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Discussion in 'ODP / DMOZ' started by wrmineo, Dec 1, 2005.

  1. brizzie

    brizzie Peon

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    #41
    In your opinion, which is without the benefit of inside knowledge. Opinions and suspicions are one thing but don't amount to evidence and fact. There is no evidence of widespread corruption. Nor is there any evidence of widespread attempts to corrupt the directory from outside. In 3.5 years of being a highly active editor I was offered a single bribe, of some cheap jewelry. Same goes for virtually every editor I know. There are over 60,000 former editors who have nothing to lose by testifying to the contrary but with the exception of a tiny handful of much publicised idiots who claim to be corrupt where are these 60,000+ witnesses who could back you up?
     
    brizzie, Jan 25, 2006 IP
  2. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #42
    There was a benefit of inside knowledge. Did you forget about the guy who spoke about DMOZ corruption in DP and after DMOZ editors calling names and posting that he is not editor, he posted the images from DMOZ internal forum? :rolleyes:

    Don't you think that just the fact that 60,000 volunteer have been given up on this organization speaks volume on the quality or better formulated lack of quality of DMOZ? ;)
     
    gworld, Jan 25, 2006 IP
  3. brizzie

    brizzie Peon

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    #43
    Did he post images of an internal forum thread that proved widespread corruption? I don't think he did. There have been a couple of others claiming widespread corruption and posting internal forum threads publicly last year too. None of them have so far produced anything that could even remotely be deemed evidence of widespread corruption. Hey did you know editors sometimes make fun of crap sites? That's about all that has been proven to my knowledge.

    I think it means people have 1000 different reasons for moving on and quality or lack thereof may well be 1 of those 1000 different reasons. Another is quite likely to be people who thought they could make a quick buck and found the rumours spread by people who know nothing were completely unfounded and therefore not worth their time. Good riddance.

    But I am not going to contradict myself by saying that 60,000 leaving is OK no problem when I actually think it is a serious issue that needs to be addressed as a priority.
     
    brizzie, Jan 25, 2006 IP
  4. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #44
    Does this mean that 60,000 corrupt people were accepted in DMOZ as editors? :rolleyes:
     
    gworld, Jan 25, 2006 IP
  5. Las Vegas Homes

    Las Vegas Homes Guest

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    #45
    Dont you think someone who is interested in a category or has a site that belongs in that category would be more than familar with all the spam associated with that cat.

    I agree that they should maybe have to work their way up to that category but right now and using real estate as an example as you did, you dont have people who are interested in dealing with real estate right now, why not bring a new editor in who is?

    I will give you a great example, you have a site listed in this CATEGORY site is www ( dot ) greatlasvegashomes.com that has duplicate pages of content. One page is static with metas, title and so on. You have the same duplicate content that has different title tags, metas and so on with exactly the same content but it is in frames. The static page doesnt have navigation but the framed page does...so explain to me why this site is listed if dmoz doesnt like duplication or enforce guidelines of sites with duplicate content. Also I doubt you find it, it is tricky what they did, but if after looking you dont find it let me know and I will show you.

    Maybe this might give a sense of what people who are interested in certain categories know about them. The reason we know is because we look at our competitors and know everything they are doing, they also look at us as well. Is it ethical, sure it is. No business operates without knowing what their competition is doing.

    I can also if needed point out a few more. Let me know if you find it and explain how this got by your editors please.
     
    Las Vegas Homes, Jan 25, 2006 IP
  6. brizzie

    brizzie Peon

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    #46
    I'm no longer an editor but if you spot things like this then there is a thread in Resource Zone where quality control faults can be reported and will be dealt with. That is how anyone with an interest in a category can easily have bad sites removed without actually being an editor (or an editor with rights to the category). I have dealt with lots of real estate sites, I actually enjoyed reviewing them. But they are not for the inexperienced, least not those for major US cities.
    Higher and unacceptable risk of abuse creeping in. If someone in real estate is serious about editing and not concerned mainly with self-promotion they will do their apprenticeship in knitting patterns or particle physics first, and thereby gain the trust of other editors to handle a spammy real estate category. In the meantime they can share their industry knowledge internally to help other editors.

    That said there is IMO mileage in allowing new editors to get greenbusting privileges in real estate categories and the like. Greenbusting means edits have to be approved by a more experienced editor before they get listed publicly. As it stands you have to be accepted as a full rights editor in your first category before you can get greenbusting privileges elsewhere. It is one minor change that might increase new editor numbers but, I fear, unlikely to be considered seriously.
     
    brizzie, Jan 25, 2006 IP
  7. EveryQuery

    EveryQuery Well-Known Member

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    #47
    EveryQuery, Jan 25, 2006 IP
  8. Las Vegas Homes

    Las Vegas Homes Guest

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    #48
    Las Vegas Homes, Jan 25, 2006 IP
  9. Genie

    Genie Peon

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    #49
    Could you clarify? It sounds as though you are saying that this site duplicates content on its own site. In other words it has a static page with content X and title tags, etc Y. Then it has another page in frames with the same text content X , but title tags Z.

    If so that is not against Dmoz guidelines at all. What we don't want is to list two or more different sites with the same content.

    Search engines of course could take a different approach. They could apply a duplicate content filter within a site as well as between sites. But I don't know if that is happening or not. I read rumours.
     
    Genie, Jan 26, 2006 IP
  10. Las Vegas Homes

    Las Vegas Homes Guest

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    #50
    No this site has the exact same content for every page in their navigation menu. If you click on any Nav menu item, then go to the middle of the frame if you use IE, right click, goto properties, look at what the url shows, copy and paste that url into your brower, you pull up another page which by the way is now static with no navigation menu and a different url than the frame page, but with the EXACT same content...here is an example Frame Here Static Page Here notice that the urls are different, the content is the same, the meta tags are different, the title tags are different and it even goes deeper than that for sneaky..LOL

    No the site doesnt duplicate the content on its own, the site owner duplicates the content and hides the static pages so consumers cant see and only the search engine bots can. This type of spam is used to increase the size of the site, help in Google with increasing Anchor Text, Title Text, Text and backlinks.

    Genie or any dmoz editor if you take a look at this, I believe you will see that this site violates, your guidelines and should be removed from dmoz. I have seen spam before but this was actually pretty smart, but its still spam and duplicate content.

    I guess the reason I point this out is because of the statement brizzie made about new editors need to learn to catch tricky spam. Those of us who have an interest in a category pretty much know what others are doing spam wise in our category. ;)
     
    Las Vegas Homes, Jan 26, 2006 IP
  11. EveryQuery

    EveryQuery Well-Known Member

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    #51
    LOL. I see what your saying now. At first, I thought that the site owner was a real retard for NOT using frames on the front page but USING frames on every other page. It makes no sense to do that, unless you are trying to fool Google.
     
    EveryQuery, Jan 26, 2006 IP
  12. Las Vegas Homes

    Las Vegas Homes Guest

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    #52
    Yes the site owner is a retard..;) lol but believes they are really smart. Now I think we all know why this site has been number 1 on Google for so long. It gets better though, I will PM you with something else that will blow your mind, you might get a kick out of it. :D
     
    Las Vegas Homes, Jan 26, 2006 IP
  13. Genie

    Genie Peon

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    #53
    This is exactly what I thought from your first post. The webmaster is choosing to create duplicate pages of his/her own content for the spiders. This is not a problem for Dmoz at all. It is not violating our guidelines.

    However if you notice a site listed in the ODP that is duplicating the content of another site also listed in the ODP, editors would be happy to hear about it.
     
    Genie, Jan 26, 2006 IP
  14. Las Vegas Homes

    Las Vegas Homes Guest

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    #54
    LMAO I reported this site mentioned in previous post to dmoz on the Resourceless Zone. It has a listing in dmoz and an editor replied and said it didnt matter to them. You can view the response HERE

    It amazes me how dmoz preaches that ODP wants quality sites listed, yet some of the worst spam, hidden urls and duplicate content I have ever seen is listed with this junk. So I guess if I was to create some unique content and duplicate it 100 times in the site, I to could get a dmoz listing.

    I guess it just shows that dmoz doesnt even follow their own guidelines or changes their guidelines when it suits their comments. AMAZING..but good info to have..:D
     
    Las Vegas Homes, Jan 26, 2006 IP
  15. Genie

    Genie Peon

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    #55
    Looks like your beef here is with a competitor who is managing to do well in Google with what you see as sneaky tricks. Right? In that case you might do better to report the site to Google. The SEs are waging war on sneaky tricks designed to fool bots.

    The ODP is more likely to wage war on sneaky tricks designed to fool people.
     
    Genie, Jan 26, 2006 IP
  16. Las Vegas Homes

    Las Vegas Homes Guest

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    #56
    ODP supplies listings to Google, I would want to believe that dmoz would not want to list a site that is against Googles guidelines and is nothing but pure spam, yet it seems that dmoz doesnt care. Whether there is a guideline in dmoz against this or not, it is a matter of ethics. I guess it is a good thing I am not a dmoz editor cause if I saw this I would not list this site, no matter if it was a competitor or not.
     
    Las Vegas Homes, Jan 26, 2006 IP
  17. EveryQuery

    EveryQuery Well-Known Member

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    #57
    Totally agree. Also wouldn't list sites that use invisible text. It's not against DMOZ policies either, but it's still a lousy thing to do.
     
    EveryQuery, Jan 26, 2006 IP
  18. Las Vegas Homes

    Las Vegas Homes Guest

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    #58
    This just goes to show the spam that dmoz allows into its directory, which is suppose to offer quality sites and the quality ODP supplies to Google.
     
    Las Vegas Homes, Jan 26, 2006 IP
    EveryQuery likes this.
  19. lmocr

    lmocr Peon

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    #59
    DMOZ doesn't follow Google's guidelines and Google doesn't follow DMOZ's guidelines. Why should an independent site be required to follow the guidelines of another independent site?
     
    lmocr, Jan 26, 2006 IP
  20. Las Vegas Homes

    Las Vegas Homes Guest

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    #60
    Couple of reasons, dmoz supplies directory listings to Google, we all know that a listing from dmoz helps with seo for Google ( no matter how much it helps ), so therefore dmoz is helping listed sites that use spam to manipulate Googles serps. It gets no simpler than that. :confused:
     
    Las Vegas Homes, Jan 26, 2006 IP