Hey everyone, I am posting for the first time in my life a thread like this, but I am doing it not because of anger but because I feel like the rentacoder.com site has a serious hole in their workflow which can cause you material loss...and not mentioning the nerves which you can waste. Basically more than 45 days ago I created a project on Rentacoder.com for finding a freelance coder. The project was for a simple project management platform where orders which came to one of my site were supposed to be processed as tickets...assigning different status and then in the end closing them as finished. This had to be written under Zend framework. I have not chosen a deadline, because I wanted to speak first with the coder himself about how he sees the project, if he had any suggestions etc. You can see the full project here: http://www.rentacoder.com/RentACoder/misc/BidRequests/ShowBidRequest.asp?lngBidRequestId=856398 So I selected a bid which was neigher the highest, and neither the lowest. It was a $300 bid from a Ukranian coder named InfoSys. I thought that this is the right price for a project like this, which can be easily finished with less than 6-7 hours of work. I placed the money into escrow as requested by rentacoder.com So as I selected the winning bidder, it all began. For the first 3-4 days I did nor receive any email or message from the coder. I have sent him like 3-4 emails and messages. The first one was : Hello, My name is Nikola Alexandrov and I am the person who created the project "Create a Simple Project Management Platform Using Zend Framework" . I am happy to get this started and hope that it will turn out good for both of us. Basically I have written an overview of the requirements of my task in my auction. I suggest you ask the questions which you need answered in order to get things started and we will communicate from there on. You can write to me on this email address or on the Project on Rentacoder itself. You can also contact me via Skype or Phone. My Skype is : xxxxxxxxx My phone is ++xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Looking forward to hearing from you. Nikola Alexandrov" He finally responded. My reaction was "Thank god you responded, because I was starting to feel despair here.." So as he told me that they are beginning to work, I asked him how can he proceed with the work without even asking me or speaking with me. I asked a number of times to go live on skype or icq and he did not respond. He gave me a link to a "demo" of the project ...which was broken ofcourse. So for the next couple of weeks nothing happened. Probably a single response on 5 emails I sent...but there was no progress at all. The project was not even started. I started writing on the rentacoder message board (which is explicitly used as proof of the progress and relations between coders and bid holders of a given project, when there is arbitration - this is when you want to cancel the project). I wrote there, and I still was ignored. Not a single message, not a single plan for even starting the project..no nothing. After waiting for more than 40 days, naturally I asked for cancellation. It turned out that this was not possible and had to go to arbitration. Then a "professional" named Amanda Miller came and started acting as a judge. She said that it was possible to overcome the "slow" procedure of arbitration if we try self meditation. I said that I do not want to do any self meditation as the coder is a full scammer which had been ignoring me and gave me serious nerve pains. I was insulted, angry and ofcourse 1.5 months late on the project...and with 300 bucks blocked. The coder responded on the arbitration board the following thing: Dear Nik, I am asking about list of fixed requrements just to make visible process of accepting project. We have developed product, and would like send it to your over Arbitrator. Please define exactly points, we will provide delivery with instruction - so it could be managed. Regarding communication - we send your several emails, without any response. You requested communicate you over email. Please check out you message. What neves? I was going to get a heart attack trying to reach him and now he accuses me of being away. Anyways, this is when things escalated. I responded : I have asked you a number of times if you need more info. I have asked you about the progress. I have asked you about some kind of project plan. You gave absolutely nothing. Furthermore you did not even respond. Did not provide even a link to demo. What demo? Look at the messages here....I mean..cmon who are you lying? This is ridiculous. Just give me back my money. I have no intentions of wasting any more nerves for you. Then Amanda Milller asked if we want to try self meditation. The coder responded: I wish to try self-mediation. # How much of the funds remaining in escrow should the coder receive? ($ amount?) $300 Meaning that he actually wants all the money in order to accept self meditation. I responded (getting really pissed already): I would use self meditation if: 1. I get my full money back, because the coder didnt move a hand. 2. There is no deliverable...dont you get it? There is not a single line of code. Not atleast until I made this arbitration (40 days after I waited for some kind sign of life from the coder). 3. The cancellation fee should be covered by the one who is responsible for not doing his obligations. In this case, the coder. Omg this is ridiculous, you have full evidence that I have been scammed and you are copy n pasting me such texts, instead of just cancelling the escrow, and giving me back my money. Why is this happening? I am a respected webmaster. I sold one of my projects last month for $175,000 on Sitepoint and have 16 other websites. I am not going to waste anymore of my time. You decide what to do. and this is the Grand Finale.....just look what Amanda Miller posted: Nikola, It seems that you and the coder worked together but did not set a deadline to have this project completed. Had you actually set a new deadline, you would now been in an extremely strong position. A project with a deadline is either 100% complete or isn't. If it isn't 100% complete, then you would receive a full refund. We simply test the project and determine if it's 100% complete or not and then refund your funds. This gives you maximum protection. However, since you didn’t set a new deadline, we can’t fairly test for the project being 100% complete on time, when there is no agreement between the two of you as to when the project should be 100% complete. So now if you unilaterally pullout, you would be the one breaking the contract instead of the coder. You would have to pay the coder for the time invested (a partial payment). Additionally a rating notated that you pulled out would have to be put on your record. (Again, if it weren’t this way, an unscrupulous buyer could use that loophole to get free work out of coders…as described above). my response to that went.. "Dear Amanda, I regret to say this but I am totally disapointed from the services of rentacoder. This irresponsible coder lost me 40 days without moving a finger and now you are saying that the problem is that I didnt set a deadline? What deadline to set, how to do that IF THE CODER DOES NOT EVEN COMMUNICATE WITH ME? DOES NOT EVEN MENTION ANY BALLPARK OR PLAN HE HAS FOR THE PROJECT. Frankly I dont care about the $300. Fact is that I will never use your services again. I already created a project on scriptlance, found a coder and we are working on this. This is a project which can be finished within 2 days of work, and is already half way done (started working yesterday). Probably if you had the understood this, you would know how absurd the situation is. I would definitely not spare to share my disapointment with any associates I have about you. It turns you defend the one who is causing me material and nervous damage. And I am the one who wants to PAY HIM TO WORK FROM THE VERY BEGINNING! You can keep the $300 and work this project with your super intelligent, super responsible coder. You can set the deadline yourself, and consider this as a bonus for your superb service. And please accept my most sincere apologies that I have not set a deadline for the project. What nerves I had.... after 40 days of continuous emails and posts HERE where you can see, with nothing in return, for a measly 5 hours of work project, to forget to set a deadline....or moreover to set it for me, because the coder did not do anything. Anyways I assure you this wont happen again." SO BOTTOM LINE: Rentacoder have been trying to create a safe environment for both coders and webmasters. Based somewhat on a legal model where there is a rights and obligations for both parties, they forsee one very significant thing. By giving such credit to the deadline feature of a project, they basically empower malicious activity for people which just scan for projects which do not have any deadlines and give competitive bids and once they win, they dont move a finger. If this is the most important thing, then it should be obligatory to be set in the beginning. As a result, ofcourse arbitration occurs. And then the effect of arbitration is tragedic. The webmaster has no right on claiming his money back because he has not set a deadline. This gives in theory for the bidder the right to postpone with eternety. The only chance of a webmaster to come out of this is to go to the coder and try self meditation. But in order to do that you need to mutually agree on a new deadline. So basically for me, after hating this coder in my guts for humiliating and wasting me so much nerves and etc...this is impossible. In addition I am 100% certain that he would set a deadline which is far beyond what I accept, just in order to get out of meditation but to make it look like it is my fault. And the end : He will get a certain percentage of my escrow. and the result for me....unknown....still in progress. SO WHAT YOU SHOULD REMEMBER: If you ever use Rentacoder.com for anything, I advice you to always chose a deadline for your project. Otherwise you are the weak no matter what happens, and since there is proof of people that use this hole in their system and just accept such projects without deadlines in order to get into arbitration and suck a partial amount of the escrow you should be really cautious. In my case it was a measly project for $300. I hope this helps someone to avoid such problems with them. Always set a deadline, or use different Freelancer sites...such as Scriptlance.com or other.
Hey sorry about that, Warning flag is on. Right now just try to move on, thats all you can do. Take care.
This is the new Get rich quick method! Let me make an ebook and sell it on B/S/T. ..... Happened to me as well dude, I can feel it.
What can i say shit happens ... Rentacoder sux GAF is way bether even some say that they don't have that arbitage thing ...
Thanks for the heads up. Really a queer way of settling arbitration. Obviously they dont want to hurt the coders. Is there any rule that you should set deadlines?
Very helpful to me and everyone else. If nothing I feel your pain but thank you for letting me know. I was about to go searching for a coder for a project soon and this is one of the places I was looking at. Never did I think not setting a deadline would end up like this as I never really set a serious deadline. I just had someone on dp write up an article for me and when questioned when I needed it I replied take your time just make it on point and well written. I would have probably done the same there thinking I would have gotten a better product and hopefully a partner for future use......
Thanks for the kind words. Well yeah, this is exactly why I didnt set a deadline in the first place. I wanted to communicate with the coder first and then just pin point it and know a realistic estimation based on constructive dialogue....not based on somehting which I have in my head. You wouldnt believe what happened yesterday. I was given a choice by the arbitrage Amanda Miller - It turned out that I have 2 choices as a result from all this: 1. Either choose to be rated with 3 out of 10 and to "pull out of the contract", without any certainty how much of my money I will get.. (for sure less than the whole amount...if I am the 3 out of 10 means I am the one who fu**ed up everything...right? 2. continue with the coder and set up a new deadline Its a frikin circle of magic....you have no power over nothing...it comes again to "working" with the coder after he sets his own deadline.....yeah right.. I told them that I dont care about the 300 bucks...and that I consider this as my ticket of getting out of Rentacoder.com. Its a great price...for knowing how much pains I will save
sorry to hear about this... but if we set a deadline for a project then they can again say we shouldn't have set a deadline for the project and hence i will not get the money back... and thanks for letting us know about your case as i was thinking to go there next month to get some job done... but now i will not....
well yeah....they have a problem for sure. based on my experience scriptlance.com is a much better place. Just pay attention more to the feedback of the coders there and you will be safe.
You did not get ripped off man...Your ripped yourself off. Ive use RAC for years, I agree its getting harder to find quality coders, but when you started your bid request, it recommends that you do not leave the deadline open. common sense would say, ok if i dont set a deadline, then I am allowing the project to go on forever....and you are at the hands of the coder...now he can drag this out until he dies....
Dude, there is common sense and there is negligence. In the world of law and order and moreover, court..there are terms like negligence and intent to do business. A single letter of intent can lead to serious liability. Those guys at RAC play a game of court and judges, but when it comes to objective assesment of intent of doing something, or moreover, the total lack of one (this guy did not post a single message for 45 days), then the lack of a deadline does not hold such power. The one who is plaintiff here is me...I have proven that I wanted to finish the work. I posted and posted and posted...and nothing in return. I have financial damages and therefore I am the one who has the right to seek liability...if this was a courhouse. I have studied 2 semesters in law and believe me this is a total joke. If the world of court was based on deadlines, without giving credit to anything else then we would be living in a world of chaos. Its a fact that I wanted to have a project done, and that I have not received anything. Each party has rights and obligations. It is the obligation of the coder to communicate and set a deadline immediately after starting the project. And it is my right to know whats happening. IF those rights and obligations are not covered then the deadline is not a factor. A fact that I do not have the power to retrieve my money. And a fact that their arbitrage is a total joke. ITs like having a 3 year old lawyer.