent000 likes this.
  11. Agent000

    Agent000 Notable Member

    Messages:
    4,591
    Likes Received:
    741
    Best Answers:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    290
    #31
    EXACTLY. The efforts of the conspiracy nutjobs are redirecting research efforts and resources away from finding the real problem and treatment. They are responsible for so much harm.
     
    Agent000, Apr 1, 2017 IP
  12. jbbryant

    jbbryant Greenhorn

    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    6
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    13
    #32
    Autism in some cases are preventable had parents only give the child proper attention during infancy and childhood. Instead parents are always on their smartphones.
     
    jbbryant, Apr 4, 2017 IP
  13. Agent000

    Agent000 Notable Member

    Messages:
    4,591
    Likes Received:
    741
    Best Answers:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    290
    #33
    What a load of clueless bullshit! You obviously have no clue what autism is and your statement is incredibly offensive. You are an arsehole.
     
    Agent000, Apr 4, 2017 IP
  14. jbbryant

    jbbryant Greenhorn

    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    6
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    13
    #34
    Go back to using your smartphone and you might learn something.
     
    jbbryant, Apr 4, 2017 IP
  15. Agent000

    Agent000 Notable Member

    Messages:
    4,591
    Likes Received:
    741
    Best Answers:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    290
    #35
    Here is a suggestion; head over to an autism forum or community and state what you said above. Me calling you an 'arsehole' will be mild compared to how they will treat you.
    Do you really have no comprehension just how offensive what you are saying is to the autism community?
     
    Agent000, Apr 4, 2017 IP
    sarahk likes this.
  16. sarahk

    sarahk iTamer Staff

    Messages:
    23,304
    Likes Received:
    3,138
    Best Answers:
    83
    Trophy Points:
    615
    #36
    What a revolting thing to suggest...
     
    sarahk, Apr 4, 2017 IP