Update: US congressman takes Google to task on China

Discussion in 'Google' started by Henny, Jan 26, 2006.

  1. #1
    US congressman takes Google to task on China
    By Stephanie Kirchgaessner in Washington
    Published: January 25 2006 23:52 | Last updated: January 26 2006 04:15

    GraphicGoogle will be called to task in Washington next month following a controversial decision by the internet search engine to launch a China-based version of its website that will censor results to avoid angering the country’s Communist government.

    The decision by Chris Smith, a Republican congressman from New Jersey who chairs a House subcommittee on Human Rights, to call for a February 16 hearing to examine the operating procedures of US internet companies in China, represents the first signs of what could become a serious backlash against Google and other internet companies in Washington that are perceived as capitulating to the Chinese government.

    Mr Smith on Wednesday accused Google of “collaborating .. with persecutors” who imprison and torture Chinese citizens “in the service of truth”.

    “It is astounding that Google, whose corporate philosophy is ‘don’t be evil’ would enable evil by cooperating with China’s censorship policies just to make a buck,” he said.

    Search provider chooses less of two evils
    Click here
    The hearing will also include testimony from Yahoo, Microsoft, Cisco and senior State Department officials who advise on China.

    Mr Smith on Wednesday in a statement drew comparisons between Google and Radio Free Europe and Asia, reflecting on the capacity the radio stations had on empowering the “voices of freedom throughout Communist countries”.

    News about the congressional hearing came just hours after another lawmaker, Democratic senator Patrick Leahy, spoke out on another issue that has enveloped Google in recent days: the company’s refusal to comply with a subpeona by the Justice Department that would require it to hand over toe the government extensive records about the way people use the company’s search engine.

    In a letter to attorney general Alberto Gonzales, Mr Leahy demanded more information about four subpoenas to major internet companies, including how the DOJ intended to use the information while protecting privacy rights, and whether the DOJ planned to request further information from the companies.

    Mr Leahy, the leading Democrat on the judiciary committ
     
    Henny, Jan 26, 2006 IP
    Will.Spencer likes this.
  2. digitalpoint

    digitalpoint Overlord of no one Staff

    Messages:
    38,334
    Likes Received:
    2,613
    Best Answers:
    462
    Trophy Points:
    710
    Digital Goods:
    29
    #2
    Hehe... sounds like they are mad that Google (or other companies) are not working for the US government's agenda.

    That's one of the dumbest things I've heard of. Google is free to operate how they want, and for a congressman to think that a US company can go into another country to do business and only be bound by US laws is one of the most ignorant things I've ever heard.

    If they were my congressman, I would vote them out of office just for being stupid. :)

    Imagine if a foreign company started doing business in the US, and expected to only be bound by the laws of their homeland. hahahahaha
     
    digitalpoint, Jan 26, 2006 IP
  3. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

    Messages:
    14,789
    Likes Received:
    1,040
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    375
    #3
    Google could have chosen not to do business with Communist China.
     
    Will.Spencer, Jan 26, 2006 IP
  4. justinwp

    justinwp Peon

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    6
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #4
    why, Google will still make more information available to the the Chinese public
     
    justinwp, Jan 26, 2006 IP
  5. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

    Messages:
    14,789
    Likes Received:
    1,040
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    375
    #5
    I'm not sure that "approved propaganda" and "information" are truly synonymous.

    And does Google really make any information available? The web is right there -- with or without Google.

    Perhaps someone should make a directory of sites which have been banned by Google China?
     
    Will.Spencer, Jan 26, 2006 IP
  6. Hon Daddy Dad

    Hon Daddy Dad Peon

    Messages:
    1,041
    Likes Received:
    49
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #6
    Well I think Shawn's point is valid in that the US government has no business in this unless its a matter of national security.

    These corporations on the other hand - bending over to China's will. Its going to be a mistake over the long term. Its sets an early precentent and pattern of behavior

    Just to make an extra buck. Is it really worth it?

    China and its government will only grow more powerful. In the next 20 years it could easily be the most powerful economic force in the world.

    The chinese government over the last 30 years has killed more people than Hitler and Stalin put together.

    Do you really want these fascists having a the major influence over the world?
     
    Hon Daddy Dad, Jan 26, 2006 IP
  7. digitalpoint

    digitalpoint Overlord of no one Staff

    Messages:
    38,334
    Likes Received:
    2,613
    Best Answers:
    462
    Trophy Points:
    710
    Digital Goods:
    29
    #7
    Right... from a business standpoint, it makes sense to do business with Chinese citizens. It's a huge market that is only starting to be tapped.

    China may not be "agreeable" to the US government currently, but 20 years down the road that might not be the case. Historically, most countries that were at one point "arch enemies" of the United States are our new best friends... Germany, Japan, Russia, etc.

    If the US government doesn't want US businesses to do business with a certain country, they can easily stop it as they have done with North Korea and Iran.
     
    digitalpoint, Jan 26, 2006 IP
  8. Hon Daddy Dad

    Hon Daddy Dad Peon

    Messages:
    1,041
    Likes Received:
    49
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #8
    Well Germany and Japan are kind of different since America conquered those places enforced their laws, put military bases their and allowed those countries to prosper.

    Last year China and Russia issued a joint statement saying they would like to create a "new world order".

    China also said that if the US tried to interfere with Taiwan they would be forced to use Nuclear Weapons against the US.

    http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Chinese...an_Strait_conflict,_Beijing_downplays_comment

    At the end of the day people will die in China because their views are different to the governments. If you do business there and follow the chinese government's rules you support the chinese government by default.
     
    Hon Daddy Dad, Jan 26, 2006 IP
  9. stephenmunday

    stephenmunday Peon

    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    19
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #9
    The Internet in general and the participation of Google et al who increase the access to information on the internet in particular is a good thing for the Chinese people. Yes, right now some searches might be blocked, but still a vast new vista of information has opened up for the Chinese people that was not available 10 or 15 years ago. Some of the people growing up in this new enviroment will become the new ruling elite. This level of information access will be so natural and normal for them that they will be much more open to expanding access a little further. In other words, each generation of bureaucrats is going to become progressivley less conservative as a result.

    There is also an argument to say that Google will increase access to information in China to the benefit of the Chinese:

    1. Google's algorithms are world-class - probably better than the local Chinese search engines (although I do not know this for a fact).
    2. Google being in China means that they can index Chinese (.cn) information more effectively.
    3. Google's better algorithms will help searchers in China to find the information they need with greater precision and speed than if they used the Chinese home-grown search engines.

    So it works both ways. You could say if Google was not there it would hurt freedom of information.
     
    stephenmunday, Jan 26, 2006 IP
  10. Hon Daddy Dad

    Hon Daddy Dad Peon

    Messages:
    1,041
    Likes Received:
    49
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #10
    So are you saying that Google has to do something bad in order to do something good?
     
    Hon Daddy Dad, Jan 26, 2006 IP
  11. stephenmunday

    stephenmunday Peon

    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    19
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #11
    Simply saying that a less-than perfect compromise could have more benefit in opening up information exchange in a previously-closed society than non-participation would.

    It is a very difficult balancing game Google and the others are engaged in. Not offering a service (search results for certain keywords) is not an actively malicious act. If they were told that they had to rank communist party propaganda sites highly for particular terms, that would be an active stance to prop up a distasteful regime.

    I think the question is, are the Chinese people better off with very slightly compromised Google search results, or with no Google at all? I think the benefits are in favor of the former.
     
    stephenmunday, Jan 26, 2006 IP
  12. donttrustthisposter

    donttrustthisposter Peon

    Messages:
    1,477
    Likes Received:
    91
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #12
    WOW did you oversimplify. Germany, Japan, Russia, etc. Yeah they just grew to like us out of free trade and exchange of ideals. Now our friends, I feel all warm and fuzzy, no idea what my grandparents were talking about.:confused:

    In the last 50 years Communism has killed over 100 million people. See I can make it simple too. :p
     
    donttrustthisposter, Jan 27, 2006 IP
  13. skattabrain

    skattabrain Peon

    Messages:
    628
    Likes Received:
    18
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #13
    dp ... i'd think it fair to say they are friends with the US a result of our upperhand in several certain key situations.

    germany - world war 2
    japan - world war 2
    russia - cold war


    ps - i for one have a major problem with many people's opinion that as long as it's legal and it's business it's ok. nobody has any responsibilty anymore ... the internet and it's ability for accumulating a** loads of money fast don't help the situation.
     
    skattabrain, Jan 27, 2006 IP
  14. letas

    letas Peon

    Messages:
    267
    Likes Received:
    7
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #14
    1) And american governments how many people have killed over these 30 years?
    2) Who tells you that the current country that influnce the world is not fascist??

    Disclaimer: im not associate with any government or politic or against any country. I just dont like that people only looks into one side of the coin...
     
    letas, Jan 27, 2006 IP
  15. skattabrain

    skattabrain Peon

    Messages:
    628
    Likes Received:
    18
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #15
    you assume we look at 1 side of the coin because we don't agree with your opinion?
     
    skattabrain, Jan 27, 2006 IP
  16. letas

    letas Peon

    Messages:
    267
    Likes Received:
    7
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #16
    No!
    But when people make those kind of comments (every were in the world!) i think they dont really know on whats going on in our world (and im not saying that i know - but i would like to find out :D !!).
    Those sentecens are exactly the same as from my father heheh - and yes my father only looks at one side of the coin mostly because he dont want to see the other... ;) .
     
    letas, Jan 27, 2006 IP
  17. skattabrain

    skattabrain Peon

    Messages:
    628
    Likes Received:
    18
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #17
    listen to your father than ... he has years on you. have you ever thought that maybe he has already concluded that the other side of the coin is wrong?
     
    skattabrain, Jan 27, 2006 IP
  18. letas

    letas Peon

    Messages:
    267
    Likes Received:
    7
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #18
    heheh
    Well the diference between me and my father is that ive read alot of books about this and my father only bases is opinion in what he sees in TV/news, or better, what the TV/news gives to him.

    One of my favourite writers is Jean Ziegler. You can read this (just found it and will read in a few minutes :D ):
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0512/S00306.htm

    You can also try Noam Chomsky also a great writer.
    And you will see what im talking about :)
     
    letas, Jan 27, 2006 IP
  19. Arnie

    Arnie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,004
    Likes Received:
    116
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    105
    #19
    The govt just tries to knock on google, nothing else.
    If there were sound arguments against Googles decision, like the human right issues and others, the govt would have to make the first example and move out of China with all its business interrests and investments made.

    This is a kind of double standard they are trying to set up.
     
    Arnie, Jan 27, 2006 IP
  20. skattabrain

    skattabrain Peon

    Messages:
    628
    Likes Received:
    18
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #20
    yeah ... because it's that easy to turn the world's economy on it's ear overnight. too many americans love buying crap at walmart that's made in china ... they work for nothing, americans have a different standard off living ... and of course many hate that about us too. the effects of that shut down factories everywhere ... so it costs much more to turn out US made goods cheaply.

    the us govt would love to do that but it would cripple us this stage ... and it's only going to get worse. foriegn made products should cost twice as much in the states ... not the other way around.
     
    skattabrain, Jan 27, 2006 IP