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USA, Empire Built On Terror Capitalism and Secret Coups

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by popotalk, May 13, 2011.

  1. indyonline

    indyonline Prominent Member

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    #81
    Hurry!!! I don't believe your sissy ass though lmfao! and if you did you would probably fly a plain into us not find hands down with your fist lmao again. Therefor your a sissy...
    So you would rather live in poverty, eat dirty unhealthy food, not have good educations for your children and sit back and let US charities come over there and feed, educate and provide health care and education for your kids...?
    Paid cash for mine =p
    But anyway, people work for what they want around here...
    Didn't need it to make fat money =p
    and it only takes a few years to repay the loans, not forever. Small price to pay to not live like a dirtball in a cave... worth it...

    For most but like the previous, it's worth it. I myself do residential construction for my day job and built my own house thank you =p I did finance the land but it will be paid off in 6 more years. Totally worth it.
    Simply retarded....
    WTH is that suppose to mean? Is it some terrorist lingo?
    SEMrush
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2011
    indyonline, May 17, 2011 IP
    SEMrush
  2. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #82
    LOL. Sorry but this is funny coming from someone who lives in Idaho. That is as bad as living in some shit hole in Bangladesh.
     
    gworld, May 17, 2011 IP
  3. rexertea

    rexertea Active Member

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    #83
    You Know battle is not won by how many get killed, it is won by whether the motives of the war have been fulfilled or not. America in this case was never able to fulfill its motives. History says that America lost the war. In fact, I have read quotes from high diplomatic US officials stating that they have lost the Vietnam war.

     
    rexertea, May 18, 2011 IP
  4. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #84
    One theme presented by supporters of the American empire is the U.S. military is invincible and can never lose unless stabbed in the back by impatient politicians. They claim the U.S. military never lost a battle during the entire Vietnam war. This was disputed by America's most decorated officer of that war, Col. David Hackworth, in his book "About Face." The U.S. military had every advantage, yet mistakes were made and battles lost. Internet research turns up these 20 lost battles of the Vietnam war:

    1. Attack on Da Nang - North Vietnamese Army (NVA) sappers infiltrated this airbase on July 1, 1965. They destroyed three large C-130 transport aircraft, three F-102 fighters, and damaged three more F-102s. The sappers escaped leaving behind one dead.

    2. Iron Hand Air Strikes - American aircraft had suffered losses from North Vietnamese Surface-to-Air Missile (SAM) systems. On August 13, 1965, the Navy aircraft carriers USS Coral Sea and USS Midway launched 76 low-level "Iron Hand" missions to seek out and destroy SAM sites. Five aircraft and three pilots were lost to enemy guns, and seven other planes were damaged, but no SAMs were discovered.

    3. Battle for LZ Albany - The 1st battalion of the 7th Cavalry barely survived its now famous 1965 battle in the Ia Drang valley. After saving its 1st battalion, the exhausted 2nd battalion headed for LZ Albany for an aerial extraction. It was in a long column in open terrain when it ran into a concealed NVA battalion, which attacked and shot it to pieces during a bloody battle that claimed the lives of 155 Americans, with 124 wounded.

    4. August 1967 Air Battle - This war produced two American "Ace" fighter pilots (i.e. more than five aerial kills), yet the North Vietnamese had 16, including Nguyen Van Coc (right), the top Ace of the war with nine kills. On Aug. 23, 1967, Coc led several MIG fighters to intercept a group of 40 American aircraft on a bombing mission. They shot down three American F-4D fighters and one F-105D fighter-bomber without losing a single MIG. Eight American aviators were killed or captured.

    5. Battle for Hill 861 - In 1967, Bravo Company, 1st battalion, 9th Marines went to search for caves on Hill 861. After a skirmish, the company attacked up the hill without knowing that it had encountered a large enemy force. Most of Bravo was wiped out and the survivors were pinned down until rescued by Kilo company that night.

    6. Kingfisher Battle near Con Thien - In 1967, "Operation Kingfisher" was launched to destroy NVA forces just south of the DMZ. On Sept. 21st, the 2nd battalion, 4th Marines began a "search and destroy" mission and quickly encountered the entrenched 90th NVA regiment. The Marines lacked tank support because recent rains limited road mobility, while the dense vegetation and close proximity of the enemy restricted air and artillery support. After a day-long battle, the Marines had suffered at least 16 dead and 118 wounded while trying to break out of the enemy's kill zone. The battalion withdrew at dusk, although flee may be a better term since 15 dead Marines were left behind. Details are sketchy, but the battalion didn't return to collect its dead until three weeks later. Veterans of the battle state they lost 34 KIA that day.

    7. Ambush at Hoc Mon - In 1968, 92 American soldiers of C Company, 4th Battalion, 9th Infantry Regiment, 25th Division began a search-and-destroy mission near Saigon. They were looking for a Viet Cong force that had been firing rockets into their Tan Son Nhut Air Base. As they rushed along a road without flank security to catch up with their battalion, they ran into an ambush. Within eight minutes, 49 American soldiers were dead or dying, and 29 were wounded.

    8. Battle of Kham Duc - This large Special Forces camp was abandoned as it was overrun, despite reinforcement by an American rifle company. Hundreds of friendly civilians and militiamen were left behind as Americans escaped aboard helicopters and C-130s.

    9. Battle of the Slopes - A company of American paratroopers was searching for the NVA in rough terrain when it was attacked by a large force. It suffered 76 KIA as it fled, with two platoons wiped out.

    10. Battle of Dai Do - A Marine Corps infantry battalion was mauled and forced to retreat after a disorganized attempt to dislodge a large North Vietnamese force near the DMZ. The Marines suffered 81 KIA and 397 wounded while killing hundreds of NVA. Accounts of this action are hidden within reports of operations in region of Dong Ha.

    11. Battle of Ong Thanh - After minor enemy contact the previous day, a battalion commander led some 150 American soldiers single-file into the bush to destroy the enemy. They ran into an NVA regiment with some 1400 men. Alpha company was wiped out in 20 minutes, and by sundown, 59 American soldiers lay dead with 75 wounded. An excellent documentary is on-line where survivors describe the onslaught.

    12. Battle of Two July - The 1st battalion, 9th Marines went up a road to find the NVA, and found them. Information is vague, but Bravo Company was overrun and the remnants of Alpha Company pulled back, leaving a combined 53 known dead, 190 wounded, and 34 missing.

    13. Battle for Hill 875 - or the Siege of Dak To - The 2nd battalion of the 173rd Airborne Brigade with over 300 soldiers advanced up this hill with artillery and air support. They encountered stiff resistance and suffered heavy causalities, but were shocked when the NVA counterattacked. The battalion formed a tight defensive perimeter and was surrounded while chaos ensued after a Marine Corps' jet dropped a 500 lbs bomb on their position. The brigade's 4th battalion arrived the following day and broke the siege, then advanced to secure the hill after the NVA withdrew. Of the 570 US troops involved in the attack on the hill, 340 became casualties.

    14. Battle for Firebase Mary Ann - Some 50 NVA sappers attacked at night, then slipped away. The U.S. Army suffered 33 killed and 83 wounded among the 231 soldiers at the base. Their brigade commander was relieved of duty and the firebase closed.

    15. Battle of Ngok Tavak - On May 10, 1968, an NVA battalion attacked an old French fort manned by a 150 Chinese mercenaries led by eight American Special Force troopers and three Australian advisors, plus 33 U.S. Marine Corps artillerymen with two 105mm howitzers. Helicopters flew in 45 more Marines as reinforcements and evacuated casualties during the day-long battle. The fort was overrun and everyone fled, with some literally clinging to the skids of a helicopter. At least 32 Americans were killed and several helicopters shot down. A book about this lost battle was published, and a short account is here.

    16. Battle of Lang Vei - In 1968, the NVA surprised everyone by using light tanks to overrun the well-defended U.S. Special Forces camp at Lang Vei, despite heavy American artillery and air support. Most of the 500 defending Montagnards were killed. Losses among the 24 Americans were 7 KIA, 3 POWs, and 11 wounded.

    17. Attack on Cu Chi - In February 1969, enemy commandos attacked the large U.S. Army airfield at Cu Chi. They destroyed nine large CH-47 helicopters, heavily damaged three more, and caused minor damage to two others. (photos are here) 14 Americans were killed and 29 wounded during the three-hour battle.

    18. Battle for FSB Ripcord - American Generals made one final attempt to block the Ho Chi Minh trail, and found more NVA troops than expected. As the NVA assaulted remote Fire Support Base Ripcord, Generals decided to evacuate the base. Four American battalions from the 3rd Brigade, 101st Division conducted a fighting aerial evacuation that lasted 23 days, with the loss of at least 75 American KIA and 463 wounded. Dozens of helicopters were shot down or damaged, while several soldiers and all major items of equipment were left behind.

    19. Day Three of Operation Linebacker II - Of the 99 huge B-52 bombers in this Dec. 20, 1972 bombing raid on targets around Hanoi, eight were lost to enemy fire, resulting in 36 airmen killed or captured. The Strategic Air Command (SAC) blamed the tactics utilized (flight paths, altitudes, formations, timing, etc.), which had not varied from raids the two previous days. Air Force historian Earl Tilford noted: "Years of dropping bombs on undefended jungle and the routines of planning for nuclear war had fostered a mind-set within the SAC command that nearly led to disaster."

    20. Battle of Koh Tang - This was the last battle of the war. In 1975, Khmer Rouge patrol boats seized the container ship, USS Mayaquez, which was the last American ship to leave Saigon. Surveillance indicated the ship anchored at Koh Tang island, so the U.S. Marine Corps assembled a rescue force. Most helicopters were shot up while landing Marines on the island and were disabled or crashed. The Marines faced stiff enemy resistance and were pinned down. It was then discovered that the Mayaquez crew had already been freed on a small boat, so the landing force was recalled. A total of 18 GIs were killed and 41 wounded in the rescue attempt, while 23 airmen perished in a helicopter accident during the preparation stage.

    This Myth is Now Dead


    Lost Battles of the Vietnam war

    As usual mia was talking out of his ***.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2011
    gworld, May 18, 2011 IP
  5. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #85
    You mean like Canada?

    The US had no motives. The US has political objectives that sought to stop the spread of communism. While those objectives were not realized there or then, ultimately over time they were elsewhere and at the original source.

    Its kinda hard to lose a war that never was. Perhaps you'd care to site the source of those "high diplomatic US officials"? Or site a source convincing me it was a War.

    Enjoy your 6 month ban? I know we all did.

    Maybe its time for another break?
     
    Mia, May 18, 2011 IP
  6. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #86
    Only a red neck doesn´t know that Vancouver is routinely chosen as first or second BEST CITY IN THE WORLD to live in. :rolleyes:

    But obviously it wasn´t hard to LOOSE SO MANY BATTLES in a war that never was. :rolleyes::D
     
    gworld, May 18, 2011 IP
  7. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #87
    Like you come from Vancouver as an America hating ESL guy. Vancouver is the part of Canada your folk are trying to separate from, n'cest pas? Vancouver rocks, but you wouldn't fit in well there.

    Never is an mighty long time. In this particular case, "never" lasted about 20 years. Its a bit like the North winning the US civil war, and 20 years later, slavery becomes the law of the land.
     
    Obamanation, May 18, 2011 IP
  8. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #88
    I see you have no comment about USA losing battles in Vietnam. If only the result after certain time is important, they why USA spent so much money and time to kill Bin Laden, your government only needed to wait max another 10 year before the guy dies on natural causes after all he was sick and old. :rolleyes::D
     
    gworld, May 18, 2011 IP
  9. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #89
    Interesting how the EIU is the only one that makes that claim... Every other list or survey on the subject does not list any Canadian city in the top 10. Either way, who cares.

    FYI, as previously stated, the US did not lost a single battle in Vietnam.

    You have a very skewed view of the world and history Julian. I think a lot of that comes from living in a bubble. The world is a lot bigger than you think.
     
    Mia, May 18, 2011 IP
  10. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #90
    Lets see if you can read or count. What is the number of the battles that is listed in my post that USA has lost in Vietnam? ;):D
     
    gworld, May 18, 2011 IP
  11. popotalk

    popotalk Notable Member

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    #91
    During W.W.II, the French were expelled from Vietnam by Japan, which occupied Vietnam for most of the war, until the US victory. Ho Chi Mihn and his allies assisted US army intelligence in the war against the Japanese. Ho Chi Mihn was regarded very highly by US military personnel for his commitment to freedom and liberty and for his pro-American attitudes. Ho saw, or claimed to see, the US as an anti-colonial power which would be willing to help his people gain permanent independence. At end of W.W.II, Ho Chi Mihn was strongest in the Northern part of Vietnam, which was poorer but also less "colonized." After the Japanese were defeated, speaking from the northern city of Hanoi, Ho Chi Mihn declared Vietnamese independent of French rule. At a ceremony declaring this independence, Ho quoted Thomas Jefferson while the Star Spangled Banner played and American planes flew overhead. The new Vietnamese constitution drafted by Ho was based on and strongly resembled the US Constitution. Ho declared he looked forward to intimate and friendly relations with the US. He offered the US naval bases and promised that Vietnam "will be a fertile field for American capital and enterprise".

    Ho Chi Mihn was a communist, but he was also a practical politician, interested in what was best for Vietnam. He was friendly to the US, admired much of American politics, and preferred the US to the Soviets as an ally.


    There was No War in Vietnam ?

    [​IMG]
     
    popotalk, May 18, 2011 IP
  12. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #92
    Ah, the copy/paste syndrome.

    Julian, the problem here is semantics.

    The US did indeed lose quite a few "skirmishes" with NVA/VC. Generally ambushes, not battles.

    However, the fact is, when it came down to head to head fighting the US always won.

    You live under our shield of protection, yet continue to attack the hand that guards you... Odd.
     
    Mia, May 18, 2011 IP
  13. popotalk

    popotalk Notable Member

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    #93
    Let Truth Be Told:

    Steve Watson
    Infowars.com
    Thursday, Jul 15th, 2010

    De classified Vietnam era Transcripts Show Senators Knew Gulf Of Tonkin Was A Staged False Flag Event

    Over 1,100 pages of previously classified Vietnam-era transcripts released this week by the Senate Foreign Relations Committee highlight the fact that several Senators knew that the White House and the Pentagon had deceived the American people over the 1964 Gulf of Tonkin incident.

    The latest releases, which document skepticism over the pretext for entry into the Vietnam war, date from 1968.

    Four years into the war, senators were at loggerheads with Lyndon B. Johnson. At the time Foreign Relations Committee meetings were held behind closed doors.

    It would take over thirty years for the truth to emerge that the Aug. 4, 1964 Gulf of Tonkin incident, where US warships were apparently attacked by North Vietnamese PT Boats – an incident that kicked off US involvement in the Vietnam war – was a staged event that never actually took place.


    However, the records now show that at the time senators knew this was the case.

    In a March 1968 closed session of the Foreign Relations Committee, Senator Albert Gore Sr. of Tennessee, the father of former vice president Al Gore, noted:

    “If this country has been misled, if this committee, this Congress, has been misled by pretext into a war in which thousands of young men have died, and many more thousands have been crippled for life, and out of which their country has lost prestige, moral position in the world, the consequences are very great,”

    Senator Frank Church, Democrat of Idaho, said in an executive session in February 1968:

    “In a democracy you cannot expect the people, whose sons are being killed and who will be killed, to exercise their judgment if the truth is concealed from them,”

    Other senators were keen to withhold the truth about Tonkin in order not to inflame public opinion on the war:

    Senator Mike Mansfield, Democrat of Montana, stated, “You will give people who are not interested in facts a chance to exploit them and to magnify them out of all proportion.”

    Mansfield was referring to the proposed release of a committee staff investigation that raised doubts over whether the Tonkin incident ever took place.

    The committee decided in the end to effectively conceal the truth, with Senator Church noting that if the committee came up with proof that an attack never occurred, “we have a case that will discredit the military in the United States, and discredit and quite possibly destroy the president.”

    He also noted that if the senators were to follow up on their skepticism over Tonkin, “The big forces in this country that have most of the influence and run most of the newspapers and are oriented toward the presidency will lose no opportunity to thoroughly discredit this committee.”

    Johnson used the 1964 false flag event to expand dramatically the scale of the Vietnam War by ushering in the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, as well as to rope in much needed domestic support with the Congress and public.

    Perhaps if the Foreign Relations Committee hadn’t been so afraid of “the big forces” controlling America, a large percentage of the almost 60,000 American soldiers and 2 million Vietnamese people wouldn’t have lost their lives.

    Sadly, modern day elected representatives have failed the American people in exactly the same way over the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    More On This De-Classified Transcripts
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2011
    popotalk, May 18, 2011 IP
  14. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #94
    I never made that claim. With a kill ratio of 1.1 million to 58k, why would the US losing a battle be of interest to anyone?

    Hell, why pursue any criminal, everyone dies eventually:D. Outside of the obvious flaws in that thinking, it isn't even partially true when it comes to organized crime. Boss dies, someone else steps in to fill his shoes, and the crime family grows instead of shrinks. We spend an outrageous amount of money killing off organized crime in the US on an annual basis, and I expect we will continue to spend an outrageous amount of money killing off Al Queda into the foreseable future.
     
    Obamanation, May 18, 2011 IP
  15. wwws

    wwws Notable Member

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    #95
    [​IMG]

    You still live with your parents don't you?
     
    wwws, May 18, 2011 IP
  16. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #96
    So you agree the people who say USA never lost a battle in Vietnam are stupid and are talking out of their ***, right? ;):D
     
    gworld, May 18, 2011 IP
  17. wwws

    wwws Notable Member

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    #97
    If you have the Americans as your friends, why even look for enemies at all.

    [​IMG]
     
    wwws, May 18, 2011 IP
  18. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #98
    Er, I think what he and everyone here is saying is that you are confusing battles with skirmishes and ambushes and then claiming victory for the later.

    The reality is, the US never lost a battle in Vietnam.

    Moving on...

    A picture is worth 1000 words, but only one meaning.

    Here's a fine example: http://cavemancircus.com/2009/08/03/girls-on-dating-sites-are-deceiving
     
    Mia, May 18, 2011 IP
  19. popotalk

    popotalk Notable Member

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    #99
    Hollywood Effect. Movies are Magic.
     
    popotalk, May 18, 2011 IP
  20. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #100
    No more stupid than a Quebeqois talking up Vancouver ;).
     
    Obamanation, May 18, 2011 IP